When I had 3 1st generation Lumatek ballasts in my foil lined room, I walked around the outside of my room carrying an AM radio. No interference. That's because I had "...the ideal Faraday cage, which is a continuous sheet of metal." It's not the only way, but it works. -granger
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Digi Ballasts and RFI
- Thread starter Aheadatime
- Start date
I had trouble with my cable provider when using a electronic ballast.
A guy showed up saying my house was making noise.
Since then I found out if your cable provider is a FIOS network electronic ballast will caused no interference.
At the time I had a hard wire cable provider.
I since changed.
I also got one of these ballast it says very low RFI interferences.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/1...OW777dash777902220&site=www.bing_shopping.com
Ratz
A guy showed up saying my house was making noise.
Since then I found out if your cable provider is a FIOS network electronic ballast will caused no interference.
At the time I had a hard wire cable provider.
I since changed.
I also got one of these ballast it says very low RFI interferences.
https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/1...OW777dash777902220&site=www.bing_shopping.com
Ratz
Midwest sticky
Resident Smartass & midget connoisseur
Never mind.
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[This thread has been cleaned up. I was responding to someone else who had trashed everybody, and has since had his posts removed. I wasn't addressing Midwest sticky -granger].
What's wrong with you, einstein? Were you protecting the young when you told everyone to use a faraday cage as the only way? -granger
Here's the article you mentioned.
07 October 2010
About electromagnetic interference
Posted in Technical papers
..and how to avoid it!
One of the problems using remote ballasts is the electromagnetic interference it can produce. There are very simple ways of avoiding this.
Modern electronic ballasts operate at high frequencies. Working with high frequency equipment can cause electromagnetic interference which can be not only a nuisance but in some cases also a security or safety hazard.
EMI can only happen if the source of the high frequency is not shielded. Remote ballasts are shielded by a metal housing which is connected to earth and the reflector terminal should be shielded as well, but the leads from a remote ballast to a lamp are not shielded. Using shielded cable would in many cases cause problems powering your lamps, so unschielded wire is used for the connection to your lamp. This unshielded wire is the cause of the most problems as it acts like an antenna. So, if you use electronic high frequency ballasts we recommend to keep the leads to the lamp from the ballast as short as possible and install the ballast as close to the lamp as possible.
As our ballasts are solid state and sealed they are safe to use in the growing environment you can mount them near the lamps. The heat dissipation of the electronic ballast is vvery little compared to the lamp and will not reach your plants as it is convection heat. Out Pro 600 ballast for example only dissipates about 35 watts of heat. A HPS lamp generates about 70-75% heat and only 25-30% usable light. In the example of the 600 watt Pro 600 the lamp would account for more than 420 watt of dissipated heat. The ballast adds less than 8% to that. As a rule of thumb you can add about 5-10% of cooling to your room to maintain the same climate with the ballasts installed inside your grow room.
To further eliminate any EMI we recommend to use integrated fixtures as you have no leads between the ballast and the reflector as the ballast is integrated in the fixture. The only disadvantage you might have using an integrated fixture it that you need about 15 cm more height to accomodate the full fixture compared to a remote reflector.Remember we have professional installation of more than 12,000 fixtures on one location. If there would be any EMI those sites would be as powerful as a large radio station. We can assure you they are not.
So, to eliminate EMI there are a few solutions:
1. Best option: Use integrated fixtures. This will eliminate EMI caused by lamp leads
2. If using remote ballasts: keep the leads as short as possible
Our Pro line ballasts operate on 240V. Double the voltage means half the amps! Your mains leads can be much thinner than the leads you would have to use for a remote reflector. So using full fixtures or remote ballasts close to your lamps makes it a lot easier to wire. You can connect more than one ballast on one lead and switch those with a high power contacter.
What's wrong with you, einstein? Were you protecting the young when you told everyone to use a faraday cage as the only way? -granger
Here's the article you mentioned.
