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Deer meat mystery: 10 men 'violently' ill after wild venison meal
- Thread starter Green Squall
- Start date
M
moose eater
With ALL dead critters (those killed by a Kenworth -or- a Winchester), it's all about how long it's been dead (Bone soured? Rotted and infected?), how it died, (Infections? Contagions?), and how it was processed when it was dressed or butchered.
You may find reports of folks who were starving, salvaging wolf-killed game and 'other', eating the meat, and becoming ill to varying degrees. You'll also likely find thousands of reports of moose and other critters taken from the roadsides in Alaska, and feeding the hungry or needy quite nicely, with zero negative consequences, other than for the initial vehicle damage.
A fellow who died a tragic death up near the foot-hills of the Brooks Range about 35 years ago, was a neighbor of friends. I'm trying hard to remember his name, and I'm blanking on it. He wanted to spend some time in the bush, accidentally waved off the pilot who was checking on him, and had (in a statement of misguided political disposition) initially thrown away most of his ammunition into a muskeg pond, shorlty after arriving at his camp spot.
Later, when starving, he found a caribou carcass floating (and I think bloated; bad sign in ANY case) in a half-frozen pond. In his journal he reported becoming quite ill after eating it.
He later died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, delivered with his last cartridge, after he'd begun a slow death of freezing up, and was beginning to lose the use of his limbs. Back in about 1983 or so.
We used his case in an abnormal psych class in later under-grad school. His hand-writing had changed markedly (frost-bite versus evidence of a schizotypal disorder), and we debated whether or not self-induced death was always a mark of mental illness, versus a pragmatic outcome to a shitty circumstance. I voted the latter. He was screwed big time, and chose the faster way out of a circumstance that would only get worse.
If you don't know how long a critter has been dead, you probably shouldn't eat it.
Edit: I want to say his name was Carl/Karl McCune.. something like that. As evidence of his previous intentions for future life, he had a 1-million point cribbage game going with a Dead Head I knew who lived near his cabin near town. That's a LONG crib game... left unfinished.
You may find reports of folks who were starving, salvaging wolf-killed game and 'other', eating the meat, and becoming ill to varying degrees. You'll also likely find thousands of reports of moose and other critters taken from the roadsides in Alaska, and feeding the hungry or needy quite nicely, with zero negative consequences, other than for the initial vehicle damage.
A fellow who died a tragic death up near the foot-hills of the Brooks Range about 35 years ago, was a neighbor of friends. I'm trying hard to remember his name, and I'm blanking on it. He wanted to spend some time in the bush, accidentally waved off the pilot who was checking on him, and had (in a statement of misguided political disposition) initially thrown away most of his ammunition into a muskeg pond, shorlty after arriving at his camp spot.
Later, when starving, he found a caribou carcass floating (and I think bloated; bad sign in ANY case) in a half-frozen pond. In his journal he reported becoming quite ill after eating it.
He later died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, delivered with his last cartridge, after he'd begun a slow death of freezing up, and was beginning to lose the use of his limbs. Back in about 1983 or so.
We used his case in an abnormal psych class in later under-grad school. His hand-writing had changed markedly (frost-bite versus evidence of a schizotypal disorder), and we debated whether or not self-induced death was always a mark of mental illness, versus a pragmatic outcome to a shitty circumstance. I voted the latter. He was screwed big time, and chose the faster way out of a circumstance that would only get worse.
If you don't know how long a critter has been dead, you probably shouldn't eat it.
Edit: I want to say his name was Carl/Karl McCune.. something like that. As evidence of his previous intentions for future life, he had a 1-million point cribbage game going with a Dead Head I knew who lived near his cabin near town. That's a LONG crib game... left unfinished.
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where do you get a recipe for whale? i can see it now..."broiled whale, feeds 600 close friends. if relatives stop by, toss in a squid or two..."
Green Squall
Well-known member
where do you get a recipe for whale? i can see it now..."broiled whale, feeds 600 close friends. if relatives stop by, toss in a squid or two..."
I hear it looks and tastes more like beef than something from the sea.
Few years ago a Porbeagle shark washed up on the beach in the harbor and a bunch of the local immigrants guys that work the docks were cutting it steaks from it lol.
M
moose eater
where do you get a recipe for whale? i can see it now..."broiled whale, feeds 600 close friends. if relatives stop by, toss in a squid or two..."
