I talk a real big though? Well I was being sarcastic. My particular setup I don't keep moms normally. I lollytop and take the bottom nodes for clones but I think I'll try this on 2 plants in a few weeks.
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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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I talk a real big though? Well I was being sarcastic. My particular setup I don't keep moms normally. I lollytop and take the bottom nodes for clones but I think I'll try this on 2 plants in a few weeks.
As stated, 13x now...I will post the final weight and difference from the previous 5 runs with everything the same...except defol. Sorry I do not have pics of my previous grows, but I know what they yielded.
I just put everything in Jars, and I have almost 2x the Jars as in previous grows. And the buds are more dense...all of them! Give me a couple of days and I will post it.
I have ZERO reason to lie, and I am sure some idiot is going to say some stupid shit about not having pictures to prove everything because I did not take pics of them while growing. Sorry, but I did not feel comfortable doing so...until I became a legal patient.
This was my first time trying defoliation, it would make no sense for me to just make shit up. I am not a newbie or trying to convert anybody...I am just sharing my experience. Thats what this thread is about. It worked for my situation, and well. If you do not agree with it....it is very simple. Dont do it!
BTW, there are a few people who do have pictures of both...If you read the whole thread you would see them. Not my job to find them for you.
perhaps this technique is also a benefit to people with a saturation of light rather than the bare minimum? I have 400w cmh & 400w hps in a small tent and the foliage was a nightmare after week 2 of veg under just cmh, my trimming has continued since flower with 0 ill effect and bud sites just about everywhere.
I can also perhaps see it being a benefit to someone with low penetration bulbs with a lot of foliage :/ does that make sense?
I am not saying that it is gospel or I am right before someone jumps down my throat, Its a thought I have in my head, a guess that has about as much scientific merit as sesame street.
I can also perhaps see it being a benefit to someone with low penetration bulbs with a lot of foliage :/ does that make sense?
I am not saying that it is gospel or I am right before someone jumps down my throat, Its a thought I have in my head, a guess that has about as much scientific merit as sesame street.
I do not personally defoliate my ladies.
I do think defoliation would be very benneficial to lower wattage growers or people who run lower wpsf. If you run less then 40wpsf defoliation would probably help things out if you run 40wpsf or above I dont see any reason to defoliate.
Some people take the defoliation to the extreme and I am not sure it's truely benneficial to them. The thread starter posted pretty good details on defoliating, I think some people missed the concept and have just basically stripped there plants down to the stems (extreme defoliation) which is probably not all that bennefical.
I dont see any problem with this thread being a sticky, But it may be nice to add a caution statement to let people know to take it slow and grasp the full concept before jumping in there rooms and stripping the plants bare.
I personally do not think (extreme defoliation) is benneficial...
I do think defoliation would be very benneficial to lower wattage growers or people who run lower wpsf. If you run less then 40wpsf defoliation would probably help things out if you run 40wpsf or above I dont see any reason to defoliate.
Some people take the defoliation to the extreme and I am not sure it's truely benneficial to them. The thread starter posted pretty good details on defoliating, I think some people missed the concept and have just basically stripped there plants down to the stems (extreme defoliation) which is probably not all that bennefical.
I dont see any problem with this thread being a sticky, But it may be nice to add a caution statement to let people know to take it slow and grasp the full concept before jumping in there rooms and stripping the plants bare.
I personally do not think (extreme defoliation) is benneficial...
Talk about doing some reading before you jump in, lmfao, i've been growing HID's since day 1. CFLs are for fun.
I did a side by side defoliation experiment when I first started and the clone that got defoliated produced less. Yes it had more 'dense lower buds' but overall the main cola was slightly smaller and the yield was less.
So unless you have a side by side and weigh both, again all I'm seeing is subjective guesses. You can have 50 years of growing, but until you put it on the scale, it's just a guess.
Good post! Extreme anything is not beneficial a plant. I do not strip chicken mine all in one night, but over a few days. The leaves grow back really fast. And it gives light to parts of the plant that never get light.