07 October 2010
About electromagnetic interference
Posted in Technical papers
..and how to avoid it!
One of the problems using remote ballasts is the electromagnetic interference it can produce. There are very simple ways of avoiding this.
Modern electronic ballasts operate at high frequencies. Working with high frequency equipment can cause electromagnetic interference which can be not only a nuisance but in some cases also a security or safety hazard.
EMI can only happen if the source of the high frequency is not shielded. Remote ballasts are shielded by a metal housing which is connected to earth and the reflector terminal should be shielded as well, but the leads from a remote ballast to a lamp are not shielded. Using shielded cable would in many cases cause problems powering your lamps, so unschielded wire is used for the connection to your lamp. This unshielded wire is the cause of the most problems as it acts like an antenna. So, if you use electronic high frequency ballasts we recommend to keep the leads to the lamp from the ballast as short as possible and install the ballast as close to the lamp as possible.
As our ballasts are solid state and sealed they are safe to use in the growing environment you can mount them near the lamps. The heat dissipation of the electronic ballast is vvery little compared to the lamp and will not reach your plants as it is convection heat. Out Pro 600 ballast for example only dissipates about 35 watts of heat. A HPS lamp generates about 70-75% heat and only 25-30% usable light. In the example of the 600 watt Pro 600 the lamp would account for more than 420 watt of dissipated heat. The ballast adds less than 8% to that. As a rule of thumb you can add about 5-10% of cooling to your room to maintain the same climate with the ballasts installed inside your grow room.
To further eliminate any EMI we recommend to use integrated fixtures as you have no leads between the ballast and the reflector as the ballast is integrated in the fixture. The only disadvantage you might have using an integrated fixture it that you need about 15 cm more height to accomodate the full fixture compared to a remote reflector.Remember we have professional installation of more than 12,000 fixtures on one location. If there would be any EMI those sites would be as powerful as a large radio station. We can assure you they are not.
So, to eliminate EMI there are a few solutions:
1. Best option: Use integrated fixtures. This will eliminate EMI caused by lamp leads
2. If using remote ballasts: keep the leads as short as possible
Our Pro line ballasts operate on 240V. Double the voltage means half the amps! Your mains leads can be much thinner than the leads you would have to use for a remote reflector. So using full fixtures or remote ballasts close to your lamps makes it a lot easier to wire. You can connect more than one ballast on one lead and switch those with a high power contacter.
St. Phatty
Active member
http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/item/about-electromagnetic-interference.html
"The heat dissipation of the electronic ballast is very little compared to the lamp and will not reach your plants as it is convection heat."
?
are they saying that plants only see radiative or conductive heat ?
Convection heat (heat through the air) definitely gets to the plant - depending on air-flows.
>> EMI caused by lamp leads
for example ... if you wound the leads around a bucket of water (like you would wrap wire around a nail to make an electro-magnet - but the goal here it to dissipate EMI) If it is coils plural, even better. Some of that RF will dissipate in the water.
I disagree with Gavitas (I think) about shielding the leads. At 60 Hz it (shielding) is a very common practice, same if the ballast - lamp umbilical uses a higher freq. like 400.
EMI shielding ... I spent about a 1/3 of my 24 years in corp. America doing just that. It goes from real sloppy (winding metal tape around wires) to Real Exacting & Expensive (once bought a Tempest Macintosh from Lockheed - from a secure area - they shielded everything, even the mouse & keyboard cables.)
If a wire-acting-as-an-antenna problem came up in most meeting I've been in, one common response would be, "Christ wrap the fvcking wires".
Or, "hey let's design it as a shielded rigid-flex" (like your cell-phone) ... would not be surprised to see a lamp manufacturer re-do their lamp umbilical using rigid flex.
"The heat dissipation of the electronic ballast is very little compared to the lamp and will not reach your plants as it is convection heat."
?
are they saying that plants only see radiative or conductive heat ?
