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Diatomaceous Earth - The Best Pesticide You've Never Heard Of
- Thread starter NiteTiger
- Start date
purrpullkush
Member
So, if I dust some DE onto the surface of all my indoor soil, do I have to worry that my oscillating fans will blow it into the air and kill me, because I'd prefer to not have millions of tiny incisions in my lungs.
great info but where could i get some thats not on ebay or the internet
raygun
Active member
WHAT EVER YOU DO DO NOT INHALE DE!
WHAT EVER YOU DO DO NOT INHALE DE!
WHAT EVER YOU DO DO NOT INHALE DE!
While I do know and agree that DE is a great pest controler, either grade of it is not good to inhale. I have friends that work in a brewery and use (food grade)DE to filter the beer before bottling or keging and they always wear a mask when working with the stuff as well as having to get regular check ups on there lungs because of it.
WHAT EVER YOU DO DO NOT INHALE DE!
It's not good for you to inhale dirt particles anyway (miners lung AKA black lung) so why would you think little glass shards are ok?
Also you may not want it blowing around your grow room and getting in your eyes. Once again little glass shards in your eye, how nice. Think of it as if it were fiberglass insulation.
I would not recomend putting it on BUDS it will stick to your trics if you are growing sticky iky (and I know most of us are) and when you go to burn it you risk ending up getting little glass shards in your throat and lungs.
Look up the MSDS reports on it. It is an irratant to your throat and lungs.
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Diatomaceous_earth-9923703
If you still think its 100% safe go huff some and see how your lungs feel later.
I'm not trying to start anything just trying to help you with some safty info when working with DE.
Safe growing every one!
~Raygun~
WHAT EVER YOU DO DO NOT INHALE DE!
WHAT EVER YOU DO DO NOT INHALE DE!
While I do know and agree that DE is a great pest controler, either grade of it is not good to inhale. I have friends that work in a brewery and use (food grade)DE to filter the beer before bottling or keging and they always wear a mask when working with the stuff as well as having to get regular check ups on there lungs because of it.
WHAT EVER YOU DO DO NOT INHALE DE!
It's not good for you to inhale dirt particles anyway (miners lung AKA black lung) so why would you think little glass shards are ok?
Also you may not want it blowing around your grow room and getting in your eyes. Once again little glass shards in your eye, how nice. Think of it as if it were fiberglass insulation.I would not recomend putting it on BUDS it will stick to your trics if you are growing sticky iky (and I know most of us are) and when you go to burn it you risk ending up getting little glass shards in your throat and lungs.
Look up the MSDS reports on it. It is an irratant to your throat and lungs.
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Diatomaceous_earth-9923703
If you still think its 100% safe go huff some and see how your lungs feel later.
I'm not trying to start anything just trying to help you with some safty info when working with DE.
Safe growing every one!
~Raygun~
last grow we put some de under the buckets (waterfarms), and made a paste of the de (de+water) and painted the sides of the buckets..
we had less infestation, but those fuk'ers were still around... this grow we bombed the room 3 times within a week, sprayed the floors+walls with domant oil, will be raising the humidity (during veg), putting vasoline of the stems, spraying the plants during veg ,and 2-3 weeks in flowering with neem oil one week, then a mixture of tobaco+hot pepper another week/etc
about the 2nd or 3rd week into flowering, we will introduce predator mites into the room...
it seems during veg we rarely see em, but they sure come out during flowering.
hopefully the above measures have done the trick... but if i was a betting man... my money would be on the mites reappearing.. they sux
we had less infestation, but those fuk'ers were still around... this grow we bombed the room 3 times within a week, sprayed the floors+walls with domant oil, will be raising the humidity (during veg), putting vasoline of the stems, spraying the plants during veg ,and 2-3 weeks in flowering with neem oil one week, then a mixture of tobaco+hot pepper another week/etc
about the 2nd or 3rd week into flowering, we will introduce predator mites into the room...
it seems during veg we rarely see em, but they sure come out during flowering.
hopefully the above measures have done the trick... but if i was a betting man... my money would be on the mites reappearing.. they sux
the thing with diatomaceous earth is that it is made out of shells/tests from protozoans. their tests were made out of either calcium carbonate or a silicate material. if you think back to high school pottery... "dont inhale the clay dust, it contains small particles of silica that will destroy your lungs". as far as use within a garden, i wouldnt just sprinkle it on top, that leaves the chance of the dust being circulated by fans, possibly contaminating your grow. the 3 blind mice method mixes it into their soil. as far as eating food grade DE, it takes very little common sense, if DE a sharp edged shell that cuts through the bodies of pest insects what is it going to do to your stomach, intestines, etc. ? its a valuable tool as long as you know what youre doing.
raygun
Active member
NiteTiger said:I don't believe anyone advocated doing lines of DE
Not saying anyone is advocating that but constant breathing in of any particulate is bad and this is one that we should be taking some caution with.
