Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[DrFever]

yo Bud i don;t need to fudge nothing here just for you took some pics start of day 23 from flipping to 12 /12 i will make sure to compare the op's pics to mine when i come chop day as for bud density size and amount by the way 4 plants in 5 x 5 area it will be in my thread lol. i got nothing to prove defoilaters do

and if you like i will challenge any defoilater grower to a 1 k challenge 1 plant or you name plant count name strain just allow me a week or 2 to get a clone or as many plant count challenger would like

 

[DrFever]

Dr.Fever, if you actually used periods at the end of sentences, comas where appropriate, your arguments would at least look more understandable. Above is not a real example, but I edited out to get to the point I want to make. I do however suggest you look back at a few of your posts. You might find some are not even comprehendible.

Now, to my point. Have you even looked once at op's 1st pic in first post? Does it in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER look like he is lacking in top buds? AND he's gaining more in useable LOWER bud!

Now, you're getting UNDER 1.13 gpw.
He's getting 1.2 GPW (and climbing he says but we havent seen the #'s)
Lets for a moment suppose flowering periods and strains are the same. Then his time frame is beating yours.

You will want to make the argument that his veg period is longer. Yet we should not forget, as whodare INSISTS to not accept, for k33f and many others, veg time plays no part in timeline because while ONE flower room is going, the veg room is set in motion and WAITS till flower room is again available. Not everyone has the luxury of 2 flower rooms, short veg, 1 harvest per month. An extremely important aspect of this perpetual that you will want to claim is that your plants will be smaller because of the reduced veg time before going into flower. I will argue that right now so you dont waste your time. You are growing HOW MANY PLANTS per veg? K33f is growing 6 plants in 4x8.

Grow only 6 plants, at 32" squared per plant, 28" high and get 10-12oz per plant, with a total wattage of 1400. Do it using your nondefoliated technique. Show your growing prowess and smash k33f's yield.

I invite you.

again what i find funny is i got 4.75 pounds from 5 plant grow ) in the dead heat of summer uncontrolled room

 

[Bud buster]

again what i find funny is i got 4.75 pounds from 5 plant grow ) in the dead heat of summer uncontrolled room

That doesn't look anything like 2.5 in the last pics showing the 5x5 maybe half that.

 

[Old Soul]

Anyone can lie about numbers, K33f could have been lying about his for all we know. Not to mention he posted the same pic of the same plant over and over again claiming he got 12 oz. off of it, how do we know that is what he got, and what did he get off of the rest of the plants. Veg time may not matter in terms of delaying your flower period, but it definitely does matter in cost of the grow, more veg time means more money spent on electricity, nutrients, etc. I see a lot of claims in this thread but a lack of pictures and evidence that defoliating like k33f does is the sole reason for high yields. Personally, I don't think k33f's buds looked that great either, and to me, it's all about the end product more so than yield. Yield is nice, but if you sacrifice quality it isn't worth it. Many of the pics that others posted did not look like they were defoliated to the point the op did, it seems they did more of a pruning than defoliating. And again, defoliation was not the only technique that k33f used, he supercropped, lst'd, etc as well as defoliated. This is the real point that whodare and Dr. Fever are trying to make. Claiming that defoliation in itself is a high yielding technique is nonsense. Dial in your room, don't overcrowd your plants, use one or a combination of techniques that work for your situation to achieve the yield and quality you desire. The key is finding what works for you and running with it, different strokes for different folks. What works for some will not work for others. I think whodare and Dr. Fever are truly just looking out for newbs who would come into this thread and think this is what they need to do to get a high yield and end up fucking up their grow, getting discouraged and frustrated, possibly quitting, etc. Start simple, get your shit dialed, and then work on yield. For me personally, since I do not monocrop, each grow gets better yield wise as I figure out what height each strain should be when flipped so I end up with an even canopy and don't overcrowd, as that has been a problem for me in the past. Once I hit a point where I don't feel things are getting better, then I will mess with a new technique or possibly switch to vert, etc. This is an interesting topic, but I do not think this thread should be a sticky, very confusing. my two cents.

