Depends on usage. If all my friends gather around me in a semicircle, I can still accurately describe them as my "circle" of friends.
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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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Depends on usage. If all my friends gather around me in a semicircle, I can still accurately describe them as my "circle" of friends.
You could see it real well if you do it yourself.
First off... It was not me who brought up any of those studies... so fuck your asinine insinuation that I was comparing cannabis and oranges. The one guilty of that is you're little cohort, huntingbb.
secondly... lol at your straw grasping semantic twisting bullshit. A semicircle is not a circle and this thread's title is contrary to any correct definition of defoliation, and is proven to be a hit and miss technique, not a 'high yield technique'.
guess you only see anal because you're being such an ass.
btw... learn how to properly use [/quote] tags.
bs0
Active member
For years many people have been selective breeding to reduce flowering time and increase yield.
How could they have all been so silly and not realized all they need to do is get out the bonsai scissors and cut all the plants leaves off!
Wake up to reality
I imagine you think that CO2 supplementation doesn't speed up flowering either? Or higher temperatures? For whatever reason, leaf stripping speeds up flowering on the strains I have used it on.
Most the people who have given 'leaf pruning' have experienced the same. It's not a huge difference, but I have seen about a week faster fairly regularly.
Hence: my experience has shown to me that it can work. And your assumption has shown you that it is impossible. Personally I put lend more credence to my experience than to your assumption.
^
defoliation works to make it finish early, but you are sacrificing quality. Removing all the leaves is removing the plants food factories, so of course it will starve to death earlier. it doesnt make it yield more though. what makes the bottom nugs yield more because more light gets there. so you are better off keeping your bottom area cleaned out so the light can focus only on the canopy in the effective light range, and or do a double harvest (cut the top finished nugs first); but this is only true for some strains. For instance my sensi star needed a clean under brush to focus on canopy, but my lvpk that I grow is the opposite. She distributes her energy better. it doesnt matter if the bottom nugs get light or not, they are just as dense as the top. the sacrifice is that i dont get arm sized colas, but over all she has a great yield.
defoliation works to make it finish early, but you are sacrificing quality. Removing all the leaves is removing the plants food factories, so of course it will starve to death earlier. it doesnt make it yield more though. what makes the bottom nugs yield more because more light gets there. so you are better off keeping your bottom area cleaned out so the light can focus only on the canopy in the effective light range, and or do a double harvest (cut the top finished nugs first); but this is only true for some strains. For instance my sensi star needed a clean under brush to focus on canopy, but my lvpk that I grow is the opposite. She distributes her energy better. it doesnt matter if the bottom nugs get light or not, they are just as dense as the top. the sacrifice is that i dont get arm sized colas, but over all she has a great yield.
bs0
Active member
We all know that you didn't ever try.
Did you not notice my post 130? Detailing how you went from never doing it to having done an entire run and gotten mold over the course of 4 days? And having never taken any pictures? Oh yeah... You probably ignored it because it didn't fit your personal narrative of reality. Sigh.
lol, quit getting so pissed off... its the INTERNET, and in this particular thread your (a) troll(ing)!
I gotta admit the semicircle was kinda brilliant, but tbh i was curious if you would even take the bait on that search, apologize for trolling the troll. Please don't be mad, i KNOW i didn't search for cannabis links!
Also, please don't downplay a nice ass, my gf wiggles nicely ~_^
Anyway you declined my challenge to put up or shut up, so plz leave the thread? We're gonna keep defoliating no matter what you say! And for me, it looks interesting, this is gonna take months to get down, and I gotta build in approx 45-60 days veg to do it right -- instead of 15 to 30! but if one has patience it's easy to see the only thing that really REALLY changes is not the amount of power, but the yield, and the total plant count, and the total time in veg. Hopefully one would not be running every single square foot of space already in their veg room, this could be disastrous!
well i went to your thread to find some of your flowering pix, figure i'd check out the leaves on your final product, if you wanna post that would be nice - so instead 204 of your own posts later i found some great advice:
now i know we can agree on that.