I almost fell out of my chair thinking of some poor bastard comming across a pile o DE and sssnnnniiifffff
like out of that cheech and chong movie.
D
dafunkyjunkie
Jaykush, when yo said that "DE harms beneficials" would it also kill Mychorrizal Fungi? I was wondering because Mychorrizal fungi is probably the best thing that I bought for my babies. And using an insecticide that kills my mychorrizal fungi isn't good for me at all.
D
dafunkyjunkie
Hell yeah, thanks dude. This is really informative. If this works as good as you say it does, then I think I can stop making my tobacco, hot sauce, and egg spray concoction. Cuz after a while, it smells like shit!!
stinky
Member
I have used the kind you get at HD before with good results. I found some on ebay that is food grade. There are many reports on the Internet of silica being actually good for your body. They even tout it as a hair loss treatment. They give it to old folks and they get better. I am not saying eat or breathe the stuff but check out the articles as they are interesting. I am going to try a combination of neem and dt and see how it goes.
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0552.html
Amorphous silica is found in nature as biogenic silica and as silica glass of volcanic origin. One form of biogenic silica, diatomaceous earth, originates from the skeletons of diatoms deposited on sea floors and contains small amounts of cristobalite and quartz. After calcination (which significantly increases the cristobalite content), diatomaceous earth is used as a filtration agent, carrier for pesticides, filler in paints and paper and as a refractory or abrasive product in a variety of industries. Occupational exposure to both amorphous and crystalline silica may occur during the production and use of diatomaceous earth. Fibres of amorphous silica are produced by a variety of plants, such as sugar cane and rice, and may be inhaled when released into the air during farming operations. Large quantities of synthetic amorphous silica are produced as pyrogenic (fumed) silicas and wet process silicas (precipitated silicas and silica gels) which are used, notably, for reinforcing elastomers, for thickening resins, paints and toothpaste, and as free-flow additives. Exposure to synthetic amorphous silica may occur during its production and use. Synthetic amorphous silica may also be ingested as a minor constituent (< 2%) of a variety of food products where it serves as an anti-caking agent, and as an excipient in some pharmaceutical preparations. Silica fume is a form of amorphous silica (with small amounts of crystalline silica) unintentionally released into the air from certain metallurgical processes.
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol68/volume68.pdf
It's not going to kill you instantly or give you cancer immediately or ever, when using it for horticultural purposes. The particles cause irritation to the lungs and this can overtime lead to cancer. Adding to this smoking,
and you are multiplying the damage.
Basically, if you have a small garden and are intermittently using small amounts, then just make sure your not inhaling visible dust kicked up. If you have more going on and are increasingly going to be handling the DE, then get one of simple white masks.
Amorphous silica is found in nature as biogenic silica and as silica glass of volcanic origin. One form of biogenic silica, diatomaceous earth, originates from the skeletons of diatoms deposited on sea floors and contains small amounts of cristobalite and quartz. After calcination (which significantly increases the cristobalite content), diatomaceous earth is used as a filtration agent, carrier for pesticides, filler in paints and paper and as a refractory or abrasive product in a variety of industries. Occupational exposure to both amorphous and crystalline silica may occur during the production and use of diatomaceous earth. Fibres of amorphous silica are produced by a variety of plants, such as sugar cane and rice, and may be inhaled when released into the air during farming operations. Large quantities of synthetic amorphous silica are produced as pyrogenic (fumed) silicas and wet process silicas (precipitated silicas and silica gels) which are used, notably, for reinforcing elastomers, for thickening resins, paints and toothpaste, and as free-flow additives. Exposure to synthetic amorphous silica may occur during its production and use. Synthetic amorphous silica may also be ingested as a minor constituent (< 2%) of a variety of food products where it serves as an anti-caking agent, and as an excipient in some pharmaceutical preparations. Silica fume is a form of amorphous silica (with small amounts of crystalline silica) unintentionally released into the air from certain metallurgical processes.
