Did i burned my clones?

[idontsmoke]

Hello all, need your expertise on this.

These are right after spraying with water.

And when dry...

Clones are 7 days old in these pictures. They first showed symptoms on day 6.
They are in good, all organic, potting soil, w/out chemical ferts pre-mixed in and perlite, 70:30 ratio.
I dont water the dirt directly, just spray the clones with water and use dome that is raised on one side to let the air circulate a little bit.
They were droopy on the fourth day when i thought there's no need for dome anymore, so i put it back.

Both clones are from same plant, and there are two more clones taken the same day, in same soil, in same conditions and they dont show any symptoms yet, which makes me think it's some sort of disease.
I used clean razor blade and alcohol between and before the cuts.
Nute burn starts from tips first, so it cant be that?

Every suggestion greatly appreciated.

 

[EvilTwin]

ids...
Do you mean 7 days from being cut from the clome Mother? And you planted them into soil. I think you need to get the dome off and quit spraying them. they clearly have an infection and it's probably too late. I suspect that they'll die.

I doubt that it's nute burn because those little ones probably don't have enough roots to absorb enough nutes to get nute burn. (did I really write that sentence?)

Have you been cloning this way for awhile...or is this your first attempt? Never seen anybody clone quite that way.

Dry them off...sheesh, I don't know what else to tell you.
ET

 

[idontsmoke]

Hey ET

They have been cut 7 days ago and put in the soil right away.
That's how my grandma used to do it with the flowers, and thats the way i've seen
some people do it here.
First attempt at cloning here... not so great so far
I have two more clones from another plant that are doing good.

This is basically a test run to get my voodoo skills and test few methods.
I have two more clones in turface/perlite mix and two in cup of water.

Ill go now and mourn the death of clones

 

[EvilTwin]

iDon't Smoke,
Ya, dude, I assumed it was your first time. The reason I figured they would die is that most likely the brown color is an indication of an infection in the stem that's moving upward.

There are quite a few good cloning tutorials here...as well as general cloning threads. Use the advanced search mode and you'll find lots to read.

I'm not saying that you can't clone on soil...but taking a more conventional approach will give you better results.

Do you have any peat pucks? Or do you know what they are? They're flat compressed disks of peat inside a circular shaped light fabric sphere. You soak them in water...give them a gently squeeze so that they're nice and damp but not sopping wet and then, after making the cutting...you stick them in a hole in the peat.

Also some people use the little cubes of rockwool. And dome or not to dome is also an issue that's discussed a lot. Find a good tutorial and follow those directions. It's not really necessary to make a bubble cloner or go buy a cloner. As a matter of fact...people have plenty of trouble with those too. Once you get the hang of it...then you can refine your own technique.
Also there's been lots of discussion lately on nutrition of the Mother plant. By withholding Nitrogen...sugars stack up and clone survival gets better.

Not to worry...it's an entirely learn-able skill...but there have been some improvements from GrandMa;s method. Good luck to you...
ET

PS: Here's a thread where I describe my technique. The scarification thing can be overdone so only use that on stiffer woody cuttings. You need to get some cloning hormones (powder or gel) too.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2680904#post2680904

 

[Old time lurker]

I concur with ET...judging from your pic, the infection started in the stem, moved up and is spreading out. I used to try rooting rose cuttings in soil, and probably went through an acre of cuttings...never did get it right. I'm getting ready to start cloning a plant, so if you wanna follow it, let me know, and I'll make a thread out of it. I used to have pretty good kung fu cloning in a bubbler, we shall see if my kung fu is still good...

 

[idontsmoke]

iDon't Smoke,
Ya, dude, I assumed it was your first time. The reason I figured they would die is that most likely the brown color is an indication of an infection in the stem that's moving upward.

There are quite a few good cloning tutorials here...as well as general cloning threads. Use the advanced search mode and you'll find lots to read.

I'm not saying that you can't clone on soil...but taking a more conventional approach will give you better results.

Do you have any peat pucks? Or do you know what they are? They're flat compressed disks of peat inside a circular shaped light fabric sphere. You soak them in water...give them a gently squeeze so that they're nice and damp but not sopping wet and then, after making the cutting...you stick them in a hole in the peat.

