Defoliation questions

[OldPhart]

ditto!

ditto!

It's never sorted. There will always be those who drag huge leafy trees indoors. Especially here in Oregon omg... 8ft leaf bushes each with their own Gavita. Pumping out larf. I've seen a bunch since I've been here. The top 10" yields nice though. haha!

I've been indoor hydro since '90. Short veg, 1plant/sqft with a leaf here and there.

I live in a strict "No Larf" zone.

I can't speak for the outdoor folks, but when I'm growing indoors, I will do what ever I have to do to make the plant fit my needs, lighting, and conditions; mainly trimming and topping, with a little bondage. People can talk stress and all that, but I'm into this to grow bud, not a happy leafy plant. The one thing I would suggest is just small trimmings everyday, instead of making major changes to them. although I have been asked to look at a number of other peoples' grows, most of which were seriously overgrown. After a major raping of them, they freak out for a day, then go nuts growing. The ones that freak out more are the owners of the grow when I hack out half or more of the plant. LOL

My theory in veg is to trim any branches that won't reach the canopy, and to remove lower leaves that are shaded. Then In bloom, I just remove any leaves that are shading any bud sites. This works well to slow down the taller stalks, while allowing the shorter stalks to reach the canopy. This makes for a decently deep even canopy, and the removal of the lower leaves/branches during veg makes for decent air flow. To each their own, but that is my theory, that works for me.

 

[acdc]

I can't speak for the outdoor folks, but when I'm growing indoors, I will do what ever I have to do to make the plant fit my needs, lighting, and conditions; mainly trimming and topping, with a little bondage. People can talk stress and all that, but I'm into this to grow bud, not a happy leafy plant. The one thing I would suggest is just small trimmings everyday, instead of making major changes to them. although I have been asked to look at a number of other peoples' grows, most of which were seriously overgrown. After a major raping of them, they freak out for a day, then go nuts growing. The ones that freak out more are the owners of the grow when I hack out half or more of the plant. LOL

My theory in veg is to trim any branches that won't reach the canopy, and to remove lower leaves that are shaded. Then In bloom, I just remove any leaves that are shading any bud sites. This works well to slow down the taller stalks, while allowing the shorter stalks to reach the canopy. This makes for a decently deep even canopy, and the removal of the lower leaves/branches during veg makes for decent air flow. To each their own, but that is my theory, that works for me.

works wonders

 

[OG Expressions]

It's never sorted. There will always be those who drag huge leafy trees indoors. Especially here in Oregon omg... 8ft leaf bushes each with their own Gavita. Pumping out larf. I've seen a bunch since I've been here. The top 10" yields nice though. haha!

I've been indoor hydro since '90. Short veg, 1plant/sqft with a leaf here and there.

I live in a strict "No Larf" zone.

I saw this on youtube and shook my head. I understood they were trying to maximise given the plant count restriction, but they got the plants so large and stupid looking it was like you said 8 feet of stripped branches then a scrog cannopy, the top 8 to 12 inches do well but the rest is a massive waste of time. They could do the same thing with plants much shorter and get tge same yield. What a waste of food, water and time... plus all that larf bud lol

 

[mushroombrew]

I saw this on youtube and shook my head. I understood they were trying to maximise given the plant count restriction, but they got the plants so large and stupid looking it was like you said 8 feet of stripped branches then a scrog cannopy, the top 8 to 12 inches do well but the rest is a massive waste of time. They could do the same thing with plants much shorter and get tge same yield. What a waste of food, water and time... plus all that larf bud lol

I can't understand it. Maybe they need really low numbers. I know guys who veg over 100 days indoors!! Loony. So super inefficient.

 

[Mikell]

Agreed. On paper, it's not a good thing. I disagreed with it's practice heartily.

But you should try anything once (almost anything). And I've tried it, and it does, ime, make the lower sites larger and more mature? I can't think of the right word. Same plant, same light, same environment. It was the same run. Strain was Grape OG which has huge fans.

I basically got the same weight with both. but more buds by defoliating, instead of 7g nugs from the mains. That's why in post #2 I said it seems to take it from the main colas and redistribute it to the lowers and sides. I've had plants that 3 nugs = a zip. Which is fine for me, bc, I grow for my own usage. But other people I help, aren't fans of that look.

So, I forget who it was that said it works out the same either way, but that does seem to be the case. I'll try it on the next round too and if it repeats, I'll take some photos.

I would imagine that like anything else, the plant will dictate what works for it and what doesn't. I would just try it on the plants that are leaf heavy and see what happens. Check your weight, # of buds, and bud quality, and go from there.

The other thing was the defoliated plant flushed quicker, which makes sense...but I just never thought of it.

Touches on a major strength of defoliation.

Not so much a yield increase as a marketable yield increase. You can shift production from 33:33:33 tops:middles:larf to 10:80:10 tops:large middles:larf.

Not exactly, but towards this trend. Every plant is unique and requires a different stroke but I have failed to come across one yet that did not benefit from some form of growth control. My goal is to produce as many like size flowers as possible.

 

[Junk]

Touches on a major strength of defoliation.

Not so much a yield increase as a marketable yield increase.

YES! That's it! That's the thought I'm trying to express..TY!

 

[mushroombrew]

What about removing yellowing top leaves, about 2 or 3 weeks before harvest?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8001230&postcount=24

Yes day 21 and 42 as I said. I strip them again at 6wks. To give the lowers those extra photons. Yellow, green whatever they come off at 6wks in my show.

 

[w3rds]

I've had plants that 3 nugs = a zip. Which is fine for me, bc, I grow for my own usage. But other people I help, aren't fans of that look.

