Discussion about LED diodes

[Mars H.]

As we know, there are various kind of LED diodes. The most famous one is Samsung now. but why they become the most famous one?

Are there any other chips that are comparable to samsung? How the chips are made? how to use them correctly? How to tell the authenticity? Who will be the next samsung?

This thread is open to anything regarding LED chips. Feel free to share any of your idea.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

 

[44:86N]

I've been in the process of educating myself about led lighting (and updating my existing systems) for a while now, for multiple applications -- aquatic and horticultural, so I am all ears here, and am hoping someone can specifically address your points,

but I have been interested in Samsung's hort-lighting for a while.

Due to being a shoe-string-budget-dyi-individual (ok, I'd love to ditch the budget aspect) I am attracted by Samsung's Horticulture Module Gen2 for making my own arrays, something I have not yet accomplished.

I do appreciate the info Samsung provides, the brochure tab gives a good over view in pdf format.

https://www.samsung.com/led/lighting/applications/horticulture-lighting/

https://www.samsung.com/led/lighting/led-modules/industrial-light-module/horticulture-module-gen2/

 

[f-e]

Samsung are a name people know. It's not exactly designer gear, but it's Samsung, iphone or go home. In TV brands they are killing off Panasonic and Sony are barely any better. Everyone knows them, and that they make good LED driven products. Many people are buying pre-made lights with no understanding of the specs beyond wattage. A geek might know of Cree from flashlights, but any other name is just unknown.

Technical supremacy isn't important, where people don't understand it. Look at the phone market. People buy brands.

Samsung+Meanwell=Win

 

[Mars H.]

I've been in the process of educating myself about led lighting (and updating my existing systems) for a while now, for multiple applications -- aquatic and horticultural, so I am all ears here, and am hoping someone can specifically address your points,

but I have been interested in Samsung's hort-lighting for a while.

Due to being a shoe-string-budget-dyi-individual (ok, I'd love to ditch the budget aspect) I am attracted by Samsung's Horticulture Module Gen2 for making my own arrays, something I have not yet accomplished.

I do appreciate the info Samsung provides, the brochure tab gives a good over view in pdf format.

https://www.samsung.com/led/lighting/applications/horticulture-lighting/

https://www.samsung.com/led/lighting/led-modules/industrial-light-module/horticulture-module-gen2/

did you meant the samsung 301H version chip? your plan sounds very cool. hope you could share your own array someday here.

 

[Mars H.]

Samsung are a name people know. It's not exactly designer gear, but it's Samsung, iphone or go home. In TV brands they are killing off Panasonic and Sony are barely any better. Everyone knows them, and that they make good LED driven products. Many people are buying pre-made lights with no understanding of the specs beyond wattage. A geek might know of Cree from flashlights, but any other name is just unknown.

Technical supremacy isn't important, where people don't understand it. Look at the phone market. People buy brands.

Samsung+Meanwell=Win

haha, that is reasonable. people are more likely to buy famous brand products. Did you have a chance to learn something about bridgelux, osram, cree or epistar?

 

[f-e]

haha, that is reasonable. people are more likely to buy famous brand products. Did you have a chance to learn something about bridgelux, osram, cree or epistar?

My first branded lights, still in use today, were citizen. We have a watch brand that sounds the same, though probably isn't related. Osram are known on the supermarket shelves, but few people see them often enough to be familiar with the brand. I have some epistars I use for rooting cuttings, but like bridgelux, they seem unknown to the consumer. While Cree is the designer brand for anybody looking into the options. Quite a lot more money, for marginal improvement.

I like to buy an upper class product, but not the leading edge. I buy cars with all the toys, but not brand new. The latest cpu, after a year when it's half price. I extend a little further with my hifi, but my lights are Samsung or Osram if I have the choice. Not the ultimate in value, or the absolute best.

Them 281 0.5w samsungs look cheap, while carrying the badge. The latest one's are even quite efficient.

I will research the things I'm likely to buy. Things lower down the food chain only serve to support my decision I got good stuff. While things more costly show me I didn't get ripped off. That is how I like to think.

The stuff we are not even talking about, isn't worth talking about. The discount floodlights and leds that can't make 120 lumens per watt. The tat that gives the entire industry a bad name.


Some say I'm a bit flash, but they wear fake trainers.

 

[44:86N]

did you meant the samsung 301H version chip? your plan sounds very cool. hope you could share your own array someday here.

It's the Horticulture Module Gen2 that would work best for my application, which is setting up an array over 40' x 6' greenhouse benches.

