Devolution?

[newbgrow]

I can say the abolishment of slavery is not a step forward, because in my view there is no forward or backward in the sense of a straight line with a finish line. Evolution is more analogous to a circle with 360 degrees of directions you could take. Slavery was abolished because it was no longer necessary at that point. You could make that a case of humanity, but it's really about much more than that. In my estimation, some time into the future, slavery will be in the "norm" again, and people will say how far humanity has "evolved" to include the new system of slavery.

In other words, everything that you think is a "step forward" is only a step forward by today's standards, which may or may not be the standards of the next generation.

I feel the same way about "intellectual" advancement. There are just way too many paths.

On the theory that human kind will eventually form two separate races, one for the elite and wealthy, and one for the poor - I'll put a spin on that too. You might think the elite, beautiful, smart, and wealthy people are superior in many ways, but one. In the future, the overwhelming population will be the poorer race, and poverty breeds impatience and violent tendencies. You only need to look into history to see an example... Sparta vs Athens. Athenians were intellectual rulers. Spartans were ruthless warriors. Yet, Athens got their asses handed to them - easily.

There's a limit to what intellects alone could do. Intellect is in no way the only advancement available to mankind.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to discuss, registeredtoker. I do agree there's devolvement, at least in my standards. But that's just the changing times...

 

[marx2k]

I'll take that theory, but I like to put a little twist into it. We never evolved in the first place. The misconception in the word evolve is that there's a better and a worse, and we change for the better. Unfortunately, the truth is there is no absolute scale or goal that we must reach, we simply adapt to the environment that befits us.

So in conclusion, we don't evolve or "devolve".

Well, we do evolve if we are no longer apes or fish or whatever. But the question is, why the hell did we lose all of our natural defenses? We lack hair, claws, teeth that can actually do some damage, muscles, etc.

I thought the point of evolution was to get you better equipped to handle your conditions. Most people, when thrown outdoors in the middle of a forest or desert or really most any climate, would die of exposure.

So why did we evolve into weaklings?

 

[marx2k]

hey guys...

when I said "devolved", I was talking in the intellectual sense.

I feel there are some finite measurable intellectual evolutions, such as abolition of slavery. Now, nobody can say that's not a step forward on our track through this world. Also, I think debate and reasoning are others.

Everyday, I just see more people going the other direction. Maybe we should get off the MTV juice and pick up a book again....hmmmmm

I say you can blame the following: capitalism, the industrial revolution, public schooling, prejudice towards homeschooling, lack of American family values, divorce rates, junk food, standardized testing as a make-it-or-break-it requirement to get into college, outsourcing as a way of life, globalisation, mainstream news media and mainstream entertainment media, non-intellectual videogames... the list goes on and on and on.

Basically, we went from being a strong country with intellectuals coming out of our pores to drooling halfwits who can't point to Canada on a map, but still have an economic support system deployed by parents who prospered during the 80s due to a decent education in the 50s, 60's and 70s.

When you watch something like Leave It To Beaver, you see kids calling their dad Sir. That's a strange culture shock just given within 50 years. But at that point kids still respected their parents (not turned them in for growing weed), actually cared what their parents thought about their progress in school, their activities, who they hung out with, ate well and if they were wearing clean underwear.

Now what you have are very high divorce rates, one parent families with absent working parents leaving the kid with no role models except for ones he sees on TV. Dinner comes from a bag of chips or McDonalds, schoolwork is a tertiary motivator behind Videogames and television.

I don't mean to sound like some old grouchy bastard (But isnt that the point of this thread anyway?) But I grew up during the 80s and 90s and there was a severe shift of most of my peers caring about school, actually knowing where Canada is, fearing their parents, knowing your basics of most any subject in school, standing up for themselves, not trying to sue everyone....

But in the 90s those same people and those around them turned into very different people with not much care about anything. Especially if it comes to scholastics or the future. People my age and slightly older (I'm 31) now really only care about making and spending money. And making money quickly and easily has become the desire over making your money honestly and intellectually.