Also some people use the little cubes of rockwool. And dome or not to dome is also an issue that's discussed a lot. Find a good tutorial and follow those directions. It's not really necessary to make a bubble cloner or go buy a cloner. As a matter of fact...people have plenty of trouble with those too. Once you get the hang of it...then you can refine your own technique.
Also there's been lots of discussion lately on nutrition of the Mother plant. By withholding Nitrogen...sugars stack up and clone survival gets better.

Not to worry...it's an entirely learn-able skill...but there have been some improvements from GrandMa;s method. Good luck to you...
ET

PS: Here's a thread where I describe my technique. The scarification thing can be overdone so only use that on stiffer woody cuttings. You need to get some cloning hormones (powder or gel) too.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2680904#post2680904

Hey ET, thank for the pointers!

As i read here on the boards, most people use rockwool/peat/jiffy's and rooting hormones, and almost everyone claims that one method can work for some people and fail miserably for other. I believe someone called it a Voodoo or Mojo.
I did my research here on the boards and on youtube (lol) but i think i overthinked this.
Gonna go tomorrow and get me some RW cubes and try your method.

One question, what light cycles do u usually use for clones?
Mine are under one 6500K 23 CFL with 24/0. I know root development is mostly at night, so could 24/0 be a problem for rooting clones?

I concur with ET...judging from your pic, the infection started in the stem, moved up and is spreading out. I used to try rooting rose cuttings in soil, and probably went through an acre of cuttings...never did get it right. I'm getting ready to start cloning a plant, so if you wanna follow it, let me know, and I'll make a thread out of it. I used to have pretty good kung fu cloning in a bubbler, we shall see if my kung fu is still good...

Hey lurker.
I sure hope i won't need to go through that many clones before i get the hang of this thing.
Would love to see your bubbler cloner! Judging by peoples expiriences here, looks like bubblers/aero cloning has best success.

Off to work on my kung foo skillz...

 

[EvilTwin]

idon'tsmoke...
It does appear to be voodoo in that there's some indefinable element that seems to guaranty success...and it seems to be different for everyone.

As a general guideline...people who do hydro are usually the people who use bubble cloners. There are water roots (larger) and soil roots (very fine). I don't really know a lot about this area. But if you've ever seen a picture of DWC rootmass...they're huge and larger diameter water roots. Anyway...the point is that if you grow roots in a bubble cloner, the roots that are developed are more suited for hydro then soil.

Sheesh...just to simplify: Jiffys are best if you're growing in soil. Rockwool or bubble cloners are preferable for hydro.

Light cycle for clones doesn't matter much. 18/6 or 24/0 either is fine. You can even take a cutting and stick it under 12/12 and you'll get roots and sex the plant...but you need primo kung foo skills for that one.

Good luck kiddo...
ET

 

[idontsmoke]

Just got off the phone with "hydro guy" from my local store and they dont have jiffy's but he offered me Grodan rockwool and Coco starter disks that look almost identical to peat pucks.
Here's the pic from there website.

I grow in soil, so which one would you choose? Coco or rockwool?

Thanks

 

[EvilTwin]

idon'tsmoke,
I've taken clones rooted in rockwool and put them in soil. It works but it isn't perfect because the rockwool holds moisture right at the base of the stem.

The peat Jiffys are something that you'll find at any garden department...BUT they're seasonal. If you like growing and continue...you'll learn to make a springtime shopping trip to pick up those sort of things. Probably be hard to find now.

Those coco filled starter disks look like they'd work great. That's what I'd go with.
ET

 

[idontsmoke]

Thanks for all the help ET.
People like you are incredible asset to this community and without your, and ones like you, i think lot of people would quit growing when problems start to pile up!
I will continue my adventure, thanks to you!

 

[Rhyolite]

Post erased.

 

[EvilTwin]

Many thanks ET and idontsmoke! Saved me from asking a stupid question! Haha.

Glad I was able to help. Hey, I ran into a nice pictorial cloning tutorial over in the dirt section. Here's the link and it looks pretty good.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=143909

ET