I have been preaching the same thing about people with lack of light intensity the whole time....but some do just not get it. This is why it works well for ME. In a small tent a 400 watt hps is not going to penetrate deep enough once they really fill out. It is not just about wpsf...it is about penetration. You can have enough Watts...but the intensity matters as well.
Funny how I hardly have any recent posts, other than a single post asking people to keep on track.
Please show me these troll posts.
You are the troll.
I can not delete posts. So stop yer lying saying I can.
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Perhaps you have pointed out something blatant there about over pruning, there has to be some sort of balance. I removed all huge fan leaves first then day by day the ones with no flowers that are paired with flowering stems are removed as slowly as the flowering stems produce the leaves of there own... i have not touched any of them and i don't plan to... if that makes any sense to anyone lol
Listen....I spent over an hour yesterday reading this thread from start to finish, every single post. I checked it's history. Blynx has NOT deleted ANY posts in this thread. The only post that was removed in the past 6 months was done 2 days ago by MAIG. So, anyonel complaining about the mod and deleted posts is simply, wrong. Keep this thread ON TOPIC. Pages were split out of it overnight and if the same people continue to cause problems, they will not be aorund to make new posts...we cool? Continue on...arguement free...
Well, after reading the recent developments on this thread i'm going to put up a few pics as an illustration of what defoliation has done for me.
None of these are “side by sides” as I don't do unit grows.
I harvest a plant a week, perpetual style.
So I can show pics of plants that have been run the same exact way except for defoliation.
I grow small trees with good lighting so you can't call this a bonsai technique.
Pictures, whether they are of side by side plants or of consecutive plants or plants that were grown weeks apart, cannot show true weight. There is no one that can tell the actual weight of a plant by looking at it.
You can just provide relative size indicators and allow the viewer to make their own decisions. And all you can do is report weight.
You can use my 5 gallon buckets as relative indicators if you like. Or perhaps a yardstick in the foliage. Or maybe put several plants in front of a 36” wide door.
I think you all will agree that these things I have mentioned are acceptable relative indicators.
In addition to that I keep accurate weight records expressly so that I can track the differences my changes make.
So I can show you a few plants and tell you how much they weighed. And that's all I can really do as this is a pot site and it is still illegal in most places.
But this still meets the scientific criteria of qualifying as empirical data. This is defined as data that has been gained from measurement and/or observation. Either measurement or observation alone are acceptable for presentation.
I have measured and observed very carefully.
All you real scientists out there know that in the scientific world one party makes claims and puts up evidence and arguments and then other, interested parties who may want to prove or disprove something try parallel or similar experiments in an attempt to replicate results to satisfy themselves.
Why should the world of cannabis be any different?
If you want to prove or disprove this try it for yourselves. It is the only way to really know.
Meanwhile here are a few pics.
This first series has been put up on this thread before but seems to have been forgotten or purposefully ignored.
In this post you see the same plant. It was vegged 8 weeks without defoliation. Then flowered to the end of stretch without defoliation.
At that point I radically defoliated the plant by removing every fan leaf that had a stem. I left single stemless leaves growing out of bud sites. All re-leafing you see in the final series of photos occurred after defoliation.
So, two pics before DF'ing, two pics after, and four pics just before cutting and trimming.
The plant was dried to the point where large bud stems snap.
It weighed 18.38 oz's dry.
It was and still is the largest single plant i've ever grown.
This is a reprint of an earlier post showing some numbers;
k33ftr33z and lifeless, thanks for the compliments on the monster!
i just weighed last weeks plant and it only went 15.80. i guess i screwed up somewhere.
so my last five consecutive defoliated plants went 11.96, 12.35, 14.74, 18.38, and 15.80 for a total of 73.23 or an average of 14.65 each.
my last 5 plants before defoliation averaged 10.49, or 52.45 total oz's.
a total difference of 20.78 or 4.16 zips per plant.
i have been doing a series of changes over the last year to drive up yield and this one, defoliating, has made the largest difference.
at this point i'll stop posting pics and weight here as i think i have proven this technique.
thanks k33ftr33z!
__________________
Passive Plant Killer
these figures are accurate!