And I thought about if that's only people my age, so it's the same people I've been seeing turn into those people. But I see it now in every age group younger than myself. It's as though everyone's been brainwashed to earn, earn, earn, spend, spend spend, **** everyone else, me, me, me, more more more

People who want to conserve (money, resources, relationships) are labeled as fiscal, eco and social conservatives and seen as old hat and uncool.

Now the question is, WHERE did that message come from to brainwash all of these people into perfect capitalists? What runs the machine that indoctrinates young children of around 6 years old or under, moulds their brains to be this way, and then releases them into the world?

Yes, it's the schools. But they're run by the governments. However, who really runs the government? Is it people? Is it interest groups? Is it corporations?

Find that out and you will find out who these people are being molded as resources for. My guess is large corporations.

 

[newbgrow]

Well, we do evolve if we are no longer apes or fish or whatever. But the question is, why the hell did we lose all of our natural defenses? We lack hair, claws, teeth that can actually do some damage, muscles, etc.

I thought the point of evolution was to get you better equipped to handle your conditions. Most people, when thrown outdoors in the middle of a forest or desert or really most any climate, would die of exposure.

So why did we evolve into weaklings?

As a side effect of our intelligence, we no longer had to depend on strength for survival. In other words, we "outsourced" our innate abilities to be dependant on tools. Today, we are better equipped to handle our conditions. We use our brains to go to college, make money, and we use guns to defend ourselves. Aside from sports, "strength" is no longer a necessary feature for survival.

The point of evolution is still there. Most people have not been thrown outdoors in the middle of forests and deserts, so that is irrelevant to Darwinism. The natives that live in forests still do, and can.

As a point to keep in mind, we do evolve, but not for the permanently-better, only "better" according to current conditions. We may be superior to apes today, but it's not necessarily indefinite, given a different set of living conditions. (Planet of the Apes comes to mind.) Therefore, the terms 'evolve' and 'devolve' are not really antonyms... There is no hierarchy of evolving, only a circle/cycle.

In my opinion... anyways. (I think monotheistic religions gave us the idea that we could somehow evolve from animalistic species to enlightenment close to God, that we're constantly reaching to be in God's image, or "perfect". As if anyone knows what perfect is anyways... So no... Evolution is not finite or measurable. There's no point in the chain where you can reach and just automatically stop evolving because you're perfect in every aspect. I don't think that is possible.)

 

[newbgrow]

I say you can blame the following: capitalism

There's a sense of awareness these days regarding capitalism... this urgency that if you're not making and saving money, and getting a good job, you're going to be left behind come next generation. The world is increasingly polarized, and as urban centers engulf the world, the general sentiment is that there is no longer the time for traditional values; or even if there is, it only exists on small scale between people who are close.

The second culprit, I would say, is the government and media and these 'politically-correct' 'protect-the-children' human rights watchgroups. They all have one thing in common: they promote distrust. These days every 'stranger' is a child molester, every man is a 'rapist', and we can only say or do something if someone tells us "it's ok." I think our obsession for fairness and equality and setting new moral standards is what's holding us back. Whoever had the idea that all Americans have to be perfect little angels in the face of the big bad third-world and communism need some perspective smacked into him.

 

[Verite]

" When a Darwin comes along, you must whip him ! "

 

[Guest]

I am busted. my devolving brain wave machine has blown a gravitron generator and has devolved all humans. No worries, I will fire up my flux capacitor. Go back in time and kill my grandmother. Please do not tell anyone as this is so embarrassing!

 

[registeredtoker]

Capitalism is not the problem, IMO. It creates healthy competition and promotes creativity. The problem on that side is people financing themselves into the ground and HAVING to work that much, so they're not at home with the family. Try saving money and stop financing things. Capitalism is just fine and the only system that realistically works. Again, IMO.