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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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Brotherbud
Member
Thanks benzo(happens to be my brother's name too). I think my branchy OG's will benefit nicely from this technique if I don't over-do it. Will be looking forwards to updates of your progress.
-Peace
-Peace
Yep that is absolutely correct, happened to me last year, lost a large part of a huge cola on a beautiful plant. When you cut the leaf off in dense bud areas and leave the stem, water/sap leaks out of the stem end and the stem eventually dies trapped in the bud clusters. Mold and rot soon set in, in the area. So be careful with this technique guys. I've been doing this for awhile, not as hardcore as is recommended here, but yeah it works pretty well. I'm going to make a skeleton out of one of my OGK clones in the morning and go all out to see if I can get even more of a result from this. Good times!
So mould is less likely if the old stem is twisted/pulled off ? Mould is a big concern for me as RH is high at night lately.
I've been cutting stems in half with scissors, but try to twist the remains out within a few days of cutting. Previously I just twisted or pulled the stems off because I didn't like leaving them there. But of course I've done a bit of damage a few times this way.
So some risk of damage or infection (by twist/pull), versus some risk of mould (by cutting stems in half.)
Excellent thread, info and subject k33ftr33z ! 3 1/2 months for 87 pages and over 1300 posts is pretty epic !
I'd like to third (I've seen at least two mentions) the proposal to place this sticky thread in a general growing forum; not indoor hydro.
I've just finished the whole thread, LOL, but felt comfortable trying it out after the first 20 pages or so.
I'm growing 3 large plants in grow bags w/ soil-less mix outside. They're in my backyard forest and get about 5 hours of direct sunlight per day. This is my first outdoor grow to reach flower. First was pulled due to chopper paranoia.
I've done two harvests indoors and got about 200g or so from a 400 watt HID and that was 13 years ago after reading all the pot bibles of the time. And I've been reading lots lately, so I'm a bit more advanced than a newb, but always learning. I also held onto the old concept of not removing leaves.
QUESTION: Is it OK to remove some of the upper leaves? The small ones that have a stem (IE not bud attached leaves) ? I've removed some that seemed to shade lower buds, but not TOO many.
BTW, I've noted that those who measure improvement in yield are claiming from 20-50% improvements.
My understanding of the thread thoughts on outdoor defol is that defoliating in veg is not needed.
I did LST tying starting when the plants went in grow bags and at that point there was still lots of air and little crowding. Since then the foliage has become VERY dense on the 2 indica dominants. I'd been thinking I could remove a few branches and still have virtually full sea of green. But I've gone the defoliate route instead. Albeit, I did remove some small popcorn stuff from the centre bottom of the 2 plants before I read here about defol.
My 1 sativa dominant was not so crowded, but I've done some defol to her too.
So it's hard to say outdoors but I think my sativa is at least 3 weeks into flower. My indicas are a bit behind.
I'd be happy to see higher yield with defol. But mould protection, and perhaps lower visibility from choppers are also major plusses, and those alone would justify some defol.
I spread my defol over 3 days so far as I've read more and become more confident.
I'll post some pics in my next post.
I'd like to third (I've seen at least two mentions) the proposal to place this sticky thread in a general growing forum; not indoor hydro.
I've just finished the whole thread, LOL, but felt comfortable trying it out after the first 20 pages or so.
I'm growing 3 large plants in grow bags w/ soil-less mix outside. They're in my backyard forest and get about 5 hours of direct sunlight per day. This is my first outdoor grow to reach flower. First was pulled due to chopper paranoia.
I've done two harvests indoors and got about 200g or so from a 400 watt HID and that was 13 years ago after reading all the pot bibles of the time. And I've been reading lots lately, so I'm a bit more advanced than a newb, but always learning. I also held onto the old concept of not removing leaves.
QUESTION: Is it OK to remove some of the upper leaves? The small ones that have a stem (IE not bud attached leaves) ? I've removed some that seemed to shade lower buds, but not TOO many.
BTW, I've noted that those who measure improvement in yield are claiming from 20-50% improvements.