Hopefully your done trolling because i'm done with this argument, your not listening to logic - so i cannot as much as i would ♥ to call it a discussion, sorry
ps. when referring to me plz put my name in blue - its so nice
nothing remotely troll like about me or my postings... you seem to be projecting.
If you don't like reading my posting... stop reading when you see my name and avatar next to a post, and skip to the next non-h3ad post.
If you don't like reading my posting... stop reading when you see my name and avatar next to a post, and skip to the next non-h3ad post.
I first posted in this thread about 3 months ago. The post says "I have now fallen to the defoliated side."
About 1 month later I posted that I noticed a deficiency showing up in the leaves of my plant which I have never noticed before. No one commented or gave any advice.
Then I asked if people were sure this method works and it wasn't just an illusion. No reply.
Then I defoliated the leaves showing deficiency, and the healthy leaves were now affected. So I asked if I should defoliate healthy leaves or just unhealthy ones. No response.
I began to make guesses as to what was actually going on with this method to make defoliating useful. Hardly any answer.
It wasn't until Grat3fulh3ad stopped in and began casting doubts on this method that anyone even began to have any interest in my failed defoliation attempts.
In my opinion, defoliating is just not useful. I would love to see a properly run side by side to convince me otherwise.
Until then I will have to settle for proponent of this method labeling opponents of the method Trolls and Liars rather than doing any productive public research.
Why would someone who does not have success with this method show a side by side?
We are not trying to prove it does not work. We are trying to see proof it DOES work.
About 1 month later I posted that I noticed a deficiency showing up in the leaves of my plant which I have never noticed before. No one commented or gave any advice.
Then I asked if people were sure this method works and it wasn't just an illusion. No reply.
Then I defoliated the leaves showing deficiency, and the healthy leaves were now affected. So I asked if I should defoliate healthy leaves or just unhealthy ones. No response.
I began to make guesses as to what was actually going on with this method to make defoliating useful. Hardly any answer.
It wasn't until Grat3fulh3ad stopped in and began casting doubts on this method that anyone even began to have any interest in my failed defoliation attempts.
In my opinion, defoliating is just not useful. I would love to see a properly run side by side to convince me otherwise.
Until then I will have to settle for proponent of this method labeling opponents of the method Trolls and Liars rather than doing any productive public research.
Why would someone who does not have success with this method show a side by side?
We are not trying to prove it does not work. We are trying to see proof it DOES work.
then convince h3ad or some other experienced naysayer to do it. I saw enough to see the potential.
i'm not willing to stunt my plants, extend my veg time, or increase my plant numbers, so you're barking up the wrong tree expecting me to do so.
Congratulations, everyone! This thread has now gone down the path of many others and degenerated into an impossible situation where we have several groups.
We cannot agree on whether it works in some situations or not.
We cannot even agree on definitions.
One group wants to discuss the possibilities of this technique, try it, explore it, talk about it, measure it, analyze it, play with it, whatever.
Right or wrong this is what they want to do. Some of the folks in this group have been successful actually using variations of whatever you want to call it.
The other group is apparently very opposed to this technique for a lot of reasons. I will admit some sound arguments have emerged from this group.
I can understand you being opposed to something. Stating the reason's for your opposition for the record. And then moving on.
And then we come to another type of player in this little drama.
I cannot understand why some of you are even here posting on this thread.
You have no real interest in this matter.
You just don't like the idea.
Or you have a previous axe to grind.
Or you are simply one of those pathetic people who seek vicarious thrills through the exploits of others and just want to be entertained.
What I propose now is that those who are against this and do not want to participate in a constructive conversation about trying to learn how this technique may or may not help them, please just move on.
Please let others who want to pursue this do so in peace.
It will not be viewed as a capitulation of your principles or a repudiation of your arguments.
