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Difference between 110/120v and 220/240v receptacles?
- Thread starter clowntown
- Start date
In real simple terms, electricity is generated in a wave that looks like the side view of a coil spring. In the USA, if you take electricity from one of the long sides of the spring (wave), you have single-phase 110/125 volt. You can run as many wires as you want from this leg, hook them all together and you will still have only 110/125 volts. You will never get 240v out of it.
If you take power from both sides of the spring/wave, you will have two separate 110/125v circuits. Combining a wire from each circuit will give you a 240v circuit. This is two-phase electrical and is the common installation in most U.S. households.
If you take power from both sides and the middle of the wave, you now have three-phase power. This can be used in various combinations to produce various voltage ratings.
As far your receptacle question goes - the 120v, 20 amp receptacles will work with two lights per receptacle. 2,000 watts @240 volts is only 8.3 amps, so, no problem. If you do go that route, it's a good idea to take a Sharpie and write "240 volts" on each receptacle or cover. That goes a long way in preventing accidents.
Good luck with your project!
PC
If you take power from both sides of the spring/wave, you will have two separate 110/125v circuits. Combining a wire from each circuit will give you a 240v circuit. This is two-phase electrical and is the common installation in most U.S. households.
If you take power from both sides and the middle of the wave, you now have three-phase power. This can be used in various combinations to produce various voltage ratings.
As far your receptacle question goes - the 120v, 20 amp receptacles will work with two lights per receptacle. 2,000 watts @240 volts is only 8.3 amps, so, no problem. If you do go that route, it's a good idea to take a Sharpie and write "240 volts" on each receptacle or cover. That goes a long way in preventing accidents.
Good luck with your project!
PC
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Y
yamaha_1fan
I have always heard you can use the 120 outlets for 240. As you said, it seems to be the plug type and to avoid confusion. I cant confirm this but I have heard it many times here and I dont think anyone has said no.
PC just curious, how do you get the 3rd phase? I assume our home panels are two phase. I also assume I cant get 3 phase in my house unless I got the power company to do something special and bring in an extra line? I have no need for it, but since you had to go and get all technical about 3-phase, I figured I'd ask
PC just curious, how do you get the 3rd phase? I assume our home panels are two phase. I also assume I cant get 3 phase in my house unless I got the power company to do something special and bring in an extra line? I have no need for it, but since you had to go and get all technical about 3-phase, I figured I'd ask
PharmaCan, your answer confirmed my thoughts. But:
With this reasoning, I got single-outlet 125v/15a receptacles (rather than getting dual-outlet receptacles and not using the second one) just to play it safe.
I'm running 10/2 between the breaker and the timer (Intermatic T104), I'm running 12/2 since it's only drawing at most 5a... that's OK, right?
Is there a better way to wire up the four receptacles other than inserting four sets of wire through four knockouts?
In a /2 (or any 220v) setup, does it matter which pole of the breaker the black goes into, and which one the white goes into? And likewise, in a multi-receptacle setup, does it matter which screw (bronze or silver) the black or white go to?
A 125/15a receptacle is the equivalent of 250/7.5a, no? Drawing 8.3a on 7.5a can't be good, could it? Even if it were 125/20a, it'd be the equivalent of 250/10a, and meaning having >80% load... or do I have this voltage/amperage thing confused?PharmaCan said:
With this reasoning, I got single-outlet 125v/15a receptacles (rather than getting dual-outlet receptacles and not using the second one) just to play it safe.
I'm running 10/2 between the breaker and the timer (Intermatic T104), I'm running 12/2 since it's only drawing at most 5a... that's OK, right?
Is there a better way to wire up the four receptacles other than inserting four sets of wire through four knockouts?
I'm pretty clueless with electrical, but I think a 3-phase 220 will require you to have a 10/3 (or other gauge 3-wire + ground) wire, the extra wire being red. I believe the black & red are used as hot, and white as neutral in a /3 setup. In a /2 setup, I believe both black & white are hot.yamaha_1fan said:PC just curious, how do you get the 3rd phase? I assume our home panels are two phase. I also assume I cant get 3 phase in my house unless I got the power company to do something special and bring in an extra line? I have no need for it, but since you had to go and get all technical about 3-phase, I figured I'd ask
In a /2 (or any 220v) setup, does it matter which pole of the breaker the black goes into, and which one the white goes into? And likewise, in a multi-receptacle setup, does it matter which screw (bronze or silver) the black or white go to?