My understanding of the thread thoughts on outdoor defol is that defoliating in veg is not needed.
I did LST tying starting when the plants went in grow bags and at that point there was still lots of air and little crowding. Since then the foliage has become VERY dense on the 2 indica dominants. I'd been thinking I could remove a few branches and still have virtually full sea of green. But I've gone the defoliate route instead. Albeit, I did remove some small popcorn stuff from the centre bottom of the 2 plants before I read here about defol.
My 1 sativa dominant was not so crowded, but I've done some defol to her too.
So it's hard to say outdoors but I think my sativa is at least 3 weeks into flower. My indicas are a bit behind.
I'd be happy to see higher yield with defol. But mould protection, and perhaps lower visibility from choppers are also major plusses, and those alone would justify some defol.
I spread my defol over 3 days so far as I've read more and become more confident.
I'll post some pics in my next post.
Lack
Member
Hey bro, yeah less likely if you remove it all the way, but it could still happen. I would avoid removing leaves/stems from tight budclusters whenever possible though. Even when the stem is removed at the stalk it will still leak sap/water for a little while, the cut trapped within the sticky, tight buds could easily cause mold/rot. Best thing to do is have a battle plan. When the plant is just starting to flower and you notice leaves that could end up being problematic during late flowering, remove them then and not in later flowering when the clusters have already formed.
Hey guys, Am I right in thinking that the reason the leaves need to be removed during veg is to achieve the plant shape and more bud sights?
I`ve been removing quite a few fan leaves that are obscuring lower buds and not sure how far to go with it.
I have 15 plants on the go at 2 and a half weeks into 12/12. 5 of them are lanky, stretchy, but beautiful Grapefruit strain and not really sure how effective it`ll be on these spidlier plants, but the 10 Armageddon are a lot more shrub like with lots of closely spaced bud sites. They`ve had all the main branches tied back to give a good spread to the plants and the bottom thin stuff has all been removed. The plants are averaging a max of 24 inches high and the spread is between 18 and 24 inches.
The Arma`s are a dense leafy plant hence me removing some leaves already, but if I have plants that are squat and have many close budsites, many obscured by fan leaves, is it still going to have a largely beneficial affect on my plants?
Do some strains dislike this technique, or is it a winner in all cicumstances, all strains?
Thanks, Toke
I`ve been removing quite a few fan leaves that are obscuring lower buds and not sure how far to go with it.
I have 15 plants on the go at 2 and a half weeks into 12/12. 5 of them are lanky, stretchy, but beautiful Grapefruit strain and not really sure how effective it`ll be on these spidlier plants, but the 10 Armageddon are a lot more shrub like with lots of closely spaced bud sites. They`ve had all the main branches tied back to give a good spread to the plants and the bottom thin stuff has all been removed. The plants are averaging a max of 24 inches high and the spread is between 18 and 24 inches.
The Arma`s are a dense leafy plant hence me removing some leaves already, but if I have plants that are squat and have many close budsites, many obscured by fan leaves, is it still going to have a largely beneficial affect on my plants?
Do some strains dislike this technique, or is it a winner in all cicumstances, all strains?
Thanks, Toke
pH Balanced
New member
Great questions.
Great answers coming I hope. ;-) One more question, what about the plants ability to transpire, as a lot is done through the fan leaves? Oh and another, would I expect a difference in how much nutrient they take up? Maybe a problem for plants that are mixed, ie. defoliated and others left with many fan leaves on, fed from the same loop and timer etc.
I guess its all in this very lengthy thread which I`m getting through slowly. I reckon my plants are a bit swamped out by leaves and now is probably the time to go with it. I`ve just defoliated 5 of the 10 Arma`s, poor fookers look very scrawny in comparison to the leafy ones despite already removing a significant number of shading leaves.
Armageddon at around 14 days 12/12 from above
You can see the Armageddon nearer the camera then the taller (despite being tied back similarly to the Arma`s) Grapefruit, then beyond the Grapefruit lies another row of Arma`s
I`ll take a couple of pics at lights off of the plants I`ve defoliated, they look a bit like a chicken without its feathers.