Instead it will add to your reputations as reasonable, intelligent men.
d9
We cannot agree on whether it works in some situations or not.
We cannot even agree on definitions.
One group wants to discuss the possibilities of this technique, try it, explore it, talk about it, measure it, analyze it, play with it, whatever.
Right or wrong this is what they want to do. Some of the folks in this group have been successful actually using variations of whatever you want to call it.
The other group is apparently very opposed to this technique for a lot of reasons. I will admit some sound arguments have emerged from this group.
I can understand you being opposed to something. Stating the reason's for your opposition for the record. And then moving on.
And then we come to another type of player in this little drama.
I cannot understand why some of you are even here posting on this thread.
You have no real interest in this matter.
You just don't like the idea.
Or you have a previous axe to grind.
Or you are simply one of those pathetic people who seek vicarious thrills through the exploits of others and just want to be entertained.
What I propose now is that those who are against this and do not want to participate in a constructive conversation about trying to learn how this technique may or may not help them, please just move on.
Please let others who want to pursue this do so in peace.
It will not be viewed as a capitulation of your principles or a repudiation of your arguments.
Instead it will add to your reputations as reasonable, intelligent men.
d9
Oh for fuck sakes... Next round i am going to show it . 1 plant defoliated one non.... We will see which one grows bigger nugs....
Fuck im growing tired of this argument....If anybody wants to debunk my side by side... go ahead i don't care.I know how to grow, and i can replicate results OVER AND OVER AGAIN..my test will be as close to as perfect as i can make it.Itwillbe a controlled experiment just so we can observe the results in a constructive manner. Some people grow. Others push the envelope. I am one of those people...
Here is the problem. Ive already stated it.. There is way to much miscommunucation on how to properly do this to gain from it... Lookit these newbies wrecking their crops or massively stunting them cause its posted as a HIGH YIELD technique. the technique is being taken out of context and people are getting BAD information and guessing on how to do it..
I understand what the overall goal is.The experienced growers understand what the overall goal is..There are alot of them in here. insulting their knowledge?!?!?! the best growers are the ones with experience. and yes.. I grow big fucking donkey dicks.. using not just lollypoping but LST HST and heavy pruning. If i feel like it i grow scrog, if im bored i grow trees, and for maximum yeild i grow multiple top plants... I have done it all... so be careful with assumptions. How do i know how to achieve maximum yeild... I have been there done that.. Have you?
I already know which plant will win... But hey if i need to prove it im going to.. because nobody has done a fair side by side grow.
I agree with both angles.. But i dont agree with the low blow shots taken at experienced growers...that's not cool!
Fuck im growing tired of this argument....If anybody wants to debunk my side by side... go ahead i don't care.I know how to grow, and i can replicate results OVER AND OVER AGAIN..my test will be as close to as perfect as i can make it.Itwillbe a controlled experiment just so we can observe the results in a constructive manner. Some people grow. Others push the envelope. I am one of those people...
Here is the problem. Ive already stated it.. There is way to much miscommunucation on how to properly do this to gain from it... Lookit these newbies wrecking their crops or massively stunting them cause its posted as a HIGH YIELD technique. the technique is being taken out of context and people are getting BAD information and guessing on how to do it..
I understand what the overall goal is.The experienced growers understand what the overall goal is..There are alot of them in here. insulting their knowledge?!?!?! the best growers are the ones with experience. and yes.. I grow big fucking donkey dicks.. using not just lollypoping but LST HST and heavy pruning. If i feel like it i grow scrog, if im bored i grow trees, and for maximum yeild i grow multiple top plants... I have done it all... so be careful with assumptions. How do i know how to achieve maximum yeild... I have been there done that.. Have you?
I already know which plant will win... But hey if i need to prove it im going to.. because nobody has done a fair side by side grow.
I agree with both angles.. But i dont agree with the low blow shots taken at experienced growers...that's not cool!