Nothing hurts me like having to break a beautiful cola nug in half to balance a scale....

 

[OG Expressions]

Nothing hurts me like having to break a beautiful cola nug in half to balance a scale....

You coukd always just pull buds away from the stem starting at the bottom it might not be so traumatizing for you lol

 

[Ibechillin]

It's never sorted. There will always be those who drag huge leafy trees indoors. Especially here in Oregon omg... 8ft leaf bushes each with their own Gavita. Pumping out larf. I've seen a bunch since I've been here. The top 10" yields nice though. haha!

I've been indoor hydro since '90. Short veg, 1plant/sqft with a leaf here and there.

I live in a strict "No Larf" zone.

With stacked vertical lights i think its possible to grow trees indoors that dont end up all larf to keep plant numbers down. Or instead of stacked getting good side lighting from multiple vert bulbs spread around plants on 2 or 3 sides.

Ive seen some amazing things online in hydro from heath robinson and coco with claims ~1.5 grams per watt.

I always really liked the idea and the logic is there, but have yet to try it myself.

Did recirculating sea of green in rockwool for a few cycles, quality and yield are there just dont like the high plant #s.

 

[mushroombrew]

With stacked vertical lights i think its possible to grow trees indoors that dont end up all larf to keep plant numbers down. Or instead of stacked getting good side lighting from multiple vert bulbs spread around plants on 2 or 3 sides.

Ive seen some amazing things online in hydro from heath robinson and coco with claims ~1.5 grams per watt.

I always really liked the idea and the logic is there, but have yet to try it myself.

Did recirculating sea of green in rockwool for a few cycles, quality and yield are there just dont like the high plant #s.

Yeah you are totally correct. If you use side lighting/vertical you really don't need to defoliate.

Kind of a different subject I think.

 

[OG Expressions]

Yeah you are totally correct. If you use side lighting/vertical you really don't need to defoliate.

Kind of a different subject I think.

Agreed

 

[Junk]

Yes, but...

Yes, but...

With stacked vertical lights i think its possible to grow trees indoors that dont end up all larf to keep plant numbers down. Or instead of stacked getting good side lighting from multiple vert bulbs spread around plants on 2 or 3 sides.

Ive seen some amazing things online in hydro from heath robinson and coco with claims ~1.5 grams per watt.

I always really liked the idea and the logic is there, but have yet to try it myself.

Did recirculating sea of green in rockwool for a few cycles, quality and yield are there just dont like the high plant #s.

But aren't you just trading a high plant count for a high light/ballast count?

I use a ton of side lighting. Those 125w CFL's, for the reason you are saying. I won't ever go back to just top lighting. I've actually used the side lighting to train the plants when I was bored.

But it's not the stacked vertical like you are talking about. I would like to hear your opinion, bc my initial thought is that it sounds $$$$?

 

[Ibechillin]

For the record i would still train/defoliate in a vertical system.

Vertical growing is all about efficiency, more usable light from less light sources. 2 600s are ideal, or a 1000 for tops and a 600 for lower.

Heath Robinson claims he yielded 4lbs from 8 Mr.Nice Shit strain plants in a donut around 2 600 watts lights, 1.493 grams per watt.

You place a box fan at the bottom of the lights and blow the hot air straight up away from bulbs, heat rises away quickly.

Bulbs emit light in 360 degrees and the farther the light travels or has to be reflected the weaker it becomes.

In an empty room an overhead 600w hung in the center of a room has an effective footprint of 3x3 right below it.

The same 600w hung vertically in the center of the room illuminates a 3x3 footprint on every side now instead of only on the floor.

We are talking about circular vertical grows

Plants put all their growth towards whichever side has the light.

Putting each plant the same distance from the bulbs arranged in a circle/donut allows each plant to be encased in maximum lighting from top to bottom and all through the canopy.

 

[Loc Dog]

No daconil anywhere near flowers.

I used a 10% bleach solution right at tge base of plant. Did not saturate roots! Just the base. Did not damage plants. 90% recovered fully. Well also got res temps back down.

Good luck hope you make it to harvest

I had to cut them all down early, about 4 days ago, and tried to salvage as much as possible. It seems like everywhere the Fusarium was horrible, was where a leaf was cut off of top buds. I cut the leaves long, and what was left rotted, and where it attached to stalk, turned into bud mold.

2 things I want to try next time are an ozone generator, in tent, with exhaust fan off, run for short time, then exhaust back on and vented up chimney. Ozone is supposed to be bad to breath, and a lung irritant.

The other thing I saw on wikipedia is trichoderma viride. Just ordered some from India.

 

[Whoscottgreen]

I'm a newbie, this is some helpful info. good luck with your grow

 

[Chunky Sloth]

That's funny when ever I mention the non defloiation team I always
Mention Jorge.

Jorge is an outdoor grower. Defoliating trees is dumb. Hence his opinion.

I find most people against usually haven't tried it.

I have found out otherwise. Better quality bud and yield. If you do it right.
Pics below

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=343303&page=7

Well I defoliated yesterday. Left only 3 leaves per shoot. Plants didn't miss a beat and look great. So much light on the interior, I'm excited.

 

[mushroombrew]

You in soil?

 

[igrowone]

got a grow going with what looks to be a sativa type dominant pheno
looks good, but not as thick with leaf as many of the hybrids i've run
just didn't feel that defoliating was going to be the best choice this time around
curious on experience with the more sativa looking plants

 

[Bud Green]

I trim my fingernails, but I don't cut off my fingers when I'm doing it...