Convection heat (heat through the air) definitely gets to the plant - depending on air-flows.
>> EMI caused by lamp leads
for example ... if you wound the leads around a bucket of water (like you would wrap wire around a nail to make an electro-magnet - but the goal here it to dissipate EMI) If it is coils plural, even better. Some of that RF will dissipate in the water.
I disagree with Gavitas (I think) about shielding the leads. At 60 Hz it (shielding) is a very common practice, same if the ballast - lamp umbilical uses a higher freq. like 400.
EMI shielding ... I spent about a 1/3 of my 24 years in corp. America doing just that. It goes from real sloppy (winding metal tape around wires) to Real Exacting & Expensive (once bought a Tempest Macintosh from Lockheed - from a secure area - they shielded everything, even the mouse & keyboard cables.)
If a wire-acting-as-an-antenna problem came up in most meeting I've been in, one common response would be, "Christ wrap the fvcking wires".
Or, "hey let's design it as a shielded rigid-flex" (like your cell-phone) ... would not be surprised to see a lamp manufacturer re-do their lamp umbilical using rigid flex.
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Everyone in this thread, please consider the frequencies and voltages, amps a ballast is pushing thru wires and do some maths.
Alu foil maybe helps in some cases but I highly doubt it would help in a grow setup with a digi ballast at high frequencies.
Winding wires is even worse, makes strong magnetic fields, additional heat and big losses of current.
Peace
Alu foil maybe helps in some cases but I highly doubt it would help in a grow setup with a digi ballast at high frequencies.
Winding wires is even worse, makes strong magnetic fields, additional heat and big losses of current.
Peace
Yes Granger, I speak out of intuition based on physics theory.
Never had a ballast as my lights run on DC, so no way to test this, sorry.
Digi ballasts operate on much lower frequencies than mobile phones, so don't expect your phone to be a relevant indicator of RF band leaks.
In my opinion a much better way to stop RF is to have reinforced concrete walls.
Good luck with your digital ballasts
Never had a ballast as my lights run on DC, so no way to test this, sorry.
Digi ballasts operate on much lower frequencies than mobile phones, so don't expect your phone to be a relevant indicator of RF band leaks.
In my opinion a much better way to stop RF is to have reinforced concrete walls.
Good luck with your digital ballasts
I wasn't relating cell phone reception to RFI. Someone commented earlier about a foil lined room screwing up cell phone reception. I was pointing out that I still get good reception while inside my grounded foil lined room.
How thick would you say the reinforced concrete walls would have to be?
As I said earlier, I walked around the outside of my room with an AM radio and got no interference. This was proof to me. Others can do as they wish. Ten years of operation with no complaints from neighbors, no cable guys coming to my door, etc., no reception problems of my own with TV/cable, wifi, radio. Good luck all. -granger
How thick would you say the reinforced concrete walls would have to be?
As I said earlier, I walked around the outside of my room with an AM radio and got no interference. This was proof to me. Others can do as they wish. Ten years of operation with no complaints from neighbors, no cable guys coming to my door, etc., no reception problems of my own with TV/cable, wifi, radio. Good luck all. -granger
One of the best ways to eliminate RFI is to use shielded SO cable or if you have a bigger grow, there is insulated flexible conduit. Recently did an installation upgrade for an MMAR with 40 lights and had to install shielded flex conduit. We ran 12AWG THHN stranded conductors through the conduit to gang-boxes. The gang-boxes had female lamp receptacles installed so the shades could be plugged in instead of hard-wired. Check the links;
http://www.electriflex.com/products/emirfi.asp
http://www.tnb.ca/en/pdf-catalogues...e-conduit/flexible-conduit-shielding-core.pdf
There is also RFI shielded SO an SJ cable.
http://www.electriflex.com/products/emirfi.asp
http://www.tnb.ca/en/pdf-catalogues...e-conduit/flexible-conduit-shielding-core.pdf
There is also RFI shielded SO an SJ cable.