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol68/volume68.pdf
It's not going to kill you instantly or give you cancer immediately or ever, when using it for horticultural purposes. The particles cause irritation to the lungs and this can overtime lead to cancer. Adding to this smoking,
and you are multiplying the damage. Basically, if you have a small garden and are intermittently using small amounts, then just make sure your not inhaling visible dust kicked up. If you have more going on and are increasingly going to be handling the DE, then get one of simple white masks.
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TriCrystalz
Member
wygram said:http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npgd0552.html
Amorphous silica is found in nature as biogenic silica and as silica glass of volcanic origin. One form of biogenic silica, diatomaceous earth, originates from the skeletons of diatoms deposited on sea floors and contains small amounts of cristobalite and quartz. After calcination (which significantly increases the cristobalite content), diatomaceous earth is used as a filtration agent, carrier for pesticides, filler in paints and paper and as a refractory or abrasive product in a variety of industries. Occupational exposure to both amorphous and crystalline silica may occur during the production and use of diatomaceous earth. Fibres of amorphous silica are produced by a variety of plants, such as sugar cane and rice, and may be inhaled when released into the air during farming operations. Large quantities of synthetic amorphous silica are produced as pyrogenic (fumed) silicas and wet process silicas (precipitated silicas and silica gels) which are used, notably, for reinforcing elastomers, for thickening resins, paints and toothpaste, and as free-flow additives. Exposure to synthetic amorphous silica may occur during its production and use. Synthetic amorphous silica may also be ingested as a minor constituent (< 2%) of a variety of food products where it serves as an anti-caking agent, and as an excipient in some pharmaceutical preparations. Silica fume is a form of amorphous silica (with small amounts of crystalline silica) unintentionally released into the air from certain metallurgical processes.
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol68/volume68.pdf
It's not going to kill you instantly or give you cancer immediately or ever, when using it for horticultural purposes. The particles cause irritation to the lungs and this can overtime lead to cancer. Adding to this smoking,
Basically, if you have a small garden and are intermittently using small amounts, then just make sure your not inhaling visible dust kicked up. If you have more going on and are increasingly going to be handling the DE, then get one of simple white masks.
Right, but what happens if you get some of that on your bud and just happen to smoke it?
how do y'alls go about the application of DE? i got some nasty mite probs i need to nip asap and i am expecting some of the DE to show up at my door today....by monday if not today, and i am just wondering what the most effective method of application you have found is
Applying dichotomous earth
Applying dichotomous earth
I use a flour sifter to give my plants a dusting on the top of the coco.
It works great and was 5-6 dollars at Wal-Mart, in the kitchen section. Grocery stores have them sometimes too, but usually want 10-15 dollars.
Anyways, here's some pics if anybody hasn't seen one before or needs a refresher - you just pull the handle and it makes the spoked things spin and drop some DE or whatever is in there.
Excellent thread btw NiteTiger!
Applying dichotomous earth
Sheriff Bart said:
I use a flour sifter to give my plants a dusting on the top of the coco.
It works great and was 5-6 dollars at Wal-Mart, in the kitchen section. Grocery stores have them sometimes too, but usually want 10-15 dollars.
Anyways, here's some pics if anybody hasn't seen one before or needs a refresher - you just pull the handle and it makes the spoked things spin and drop some DE or whatever is in there.
Excellent thread btw NiteTiger!
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1love1earth
Member
so I think I've got some springtails, and DE was brought up as a possible solution.
However in looking at one online website, it contains alot more than just silica, but some say that the other minerals/trace elements won't get absorbed by the plant.
"DE is approximately 3% magnesium, 33% silicon, 19% calcium, 5% sodium, 2% iron and many other trace minerals such as titanium, boron, manganese, copper and zirconium"
Now what worries me is not what's in DE, that's all well and good. It's that I have no idea how much cal/mag/etc it's going to supply, as I currently use Cal/Mag+ from botanicare, and I don't want to toxic dose my plants with too much.
Same with "rare earth" from GH, it's a silica product, and I don't want to overdo that either.