Since the 8th of august I have not had a plant under 14 oz's. Some were over 16 oz's. I would say i'm averaging around 15.5 oz's per plant now with defoliating.
Sincerely, delta9nxs
None of these are “side by sides” as I don't do unit grows.
I harvest a plant a week, perpetual style.
So I can show pics of plants that have been run the same exact way except for defoliation.
I grow small trees with good lighting so you can't call this a bonsai technique.
Pictures, whether they are of side by side plants or of consecutive plants or plants that were grown weeks apart, cannot show true weight. There is no one that can tell the actual weight of a plant by looking at it.
You can just provide relative size indicators and allow the viewer to make their own decisions. And all you can do is report weight.
You can use my 5 gallon buckets as relative indicators if you like. Or perhaps a yardstick in the foliage. Or maybe put several plants in front of a 36” wide door.
I think you all will agree that these things I have mentioned are acceptable relative indicators.
In addition to that I keep accurate weight records expressly so that I can track the differences my changes make.
So I can show you a few plants and tell you how much they weighed. And that's all I can really do as this is a pot site and it is still illegal in most places.
But this still meets the scientific criteria of qualifying as empirical data. This is defined as data that has been gained from measurement and/or observation. Either measurement or observation alone are acceptable for presentation.
I have measured and observed very carefully.
All you real scientists out there know that in the scientific world one party makes claims and puts up evidence and arguments and then other, interested parties who may want to prove or disprove something try parallel or similar experiments in an attempt to replicate results to satisfy themselves.
Why should the world of cannabis be any different?
If you want to prove or disprove this try it for yourselves. It is the only way to really know.
Meanwhile here are a few pics.
This first series has been put up on this thread before but seems to have been forgotten or purposefully ignored.
In this post you see the same plant. It was vegged 8 weeks without defoliation. Then flowered to the end of stretch without defoliation.
At that point I radically defoliated the plant by removing every fan leaf that had a stem. I left single stemless leaves growing out of bud sites. All re-leafing you see in the final series of photos occurred after defoliation.
So, two pics before DF'ing, two pics after, and four pics just before cutting and trimming.
The plant was dried to the point where large bud stems snap.
It weighed 18.38 oz's dry.
It was and still is the largest single plant i've ever grown.
This is a reprint of an earlier post showing some numbers;
k33ftr33z and lifeless, thanks for the compliments on the monster!
i just weighed last weeks plant and it only went 15.80. i guess i screwed up somewhere.
so my last five consecutive defoliated plants went 11.96, 12.35, 14.74, 18.38, and 15.80 for a total of 73.23 or an average of 14.65 each.
my last 5 plants before defoliation averaged 10.49, or 52.45 total oz's.
a total difference of 20.78 or 4.16 zips per plant.
i have been doing a series of changes over the last year to drive up yield and this one, defoliating, has made the largest difference.
at this point i'll stop posting pics and weight here as i think i have proven this technique.
thanks k33ftr33z!
__________________
Passive Plant Killer
these figures are accurate!
Since the 8th of august I have not had a plant under 14 oz's. Some were over 16 oz's. I would say i'm averaging around 15.5 oz's per plant now with defoliating.
Sincerely, delta9nxs
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Thank you for sharing and re-sharing your pics and experiences. Yesterday people were demanding some proof. There is some proof for the haters.
My guess is tho d9 is that someone really soon is going to try to discredit you as they did to me and everyone else. Just wait...it wont be long.
Good work bro, I know it works for sure. I will post my final weight in a few days. But I have almost 2x the jars as normal....so it does not take a rocket scientist to see I have more.
They will shoot me down too I am sure of it.
BTW I keep trying to tell people it is not just a Bonsai Method...but someone insists that is the only way it helps. I beg to differ.
G
Guywithoutajeep
I have an opinion 
I think no matter what, a plants genetics are adapted towards sunlight. Sunlight supports all the leaves and bud sites of a plant left to grow wild. Indoors we can't recreate sunlight, but the plants genetics are still geared to growing a wild bushy plant. An HID simply can not support the full plant growth. Tame it for indoors by removing a few things here and there, I agree. Only remove what the plant needs to have removed so it can survive our weak ass lighting. Stripping it bare is probably an awful idea though...