That would make too much sense! It is obvious that some people just want to argue and have zero experience with Defoliation. I made a list of the Pro's and Con's. There are plenty of Cons...it is not a perfect method for everyone. So then I still get called a liar, even with all of the negative aspects of Defoliation that I listed. Facts are it works for some people, that is all that matters. The problem is that the people who have tried it and post results...still get called liars. Sadly, those people get off on making claims without proof. We are the ones with proof...yet we are making it all up!
Wish I had pics
From my experience defoliation is usefull and useless depending your type of grow
For example in Stadium Growing i.e. like seats in a stadium your shelves would be, Here NO defoliation is necessary as light reaches the whole plant quite evenly. Also I have noticed I can grow less plants with equal or higher yeilds using Stadiums Style Growing.
On the other hand, when I grew on the floor I had to defoliate my girls so that light would get into the lower branches. My yeild on a 6 light system went up by a whole pound when I started to defoliate.
To all the theoretical shit on this thread ONLY experience speaks, and it speaks volumes. IF any you have never personally experienced defoliation results then please please get the @#$% off your high horse.
Defoliation has not reduced quality by a single iota. Again experience
please explain the benefit of having lower branches that get no light?????? Pruning them off will not make your higher branches any larger to justify the prune(Prune your immediate bottom branches that are scrage). So the only answer is light.
Any idiot that has studied BOTANY would know that for every 1% increase in light a 1% increase of yeild can be noticed. This apparent for most plants such as Tomatoes, Peppers, Cuc's. If you would like to argue this then realize that British Columbia Hot House Growers have the WORLDS highest yeilds. Are techniques are second to none, especially Oxford, Florida or whoever wants to spout off at the mouth.
So I strongly suggest contact the BC Hot House Society or whatever the are called and get a growers manual for Tomatoes, Peppers or Cuc's and learn for yourselves what Defoliation is all about and why it is beneficial.
Grat3 I mean this when I say it you are the biggest distorter of truth I have ever come across.
From my experience defoliation is usefull and useless depending your type of grow
For example in Stadium Growing i.e. like seats in a stadium your shelves would be, Here NO defoliation is necessary as light reaches the whole plant quite evenly. Also I have noticed I can grow less plants with equal or higher yeilds using Stadiums Style Growing.
On the other hand, when I grew on the floor I had to defoliate my girls so that light would get into the lower branches. My yeild on a 6 light system went up by a whole pound when I started to defoliate.
To all the theoretical shit on this thread ONLY experience speaks, and it speaks volumes. IF any you have never personally experienced defoliation results then please please get the @#$% off your high horse.
Defoliation has not reduced quality by a single iota. Again experience
please explain the benefit of having lower branches that get no light?????? Pruning them off will not make your higher branches any larger to justify the prune(Prune your immediate bottom branches that are scrage). So the only answer is light.
Any idiot that has studied BOTANY would know that for every 1% increase in light a 1% increase of yeild can be noticed. This apparent for most plants such as Tomatoes, Peppers, Cuc's. If you would like to argue this then realize that British Columbia Hot House Growers have the WORLDS highest yeilds. Are techniques are second to none, especially Oxford, Florida or whoever wants to spout off at the mouth.
So I strongly suggest contact the BC Hot House Society or whatever the are called and get a growers manual for Tomatoes, Peppers or Cuc's and learn for yourselves what Defoliation is all about and why it is beneficial.
Grat3 I mean this when I say it you are the biggest distorter of truth I have ever come across.
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Good deal, but are when are you going to start defoliating? In VEG or Flower? Because if you do it in VEG, the plants will not be the same height. Would not be a fair experiment if one plant is much closer to the light. Try it in Flower after the stretch, then everything will be the same height. Don't be so confident that you know which one will win...you may be surprised!Oh for fuck sakes... Next round i am going to show it . 1 plant defoliated one non.... We will see which one grows bigger nugs....