 

[Bassy59]

Welcome to my world DrFever:

How is it, an all knowing horticulturalist store owner/operator such as yourself doesn't know the simplest of questions on growing indoors yet claims to have this science shit down pat?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=234158&page=6

Then you say 4.75 lbs for 5 plants in 5x8 on 8 week veg, and decided you could add 1k more light, 50% more watts but 10 watts per sq foot LESS, add 80% more area, triple the plant count, shorter veg period, and yield over double the previous?

Are you using the New Math or the Old Math?

Then you go off to say: in all seriousness vert growers would struggle what i yield don;t forget 12 plants 5 week veg and about 7 - 9+ pound harvest dry harvest that is.

Have you even ONCE freaking acknowledged D9 and his CONSISTENT yields of 15-18 oz PER PLANT? and yes, he does a vert setup along with a plethora of others with similar yields. Hell, as far back as 8/30/2010 his avg was 16.75 oz per plant. The man is getting no less than 30% more than you!

You ego is amazing! I am truly confounded. Everywhere you post it's about you being the best and teaching others how it should be done with total disregard to the experience of many countless others.

 

[Bassy59]

@Old Soul, In some respects your preaching to the choir. Had you actually read k33fs posts or even the pdf, he fully explains supercropping, absolutely dialed in environment, know the strains, etc as part of the entire process.

Defoliation in the CONTEXT of THIS thread is defined by k33f and nobody else. You or I or Whodare may personally define it as pruning & training. But what we call it, means nothing. Again, in the context of this thread.

K33f is adamant about newcomers not jumping into this with both feet. He preaches getting everything else dialed in and get some experience first.

He also fully explained this does not effect yield, and that he's been growing for over 30 years!

Now, I can't verify his yield, nor can I verify his years of experience. I can however say he is old enough to have been growing that long. I was fortunate enough to have met him and was given probably 90 mins of his experience in MY grow room. Freely.

As well, there are countless others, D9, lifeless, jrosek, and others that have posted awesome results using this technique.

I personally am still getting dialed in on the process and learning curve. And I am thrilled with my results. My last grow was me best in terms of quality and total yield. I also had a 10oz dry weight plant. And I screwed up my grow with overcrowding and height!

 

[noyd666]

makes' ya head spin a tad,lol back and forth, good for a laugh, abuse not needed though. were' im' from somebody would be lying on the deck by now lol.

 

[Iffy-Caradoc]

Hate

Hate

makes' ya head spin a tad,lol back and forth, good for a laugh, abuse not needed though. were' im' from somebody would be lying on the deck by now lol.

Yeah Noyd, I'm with you. What the fuck is that all about?
Blokes banging dicks & stickin out their chests! LOL

My defention of an 'EXPERT' - An EX is a has-been & a SPURT is a drip under pressure!

Stay safe

 

[Old Soul]

Why do you ASSume I didn't read his posts? I have, here and when he posted this same nonsense on an Arizona Medical Marijuana website trying to sell the tunnels he grows in. His thread title is very clear about Defoliation being a high yield technique. Do you think a newcomer is going to read this whole thread? They only think one thing, how am I gonna grow a bunch of weed. I couldn't even make it through more than about 80 pages without my head hurting and I like to learn and read about new things. I couldn't even find D9 on here, is that how you spell his handle, and never heard of lifeless, saw some of jrosek's posts in this thread but his account has since been deleted.

Where did k33f explain this did not affect yield? I must have missed that one, or didn't make it that far. And yes he did warn newbs against using that, but I doubt most of them would have made it that far to get that point. I am glad you are happy with your results, but like I said, it isn't for everybody and it seems it isn't for every strain either.

My point was to bring to light that all this back and forth is pointless and makes this thread look like a huge joke instead of what sticky threads are supposed to be.

 

[Greyskull]

What
No on give rbdf crap for saying it works for him huh?
Guess its about being right not knowing the truth hahaha

Bunch of brilliant minds apparently.

Proof is in the pudding.

Shit even drfever said selective leaf pruning can be benificial lolol

Locely watching this thread its like watching car wrecks haha

 

[noyd666]

dodge em cars'.

 

[whodare]

Pruning and defoliation are not the same thing....


This thread needs to lose sticky status, what a crap thread to have posted at the top with all that other actually good advice/threads.