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I
impeachme2
Yes, you can use 120V receptacles/plugs with 240V. If anything, it is better for 240V since you are running less current through them.
HumanPheno
Member
Small mistake there.... it is not 250 volt/7.5amps... it is 240volts/15amps (actually 16 amp fuses are standard many places in europe) So in princip you can run twice as much electric equipment on 1 circuit in Europe compared to the US.
Peace...
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pro engineer
Member
All
The internals parts and the thermoplastics of 125 volts vs 250 volts are the same. In fact most residential wire (romex) and receptacles can handle a short spike of 600 volts. All receptacles have a NEMA designation number for example:
2-pole 3 wire grounding 125 volts
NEMA # 5-15R used on 15 amp circuit breakers
NEMA # 5-20R used on 20 amp circuit breakers
NEMA # 5-30R used on 30 amp circuit breakers
2 pole 3 wire grounding 250 volts
NEMA # 6-15R used on 15 amp circuit breakers
NEMA # 6-20R used on 20 amp circuit breakers
NEMA # 6-30R used on 30 amp circuit breakers
Always use the correct receptacle!!!
Even low voltage can KILL!!!
If you're doing your own electric work pick up a copy of (Ugly Electrical References Pocket Book) at HD or Lowes. Be safe.....
The internals parts and the thermoplastics of 125 volts vs 250 volts are the same. In fact most residential wire (romex) and receptacles can handle a short spike of 600 volts. All receptacles have a NEMA designation number for example:
2-pole 3 wire grounding 125 volts
NEMA # 5-15R used on 15 amp circuit breakers
NEMA # 5-20R used on 20 amp circuit breakers
NEMA # 5-30R used on 30 amp circuit breakers
2 pole 3 wire grounding 250 volts
NEMA # 6-15R used on 15 amp circuit breakers
NEMA # 6-20R used on 20 amp circuit breakers
NEMA # 6-30R used on 30 amp circuit breakers
Always use the correct receptacle!!!
Even low voltage can KILL!!!
If you're doing your own electric work pick up a copy of (Ugly Electrical References Pocket Book) at HD or Lowes. Be safe.....
Yamaha_1fan - The third phase has to come from the power company and it has to go into a special three-phase panel. I think, but I'm not sure, that the PowCo can grab the third phase from the hearest transformer.
Clowntown - Volts are volts and amps are amps. You can't go cattywhampus with the math the way you did.
I'll try to make this simple again - your cord end/plug has two prongs. With 120v, electricity is going into your appliance via one prong, the other prong takes the small amount of unused electricity back to ground to complete the circuit. With 240v, both prongs are carrying electricity into the appliance where it is all used (hence no need for a neutral). Two prongs can carry twice the electricity that one prong can, so you can double the load with 240v vs 120v.
The ratings that you see on electrical stuff is based on how much current you can pass through the conductor (wire, prong, tab, what-have-you) before it gets too hot.
I don't understand your question about the knockouts.
HumanPheno - I have no idea how power is delivered in Europe, but here in the U.S. it comes in 110 volts to 125 volts. To get 240 volts, we combine two 120 volt lines. But, the 120 volt line voltage fluctuates from area to area and from time to time, so the actual voltage in a 240v circuit will vary from 220 volts to 250 volts.
PC
Clowntown - Volts are volts and amps are amps. You can't go cattywhampus with the math the way you did.
I'll try to make this simple again - your cord end/plug has two prongs. With 120v, electricity is going into your appliance via one prong, the other prong takes the small amount of unused electricity back to ground to complete the circuit. With 240v, both prongs are carrying electricity into the appliance where it is all used (hence no need for a neutral). Two prongs can carry twice the electricity that one prong can, so you can double the load with 240v vs 120v.
The ratings that you see on electrical stuff is based on how much current you can pass through the conductor (wire, prong, tab, what-have-you) before it gets too hot.
I don't understand your question about the knockouts.
HumanPheno - I have no idea how power is delivered in Europe, but here in the U.S. it comes in 110 volts to 125 volts. To get 240 volts, we combine two 120 volt lines. But, the 120 volt line voltage fluctuates from area to area and from time to time, so the actual voltage in a 240v circuit will vary from 220 volts to 250 volts.