Further what are the PH effects of DE?
Or can I just cut to the chase and ask...
All you folks that used it IN your actual grow media, did you have any issues with your plants afterwards? Did you have to adjust nute/water PH at all? Did you have to adjust cal/mag?
That's my only concern.
I would love to use this stuff, but I'm still new to growing, and the relatively high micro nutrient content of DE concerns me, when used with other products I'm already using.
Also, any info on application rates? My idea would be to simply mix this stuff into my coco before transplanting into it, and I'd bet too much of this stuff is really going to do some harm. For whatever reason I just think it has the potential to overdose my plants on cal/mag/silica/etc, and wreak PH havoc (if I'm incorrect, please let me know), that's just my gut feeling from the % list I posted above.
I'm likely to use this stuff exclusively in my coco, not on the leaves. So how much is too much? How much is not enough? And what about PH flux and trace element/micro nutrient overdose?
Finally, where is a good source for cheap, food grade, high quality DE? If it's hard to get locally, feel free to post an online link.
I've got some transplanting coming up, and would like to throw this stuff in, if it seems safe.
I'm also going to be getting some gnatrol (liquid mosquito dunk, bacillius thuringensis) and applying that to the coco. I may also use spinosad as a foilar spray on a weekly basis, purely preventative.
Basically, my grow room is far from a clean room (not that it's bad or anything) weather outside is improving, and bugs are coming out. I can't afford a massive bug problem, and I've already got the springtails to deal with.
However in looking at one online website, it contains alot more than just silica, but some say that the other minerals/trace elements won't get absorbed by the plant.
"DE is approximately 3% magnesium, 33% silicon, 19% calcium, 5% sodium, 2% iron and many other trace minerals such as titanium, boron, manganese, copper and zirconium"
Now what worries me is not what's in DE, that's all well and good. It's that I have no idea how much cal/mag/etc it's going to supply, as I currently use Cal/Mag+ from botanicare, and I don't want to toxic dose my plants with too much.
Same with "rare earth" from GH, it's a silica product, and I don't want to overdo that either.
Further what are the PH effects of DE?
Or can I just cut to the chase and ask...
All you folks that used it IN your actual grow media, did you have any issues with your plants afterwards? Did you have to adjust nute/water PH at all? Did you have to adjust cal/mag?
That's my only concern.
I would love to use this stuff, but I'm still new to growing, and the relatively high micro nutrient content of DE concerns me, when used with other products I'm already using.
Also, any info on application rates? My idea would be to simply mix this stuff into my coco before transplanting into it, and I'd bet too much of this stuff is really going to do some harm. For whatever reason I just think it has the potential to overdose my plants on cal/mag/silica/etc, and wreak PH havoc (if I'm incorrect, please let me know), that's just my gut feeling from the % list I posted above.
I'm likely to use this stuff exclusively in my coco, not on the leaves. So how much is too much? How much is not enough? And what about PH flux and trace element/micro nutrient overdose?
Finally, where is a good source for cheap, food grade, high quality DE? If it's hard to get locally, feel free to post an online link.
I've got some transplanting coming up, and would like to throw this stuff in, if it seems safe.
I'm also going to be getting some gnatrol (liquid mosquito dunk, bacillius thuringensis) and applying that to the coco. I may also use spinosad as a foilar spray on a weekly basis, purely preventative.
Basically, my grow room is far from a clean room (not that it's bad or anything) weather outside is improving, and bugs are coming out. I can't afford a massive bug problem, and I've already got the springtails to deal with.
I use it for fungus gnats, not springtails.
No need to incorporate it throughout the soil. By dusting the top it's kills the emerging larve and the fungus gnat adults trying to get back into the soil.
This stuff is basically skeletons and I don't think dissolves very well in water or even a slightly acidic nute solution. I think most of the micros in the skeleton are chemically bound and are not really going to be unbound.
Maybe try beneficial nematoads in addition to the gnatrol.
No need to incorporate it throughout the soil. By dusting the top it's kills the emerging larve and the fungus gnat adults trying to get back into the soil.
This stuff is basically skeletons and I don't think dissolves very well in water or even a slightly acidic nute solution. I think most of the micros in the skeleton are chemically bound and are not really going to be unbound.
Maybe try beneficial nematoads in addition to the gnatrol.
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