 

[Bassy59]

c'mon whodare, I never dodged your questions.

 

[whodare]

I'm sorry, ive lost interest in conversing with you.

You do you, I'll do me.

 

[Bud buster]

So I have been in this thread since its beginning, an remember all the sick photos D9 and K33ftr33z posted up. If they are gone, that sucks, because there was plenty of proof in the photos in my opinion.

Yes sir, I defoliate in Veg, but usually, my plants get less than 10 days of veg. But I am still plucking lower fan leaves all the way through. I flower my untopped SourD ibl Riri at 6 inches, and it results in a 3-4oz monster, 8 per 1K. The ChemD is flowered at 8-10 nodes, topped 3 days before flip. also, 3-4oz per plant, 8 per 1K.

By day 50, there are no leaves with stems left in the canopy. There might be some fans below the canopy, I leave those that are not in wat to add some defense for the plant.

I have not done a side byside, but what I have done is an 8 plant ChemD grow, 1K, with no defoliation at all, averaged 2.5 per plant. 20 oz total. The very next grow, same light, same strain, same veg, but have been defoliating since the plant had roots. Same 63 days flower, averaged 3.5 oz per plant, for 28 oz total. an increase of 8 oz, well worth it.

If your plants are extremely healthy, there is no shock, or extra days of veg needed. Sm-90 and hygrozyme work very well together.

Rbdf
______________

posted this last night. No one even noticed. No pics, but look in my photos to see some SourD that has been dofoilated.

This whole thread is crazy. Two types of people with a voice in this thread. The ones who have tried the method and actually have experience saying it works, and the people who have not tried defoliating at all, claiming there is no way in hell this method could work. I believe the folks so adamantly against the possibility of defoliating are hardwired to believe this. I remember in an old Ed Rosenthal or Greg Green book, not sure, but I remember those guys were TOTALLY AGAINST IT in their books.

I tried it and now I am defoliating any plants destined for the flower room.

Rbdf

Good post and so true.

 

[whodare]

Too bad that's nothing but anecdotal evidence at best.

Not even recreate- able, but don't let the scientific method discourage you gents.

 

[DrFever]

bud buster again it doesn;t matter really what you think i can place 1k or 10 k in a room why cause i can but that is not what its all about my goal now as a grower???? is achieving maximum yields per plant in a 5 x 15 area which is 12 plants this time ???
if i wanted to grow 1200 plants then i would fire up a green house chances of finishing it are slim yea think ???? that 's just looking for trouble.
you probably couldn't grasp the concept of taking care of 200+ plant and grow costs involved etc
Your here blabbing about this guys grow or that guys grow yet your so called grow was not documented lol only pics is outdoor come indoor lol in your old albums give it a break there buddy not one bud on them. you seem like a guy scouring the net copying images
if anyone cares to look at is some outdoor grow you got in your personal gallery or journal not one yield and you think you should even speak out ????? i honestly think your pretty green behind your ears there guy hell i need to find some of my out door pics plants 200 times bigger hahahaha
untill you get a thread up with over 17,000 views and 600 posts and pm;s from fellow members saying thanks your thread is one of the best on this site and its helped me in the direction i want to go.
that is contributing to IC not this bickering over some stupid defoilating thread that is complete nonsense

Old soul is totally right here i came on here to stop this stupidity as well as others but funny how we get slammed by which appears only a few followers of defoilating

We bring in science yet you shrug it off saying well if you didn't try it you no nothing
Remember science means nothing lol
next time you grab that Tylenol for your headache remember science gave you that relief , Next time you fill up your mo ped with gas Science gave you gas

 

[Bud buster]

You both talk science who posted some study's one of them said defoliation increased grape size and flavor I posted some as well that proved it did work timing is the most important factor.

You talk of science yet know nothing of it because science is studying and experimenting to determine results the concept escapes you.
Science should be evolving we would learn nothing if it was static like your closed minds screaming the world is flat when you have been shown it's not.

 

[Enlighten]

2.5 years is more than enough time to produce some scientific results. Where are the side by sides of a defoliated vs non? Even put a flowering clone in there which will blow both away.

 

[whodare]

You expect science from a bunch of hippy stoners who think they know everything?