I think no matter what, a plants genetics are adapted towards sunlight. Sunlight supports all the leaves and bud sites of a plant left to grow wild. Indoors we can't recreate sunlight, but the plants genetics are still geared to growing a wild bushy plant. An HID simply can not support the full plant growth. Tame it for indoors by removing a few things here and there, I agree. Only remove what the plant needs to have removed so it can survive our weak ass lighting. Stripping it bare is probably an awful idea though...
Right, except I attacked no one. My comment was a reply to the specific comment I quoted in my post. And nothing was said about how many posts you have nor what your experience level was. Even if you came here bashing defoliation, it doesn't mean anyone here should attack you. This isn't a defoliation cult, but it looks like that's how you see it in your head, and you're attacking us all as such.
prowler
Member
What if You all could just stop flooding this topic with nothing more than accusations, speculations and empty words and start to learn from all of this. Please push the brake pedal before things get messy! This is really interesting topic but lately it has been flooded with bullshit from..gee let me think.. ALL OF YOU!
Instead of fighting with empty words you all should begin to take this beyond it all.
1. IT HAS BEEN SOMEHOW PROVEN THAT DEFOLATION DOES INDEED HELP
2. IT HAS BEEN ALSO PROVEN THAT IT DOES NOT!
So why is this?! You all should think these facts and instead of arguing who is wrong and who is right. In the name of canna science HELP US ALL and analyze these theories more because all the answers i get from this right now is more questions! Neither sides are right and that is the thing you should be talking about.
- SHIEEET! (c) Council Clay davies.
[EDIT:] I DO NOT BLAME ANYONE PARTICULAR - THIS IS A GENERAL COMMENT!
Instead of fighting with empty words you all should begin to take this beyond it all.
1. IT HAS BEEN SOMEHOW PROVEN THAT DEFOLATION DOES INDEED HELP
2. IT HAS BEEN ALSO PROVEN THAT IT DOES NOT!
So why is this?! You all should think these facts and instead of arguing who is wrong and who is right. In the name of canna science HELP US ALL and analyze these theories more because all the answers i get from this right now is more questions! Neither sides are right and that is the thing you should be talking about.
- SHIEEET! (c) Council Clay davies.
[EDIT:] I DO NOT BLAME ANYONE PARTICULAR - THIS IS A GENERAL COMMENT!
Massproducer
Member
So by me saying that this proves that defoliated plants can grow and yield well but not that it actually improves yield is attacking anyone??? I truly do not understand the logic behind that at all... My comment was directed at the few that contended that the pics alone show an improved yield, they def show a great yield but in order to say that something improved you would need to at least show a control plant that was not defoliated... I would totally agree that Cannabis can be grown great defoliated and can yield great as well, all I am saying is simply, improve is a "compare and contrast" type of word, meaning something has to be improved...
Where do you get the idea of me thinking something is a cult or something from what I have wrote, in my 1 post in this thread??? Like seriously??? Once again I do not understand you logic at all... No one else tried to attack me for my comment, JF, commented on what I wrote in a respectful yet constructive manner, but then you come along. You say that you have issue with my comment yet when you quoted me you cut the end of the sentence out to make it appear as if I was bashing defoliation, yet the end that you cut out said you could grow and yield great with defoliation... This is the reason I usually choose not to post at this forum, soooo much petty teenage arguing, instead of actually presenting points of views and facts.
And you are right my response was basically an attack on you, in response to the comments you posted directed at me... Like really have a great day, I have no time for shit like this, but please go baack and read what I wrote again and then read your cocky response directed at me...
Where do you get the idea of me thinking something is a cult or something from what I have wrote, in my 1 post in this thread??? Like seriously??? Once again I do not understand you logic at all... No one else tried to attack me for my comment, JF, commented on what I wrote in a respectful yet constructive manner, but then you come along. You say that you have issue with my comment yet when you quoted me you cut the end of the sentence out to make it appear as if I was bashing defoliation, yet the end that you cut out said you could grow and yield great with defoliation... This is the reason I usually choose not to post at this forum, soooo much petty teenage arguing, instead of actually presenting points of views and facts.