Fuck im growing tired of this argument....If anybody wants to debunk my side by side... go ahead i don't care.I know how to grow, and i can replicate results OVER AND OVER AGAIN..my test will be as close to as perfect as i can make it.Itwillbe a controlled experiment just so we can observe the results in a constructive manner. Some people grow. Others push the envelope. I am one of those people...
Here is the problem. Ive already stated it.. There is way to much miscommunucation on how to properly do this to gain from it... Lookit these newbies wrecking their crops or massively stunting them cause its posted as a HIGH YIELD technique. the technique is being taken out of context and people are getting BAD information and guessing on how to do it..
I understand what the overall goal is.The experienced growers understand what the overall goal is..There are alot of them in here. insulting their knowledge?!?!?! the best growers are the ones with experience. and yes.. I grow big fucking donkey dicks.. using not just lollypoping but LST HST and heavy pruning. If i feel like it i grow scrog, if im bored i grow trees, and for maximum yeild i grow multiple top plants... I have done it all... so be careful with assumptions. How do i know how to achieve maximum yeild... I have been there done that.. Have you?
I already know which plant will win... But hey if i need to prove it im going to.. because nobody has done a fair side by side grow.
I agree with both angles.. But i dont agree with the low blow shots taken at experienced growers...that's not cool!
I have grow every which way as well. Each method has its pluses and minuses. Thank you for offering to do the experiment, If I had the extra room I would do a side by side as well. But I know it helps in certain situations. I wish more people were open to trying to debunk it by trying, rather than with just words. I have ZERO reason to lie, and have tons of experience. Fact is it works for some people and others it does not....but to flat out say it is worthless like some are claiming is just stupid.
Nobody said you have to defoliate in VEG. If you only do it in Flower it will not add veg time, stunt plants or increase your plant numbers....so that is not a good excuse. For some reason you have it in your head that you have to defoliate in VEG.
If you read my post earlier today I listed the Pro's and Con's.
You are 100 percent right about one thing tho...Defoliating in VEG ONLY will stunt your plant. It will be shorter, no doubt about it. But if you Veg for 8 weeks and have height issues like me...that is a good thing. I will be the first to admit, if I had your set up...with a few 1000 watters I would not attempt defoliating in VEG EVER. If I only had to Veg 3 weeks I would never defoliate in VEG EVER. I would however, try it one some Flowering plants after the stretch...and so could anyone else that doubts it works.
Defoliation should never be recommended in Veg, trust me I tried it and it was stupid.
Trust me it will be a fair comparison.. I'm not using it in veg because that, i find totally unusable in my grow space. I'd rather prune them to make them grow the way i want.ie advanced pruning technique.. not with leaf removal..
It will be done in flower on multiple top grow.. The only difference will be defoliating. they will receive the same amount of pruning and training so that they are the SAME. the defoilation will take place up untill the 3rd week of flower.. then i will not touch them again untill harvest. This needs to be a controlled test.. so i will only do this in flower, because quite honestly its the only time i could imagine it to be beneficial.
Im all about efficiency.. so statements like stunting your grow on purpose or using this technique to increase bud sites....Is highly inefficient and stupid in my opinion.
I am never surprised. I know what to expect from my actions becuase i have been there,done that. This test will begin after Christmas.
It will be done in flower on multiple top grow.. The only difference will be defoliating. they will receive the same amount of pruning and training so that they are the SAME. the defoilation will take place up untill the 3rd week of flower.. then i will not touch them again untill harvest. This needs to be a controlled test.. so i will only do this in flower, because quite honestly its the only time i could imagine it to be beneficial.
Im all about efficiency.. so statements like stunting your grow on purpose or using this technique to increase bud sites....Is highly inefficient and stupid in my opinion.
I am never surprised. I know what to expect from my actions becuase i have been there,done that. This test will begin after Christmas.
Page 1 says begin defoliating in VEG.
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