PC
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pro engineer
Member
Common electrical distribution systems used in North America.
120/240 volt single phase three wire system.
Line one = 120 volt ungrounded conductor colored BLACK.
Line two = 120 volt ungrounded conductor colored RED.
Grounded neutral conductor colored WHITE or GRAY.
Two- 120 volt legs give you 240 volt single phase.
The above covers 90% of America homes.
Some very large homes have.
120/240 volt three phase four wire system (Delta High Leg)
"A" phase ungrounded conductor colored BLACK.
"B" phase ungrounded conductor colored ORANGE or tagged (High Leg)
"C" phase ungrounded conductor colored RED
Grounded conductor colored WHITE or GRAY (Center Tap)
Note: Ungrounded conductors colors may be other then shown above see local ordinances or specifications.
I know an electrician who got into some 13.500 volt 3 phase it blew his arm and leg clean off he lived. Be safe..........
PE
120/240 volt single phase three wire system.
Line one = 120 volt ungrounded conductor colored BLACK.
Line two = 120 volt ungrounded conductor colored RED.
Grounded neutral conductor colored WHITE or GRAY.
Two- 120 volt legs give you 240 volt single phase.
The above covers 90% of America homes.
Some very large homes have.
120/240 volt three phase four wire system (Delta High Leg)
"A" phase ungrounded conductor colored BLACK.
"B" phase ungrounded conductor colored ORANGE or tagged (High Leg)
"C" phase ungrounded conductor colored RED
Grounded conductor colored WHITE or GRAY (Center Tap)
Note: Ungrounded conductors colors may be other then shown above see local ordinances or specifications.
I know an electrician who got into some 13.500 volt 3 phase it blew his arm and leg clean off he lived. Be safe..........
PE
ive never heard of a residential dwelling having 3 phase service, but i havent been all over the world, so it could happen.
never seen it in my day.
the grounded conductor (neutral) will always be white on a 240/120 service.
it is only marked grey @ 480/277v, but that is commercial application.
as far as 15a @120 turning into 7.5a @ 240, doesnt work like that.
still is whatever the breaker rating is on BOTH hot legs.
reason people run @ 240v, is to save money on install.
you can get twice as much load off a 240v circuit than 120v
but you will still be using the same amount of power. 1000w is a 1000w at any voltage.
only way you save money is by keeping the loads on youir service equal on both hot phases.
this keeps you more efficient, efficiency will save you a slight bit on the bill.
unbalanced loads make the system work harder.
never seen it in my day.
the grounded conductor (neutral) will always be white on a 240/120 service.
it is only marked grey @ 480/277v, but that is commercial application.
as far as 15a @120 turning into 7.5a @ 240, doesnt work like that.
still is whatever the breaker rating is on BOTH hot legs.
reason people run @ 240v, is to save money on install.
you can get twice as much load off a 240v circuit than 120v
but you will still be using the same amount of power. 1000w is a 1000w at any voltage.
only way you save money is by keeping the loads on youir service equal on both hot phases.
this keeps you more efficient, efficiency will save you a slight bit on the bill.
unbalanced loads make the system work harder.
G
Guest
clowntown said:
120v plugs and receptacles are usually polar in that one prong is wider than the other.
This is a bad place to try and cut corners as it will only cost you a few dollars to do it proper. Just go out out and buy the 240v power cords and a couple NEMA 6-20rs and be done with it. It's like, what...$10/ballast power cord and $3/ NEMA 6-20r so you're only looking at $50 out of pocket expenses.
What is the significance of the NEMA ratings (5 vs 6)? I've already wired the 125v/15a receptacles, and wondering if it's really necessary to get the 250v cords/receptacles. As far as one prong being wider, that's not the case with these power cords and with 220's since they will always have ground... right? 
pro engineer
Member
CF
Very large homes or should I say mansions have 3 phase power its mostly used to power the AC units. Years ago we did a house that had a 60 ton chiller in the basement. You be surprise what the ruling elite have in there homes.
PE
Very large homes or should I say mansions have 3 phase power its mostly used to power the AC units. Years ago we did a house that had a 60 ton chiller in the basement. You be surprise what the ruling elite have in there homes.