And you are right my response was basically an attack on you, in response to the comments you posted directed at me... Like really have a great day, I have no time for shit like this, but please go baack and read what I wrote again and then read your cocky response directed at me...
Just because you have more 'jars' of weed doesn't prove anything.
Sometimes an ounce fills up one jar, sometimes two.
Depends how fluffy your nugs are.
Fluffier nugs appear to be more bud, but are actually less.
Unless you do a side by side comparison, you can not draw conclusions scientifically.
Even if you do a side by side comparison, everything but ONE variable must be the same.
If you don't do a side by side and compare your yields, what about differences in humidity from last grow and this grow?
What about differences in ambient temperature between this grow and last grow?
What about differences in lights out temperatures when plants are sleeping?
What about maybe you scooped a tad bit more fertilizers into your watering can this time?
What about maybe you watered a tad less?
Maybe you say everything is THE EXACT SAME except now you defoliate... but you ALSO change the container size where your plants roots grow?
There is more to add to this list, but these are some things to consider before deciding that cutting off a plants leaves is the reason the performance has changed in final yield.
Sometimes an ounce fills up one jar, sometimes two.
Depends how fluffy your nugs are.
Fluffier nugs appear to be more bud, but are actually less.
Unless you do a side by side comparison, you can not draw conclusions scientifically.
Even if you do a side by side comparison, everything but ONE variable must be the same.
If you don't do a side by side and compare your yields, what about differences in humidity from last grow and this grow?
What about differences in ambient temperature between this grow and last grow?
What about differences in lights out temperatures when plants are sleeping?
What about maybe you scooped a tad bit more fertilizers into your watering can this time?
What about maybe you watered a tad less?
Maybe you say everything is THE EXACT SAME except now you defoliate... but you ALSO change the container size where your plants roots grow?
There is more to add to this list, but these are some things to consider before deciding that cutting off a plants leaves is the reason the performance has changed in final yield.
I have some Bubba Kush that are 4 weeks into flower, and they love defoliation. The buds at the bottom are the same size as all the other buds, except the top colas.
When it comes to the final trim each plant will take at most 10 minutes. IMO anything that helps the plant, and the final trim is a winner.
I would be more than happy to do a side by side but I've been there and done that. I have found that yield, and overall quality of the plants health to be better with defoliation.
When it comes to the final trim each plant will take at most 10 minutes. IMO anything that helps the plant, and the final trim is a winner.
I would be more than happy to do a side by side but I've been there and done that. I have found that yield, and overall quality of the plants health to be better with defoliation.
Xare
Active member
Back to back grows are just as scientific and valid as any side by side.
Your choosing to not accept the Data because its not shown in a Side by Side.
But we know what our GPW ratio is, and if it goes up by using this technique then it works as a high yield tek. Its as simple as that.
Your choosing to not accept the Data because its not shown in a Side by Side.
But we know what our GPW ratio is, and if it goes up by using this technique then it works as a high yield tek. Its as simple as that.
1. I called you a dumb ass because you stated my comment was one of the dumbest things you read in a long time.
2. The light that does not "even reach a part of the plant at all" is an illusion. The light which APPEARS to not reach is the part in the shade. The shade looks like shade because the green light, which we are so perceptive to is reflected by the green leaves. The other color spectrums of light PASS THROUGH the leaves and are subsequently absorbed.
3. The circling of roots causes the pot to become completely filled of roots with no spaces for oxygen. The roots become restricted by themselves.
4. Airpots RESTRICT the roots from strangling themselves by air-pruning, or air-restricting, the roots. Your roots are recieving much more oxygen. If you cut the size of the pot down... more roots restricted.
5. I began my discussion in this thread actually AGREEING with _you_ but you have some serious reading comprehension issues.
6. Sorry for suggesting you're a dumbass.
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