But, a lot of those chips look good for building your own modules, which is a bit beyond my capabilities right now. Their 351 series really stands out for all stages, but yeah, those 301H's look like the whip for veg stage.

I have looked at your commercial arrays, which do look awesome for indoor grow space, but have not taken the time to see what the details are. Whose chips are you using?

Your original question is a good one. Who else is producing chips and sets?

This is a pretty good overview of their hort chips:

https://www.samsung.com/led/about-us/news-events/news/news-detail-49/

 

[44:86N]

Samsung are a name people know. It's not exactly designer gear, but it's Samsung, iphone or go home. In TV brands they are killing off Panasonic and Sony are barely any better. Everyone knows them, and that they make good LED driven products. Many people are buying pre-made lights with no understanding of the specs beyond wattage. A geek might know of Cree from flashlights, but any other name is just unknown.

Technical supremacy isn't important, where people don't understand it. Look at the phone market. People buy brands.

Samsung+Meanwell=Win

I think that's a reasonable assessment, I'm not a big fan of their phones. But, they do seem to have taken some real effort at serious research on their horticultural led lighting. I'm impressed with that line of their tech and the accessibility/quality of information they provide.

 

[Mars H.]

My first branded lights, still in use today, were citizen. We have a watch brand that sounds the same, though probably isn't related. Osram are known on the supermarket shelves, but few people see them often enough to be familiar with the brand. I have some epistars I use for rooting cuttings, but like bridgelux, they seem unknown to the consumer. While Cree is the designer brand for anybody looking into the options. Quite a lot more money, for marginal improvement.

I like to buy an upper class product, but not the leading edge. I buy cars with all the toys, but not brand new. The latest cpu, after a year when it's half price. I extend a little further with my hifi, but my lights are Samsung or Osram if I have the choice. Not the ultimate in value, or the absolute best.

Them 281 0.5w samsungs look cheap, while carrying the badge. The latest one's are even quite efficient.

I will research the things I'm likely to buy. Things lower down the food chain only serve to support my decision I got good stuff. While things more costly show me I didn't get ripped off. That is how I like to think.

The stuff we are not even talking about, isn't worth talking about. The discount floodlights and leds that can't make 120 lumens per watt. The tat that gives the entire industry a bad name.


Some say I'm a bit flash, but they wear fake trainers.

i am more likely to buy a middle end products no matter it is a phone or a TV. Quality is not the best but can meet my requirements for daily use. Most important thing is that i am more suitable for the price(poor )

the lumens is also important, but seems most of people would like to talk more about par?

 

[Mars H.]

It's the Horticulture Module Gen2 that would work best for my application, which is setting up an array over 40' x 6' greenhouse benches.

But, a lot of those chips look good for building your own modules, which is a bit beyond my capabilities right now. Their 351 series really stands out for all stages, but yeah, those 301H's look like the whip for veg stage.

I have looked at your commercial arrays, which do look awesome for indoor grow space, but have not taken the time to see what the details are. Whose chips are you using?

Your original question is a good one. Who else is producing chips and sets?

This is a pretty good overview of their hort chips:

https://www.samsung.com/led/about-us/news-events/news/news-detail-49/

i guess 351 series is not the latest led chip, it still has lens and the power of single chip is 6W. it might cause burnt issue more easily than less powerful chip.
We use a lot of chips including samsung, osram, bridgelux, . We also want to know if there are a few other chip brands. Anyone got to know some?

 

[Mars H.]

I think that's a reasonable assessment, I'm not a big fan of their phones. But, they do seem to have taken some real effort at serious research on their horticultural led lighting. I'm impressed with that line of their tech and the accessibility/quality of information they provide.

so we should call samsung chip company but not samsung phone company.

 

[f-e]

i am more likely to buy a middle end products no matter it is a phone or a TV. Quality is not the best but can meet my requirements for daily use. Most important thing is that i am more suitable for the price(poor )

the lumens is also important, but seems most of people would like to talk more about par?

Yes, it's only with that low end stuff (that we should ignore) that lumen per watt holds any meaning. Most of that rubbish is 1000w watts (100w actual) and as such, is rubbish. Sometimes a floodlight seller will give you lumens per watt. That seller is probably being honest, but still can't tell you want brand LED was used, or it's PAR output. A detail missing from most catalogues that will sell you reels of them. Those warehouse lights just don't carry horticultural specifications. Lumens per Watt is all we are getting told.

Obviously anything from Mars is not in that category. I'm talking of the rubbish that thinks lumens per watt is enough information. While even worse, we have the total rip-off 1000w lights for $50 that won't tell you anything else. Two distinct categories of light, that exist below the entry level of reasonable lighting.