PE
G
Guest
NEMA 5 series are 125v, NEMA 6 series are 250v.
If you're running 120v, you don't need the 240v power cords. You have to match the voltage across all the components. Please tell me you're not trying to run 240v of those 120v receptacles.
If you're running 120v, you don't need the 240v power cords. You have to match the voltage across all the components. Please tell me you're not trying to run 240v of those 120v receptacles.
I am. But again, my question is: is the ONLY difference between the 125v and 250v receptacles the physical orientation of the slots, and both non-ground screws being bronze instead of silver and bronze? From what I can gather, it looks and sounds like it... and pro engineer seems to be confirming it.Even_Steven said:
If that's the case, why go out of my way to buy $50 (I'm really, really short on money) worth of stuff? As long as I am fully aware that these outlets are 240v (and marked), what's the difference?
pro engineer
Member
CT
The NEMA series # 5 are rated for 125 volts the # 6 is rated for 250 volts.
I hate to see you accidently plug 125 volt item into a receptacle you have wired for 250 volts. You may get the surprise of a life time. If you don't what to use the correct receptacles just hard wire them to a J-box it's a lot safer.
Safety First
PE
The NEMA series # 5 are rated for 125 volts the # 6 is rated for 250 volts.
I hate to see you accidently plug 125 volt item into a receptacle you have wired for 250 volts. You may get the surprise of a life time. If you don't what to use the correct receptacles just hard wire them to a J-box it's a lot safer.
Safety First
PE
bobs your uncle
Member
This question hasn't been answered, and is very important:
Yes it does matter! insofar as you do not put the white (neutral) wire into a breaker. The neutral (white) is connected to the neutral bus bar inside the panel box. Only hot (red and black) wires are connected to breakers!
The bronze screw is always hot (red or black) and the nickel (silver) screw is always neutral.
I second what pro engineer and even steven stated above, use the correct power cords and receptacles. I wired up 120v receptacles to 220v and clearly marked them "220v only" with a sharpie, knowing I was going to be the only one plugging anything into them. It didn't take too long for me to fuck up and plug a 120v cord into that 220v receptacle even though it was clearly marked and away from other 120v receptacles and I was the only one that would ever be using it.
Clown, you don't seem like the type a guy to cut corners like that, at least not with something as important and/or dangerous as electrical.
I'm a certified "Master MacGyver", I have a hard time not modifying things. But I don't mess with electrical.
Yes it does matter! insofar as you do not put the white (neutral) wire into a breaker. The neutral (white) is connected to the neutral bus bar inside the panel box. Only hot (red and black) wires are connected to breakers!
The bronze screw is always hot (red or black) and the nickel (silver) screw is always neutral.
I second what pro engineer and even steven stated above, use the correct power cords and receptacles. I wired up 120v receptacles to 220v and clearly marked them "220v only" with a sharpie, knowing I was going to be the only one plugging anything into them. It didn't take too long for me to fuck up and plug a 120v cord into that 220v receptacle even though it was clearly marked and away from other 120v receptacles and I was the only one that would ever be using it.
Clown, you don't seem like the type a guy to cut corners like that, at least not with something as important and/or dangerous as electrical.
I'm a certified "Master MacGyver", I have a hard time not modifying things. But I don't mess with electrical.
G
Guest
Okay okay, when running 240v with 12-2, the black and white wires are hot and as such it doesn't matter which pole they are connected to at the breaker as they each carry 120v. It is a good idea to mark the end of the white wire with black tape to indicate hot.
The idea of hard-wiring the cord seams much safer. Strip the plug, splice, and cap and you should be good to go. Running 240v off the 120v receptacle is so twisted I can't find anything on the net about anyone having tried this.
The idea of hard-wiring the cord seams much safer. Strip the plug, splice, and cap and you should be good to go. Running 240v off the 120v receptacle is so twisted I can't find anything on the net about anyone having tried this.
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bobs your uncle
Member
Again, clown you surprise me. I mean, you already know the answer to your question. Are looking for someone to say it's ok?
A lot of peeps read your great DIY threads and your cost cutting tips. And because of that, you have a responsibility to steer them straight in all thing electrical.
Re-read that quote of yours above. I would of thought you would be the first person to say "if you can't afford to do it safely then don't do it"