Anyone tried stripping the fan leaves from one half of a plant and not the other, may be interesting and may show a very obvious comparison, or of course it could mess up, guess it happens sometimes in the wild with nibbling deer etc.
Cheers Toke ;-)
In Green Rush, at 25:38 you can see "Juancho" trimming off leaves on outdoor plants.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/149015/the-green-rush
The dirty little Mexican rips him off at the end.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/149015/the-green-rush
The dirty little Mexican rips him off at the end.
C
Casual
Lifeless, can you point me to some more info on Apollolicious?
I'm very interested in something that finishes this fast... crazy fast!
How's the yield? Indica/Stativa?? Any info would be great!
Thanks!
Caz
I'm very interested in something that finishes this fast... crazy fast!
How's the yield? Indica/Stativa?? Any info would be great!
Thanks!
Caz
Great answers coming I hope. ;-) One more question, what about the plants ability to transpire, as a lot is done through the fan leaves? Oh and another, would I expect a difference in how much nutrient they take up? Maybe a problem for plants that are mixed, ie. defoliated and others left with many fan leaves on, fed from the same loop and timer etc.
I guess its all in this very lengthy thread which I`m getting through slowly. I reckon my plants are a bit swamped out by leaves and now is probably the time to go with it. I`ve just defoliated 5 of the 10 Arma`s, poor fookers look very scrawny in comparison to the leafy ones despite already removing a significant number of shading leaves.
Armageddon at around 14 days 12/12 from above
You can see the Armageddon nearer the camera then the taller (despite being tied back similarly to the Arma`s) Grapefruit, then beyond the Grapefruit lies another row of Arma`s
I`ll take a couple of pics at lights off of the plants I`ve defoliated, they look a bit like a chicken without its feathers.
Anyone tried stripping the fan leaves from one half of a plant and not the other, may be interesting and may show a very obvious comparison, or of course it could mess up, guess it happens sometimes in the wild with nibbling deer etc.
Cheers Toke ;-)
Here are a couple of pics after a good plucking sesh. You can see a clear difference in from the pics above, its the nearest two plants from the last photo above.
And this one shows the nearest two still with the majority of fan leaves still on, the 3 plants behind have been seriously plucked.
Any answers to my questions peebs?
Cheers, Toke
Ps, Lifeless, that early finisher looks fookin amazing mate!!
@-tokesome Hey guys, Am I right in thinking that the reason the leaves need to be removed during veg is to achieve the plant shape and more bud sights?
yes you are correct. keep doing it from very early on in veg, and after a few weeks they look like this,
keep removing leaf for a further 3 weeks,and they look like this,
then pop it in flower and they look like this,
picture of new shoots that defoliation creates,
Bob
yes you are correct. keep doing it from very early on in veg, and after a few weeks they look like this,
keep removing leaf for a further 3 weeks,and they look like this,
then pop it in flower and they look like this,
picture of new shoots that defoliation creates,
Bob
growingforfun
Member
i tryed this out on one of my crappy autos i bought to play with, it was a bad thing.... the plant ended up making more leafs to replace the ones i took an i ended up with nearly no bud at all. ended up putting the plant into butter. not saying this is a bad tech, just dident work for that plant. granted the plant was already a pos..
i do plan to try it again tho on sour bubble since its leafs are so huge they will block so many sites
i do plan to try it again tho on sour bubble since its leafs are so huge they will block so many sites
Originally Posted by bigwity :
can i ask why you leave the leaf stem
because theres no need to make it any closer to the main branch. i only want to remove the leaf nothing else,the stem will shrivel up and die on its own in a few days,where it will then fall of naturally,causing no damage to the main stem.
i do what the op suggest and sort of pinch and pluck in the same motion.
Bob
can i ask why you leave the leaf stem
because theres no need to make it any closer to the main branch. i only want to remove the leaf nothing else,the stem will shrivel up and die on its own in a few days,where it will then fall of naturally,causing no damage to the main stem.
i do what the op suggest and sort of pinch and pluck in the same motion.
Bob
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