 

[Mars H.]

Yes, it's only with that low end stuff (that we should ignore) that lumen per watt holds any meaning. Most of that rubbish is 1000w watts (100w actual) and as such, is rubbish. Sometimes a floodlight seller will give you lumens per watt. That seller is probably being honest, but still can't tell you want brand LED was used, or it's PAR output. A detail missing from most catalogues that will sell you reels of them. Those warehouse lights just don't carry horticultural specifications. Lumens per Watt is all we are getting told.

Obviously anything from Mars is not in that category. I'm talking of the rubbish that thinks lumens per watt is enough information. While even worse, we have the total rip-off 1000w lights for $50 that won't tell you anything else. Two distinct categories of light, that exist below the entry level of reasonable lighting.

we always get what we pay for. I always pay more attention to the product specifications before i pay for it.

 

[Mars H.]

Anyone had experience with philips chips? compared to samsung, which do you think is better?

 

[Ipotato]

I bought a very cheap light from a floodlight manufacturer recently branching off into grow lights they made their own (or so I think) diodes. 150w light had 756 diodes including IR. The par map blows pretty much anything under 100 bucks out of the water (2x2). It cost me 69 bucks with delivery. Im pretty sure my plants are happy

 

[f-e]

Anyone had experience with philips chips? compared to samsung, which do you think is better?

From what I can see, Philips teamed with HP in 1990 to form lumiled, then bought out HP in 2005 (well an HP spin off, agilent). Then sold 80% to Apollo, so the brand is now just Lumiled. They source from a few places, but also claim to be the only people actually making horticultural lights, from parts made for horticultural use. They actually develop the phosphors needed to make the LEDs which says to me Philips are still in there somewhere. Though I'm not sure the website speaks of them.

Trying to buy a reel of Philips smd led's seems futile. I just get old Philips Lumiled links. Mouser may have some but won't load for me.

Philips did make those nice Luxion LEDs when Lumiled.

It's all a little cloudy. To be honest, I don't see there name on many semiconductors these days. A branch does deal with electronic components specifically, but long gone are the days when nearly every TV had a Philips jungle of some sort.

 

[f-e]

I bought a very cheap light from a floodlight manufacturer recently branching off into grow lights they made their own (or so I think) diodes. 150w light had 756 diodes including IR. The par map blows pretty much anything under 100 bucks out of the water (2x2). It cost me 69 bucks with delivery. Im pretty sure my plants are happy

It's so hard to believe a spec sheet at this end of the market. The best strategy here isn't to hope your product can stand out through reviews. It's simply to lie. Knowing few people will test a light with a light meter worth 3 times more.
If it's an honest product, then 50 cents a Watt is nice, when you are not having to buy 600 of them. It's probably a bit too nice. Like the figure of 2.01 is just a bit too close to the tipping point of opinion.

It is possible, but they would have to be quite decent LED's paired with a terribly cheap driver.
Does your radio still work?

Edit: The use of 4x4 grid testing is interesting. It looks like the door is open. If you seriously tested and saw that, you would edge the light forward and go again. This looks more like a maths exercise than testing.
Edit2: There seems to be some physics issues with the top corners. I believe this chart is made up.

 

[Ipotato]

It's so hard to believe a spec sheet at this end of the market. The best strategy here isn't to hope your product can stand out through reviews. It's simply to lie. Knowing few people will test a light with a light meter worth 3 times more.
If it's an honest product, then 50 cents a Watt is nice, when you are not having to buy 600 of them. It's probably a bit too nice. Like the figure of 2.01 is just a bit too close to the tipping point of opinion.

It is possible, but they would have to be quite decent LED's paired with a terribly cheap driver.
Does your radio still work?

Edit: The use of 4x4 grid testing is interesting. It looks like the door is open. If you seriously tested and saw that, you would edge the light forward and go again. This looks more like a maths exercise than testing.
Edit2: There seems to be some physics issues with the top corners. I believe this chart is made up.

Oh I don't want to get into an argument I am just saying that lots of cheap diodes can do same or better job than few expensive ones. Besides i doubt Shane from Migro would make up a fake test for a pretty unknown company that is competing with his won. (they added a variant with a dimmer instead of wi-fi controls which is the one i bought)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxJqqRzabRI

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Cheap diodes are cheap for a reason. You may get the same output but you will not have longevity.


Powerful, Cheap, Reliable, Reality allows you to pick TWO!

Cheap and powerful will not be reliable.

Cheap and reliable will not be powerful.

Powerful and reliable is never cheap.