Off the west and northwest coast of Alaska, both bowhead and beluga (I prefer beluga, as it's more rich) are sliced into smaller cubes or slices, and eaten raw; a fatty interior, with a more chewy/tough, black exterior (skin). It's typically referred to as muktuk; not all folks care for it. it's kept raw and frozen as a rule.
I like it a fair bit.
There's a boiled whale meat dish that I forget the name of. The whale is cut into smaller cubes, and boiled, but only when fresh, as a rule. I've been gifted it several times by a fellow from Anuktuvik Pass (Anuktuvik is an inland Inupiat/Inupiaq Eskimo village that began as a nomadic hunting camp long ago, as the N. Slope caribou would migrate through there. 'Anuktuvik'/'Anaktuvik' means "where the caribou shit." Seriously).
Parties of hunters go out in relatively small whaling boats to kill whale still (strictly a Native/First Nations band gig, but if you're close to someone in that/those circle(s), being gifted whale or being invited to the harvest party is fairly common).
And in many/some of the villages up that way, they've (long ago) learned that the kind weed was/is preferable to alcohol, which has left a trail of harm in such places. Lots of supporters of cannabis among those places to party with when visiting a successful whaling season.. Though now the monetary issues of remote cannabis are causing similar but different harms, too.
W
Water-
I hear that it tastes like moose. Makes sense since it's a Mammal. Interesting that their diet still doesn't make it tastes much different than it's terrestrial cousins. For some reason I assumed it would.
Moose?how the fuck does that work?I know it's a mammal but still.
M
moose eater
I don't understand your question, shithawk.
Water- In my opinion, muktuk (raw whale meat) tastes nothing like moose.
It's not extremely fishy, but more of a unique 'sea' flavor (not anything like something else to compare it to; different from raw frozen walrus meat as well, which is much more red, and can carry trichinosis), and there's a richness to the fatty part. The more firm/harder skin part gets chewed down to a much smaller piece, but there's always a bit of what 'feels' like gristle left that is swallowed.
The fatty part has a pinkish hue to the white, while the fin meat tends to be more white, and less fatty.
I suspect many people who dislike the taste, may also actually/instead, dislike the consistency.
The fin meat is often cut a bit differently than the rest, often coming in long stripes, more or less square at the ends, but long, with skin on both ends, so it has a -longer- strip of whitish tissue in the middle (which is a bit more fibrous than the fatty parts of the rest), and there's black 'skin' at either end.
I was out with someone fishing halibut once, maybe 10 or 14 years ago, in the Gulf of Alaska, and in a bag he had some bowhead fin meat. I was elated to be among others who ate muktuk and had access, and asked how old it was. He replied that it was fairly fresh, and had recently been given to him, stating it was for chumming. At the thought of him wasting such a gift by chumming with it, I asked if I might dig into the bag, and began eating his 'bait.'
I'm sure it was entertaining for a couple folks on-board, but feeding it to the halibut, or using it to lure them closer, to me was a crime... Perhaps literally.
All these sea mammals taste like sea mammals, nothing else, no fucking chicken flavors. All my inlaws are Inupiat (far northern eskimos). I hunted whales, walrus, seals, polar bears caribou, musk ox and grizz in the 70s and 80s. I've ate them all. A whale that washes up on the beach is called a floater. The only part that's any good is the muktuk (the skin and a half inch layer of blubber attached to it) and it will have a fermented taste. a lot of cases of salmonella poisoning happen nowadays when fermenting sea mammals because they use 5 gallon plastic buckets instead of traditional containers and methods. Both bear and walrus meat usually have Trichinella worms in the meat. Trichinosis is some bad shit and freezing or cooking meat doesn't always work. Polar bear liver is some toxic shit because of the high level of vitamin D. Have a little cut on your hand and get some liver blood in it while gutting the bear and your fucked. As far as all other animals you plan to eat the first thing you look at while gutting it is the liver. Look for lesions, puss bubbles or hard white areas. The liver looks bad that just leave the animal there and take nothing. I've seen people there eat some nasty looking rotting old meat. As long as it doesn't have have trichinella or salmonella then it's all about your mindset and your stomach. If you can keep it down then it's good. If your willpower to eat it is high then your stomach will decide if you should keep it or throw it up. You have no chance of eating what some of these people with life long training can eat. Your mind won't let you eat it. You'll pick the hairs and crap off the piece of meat to eat it while they just eat it as is and look at you like your weird. You'll clean the guts out of fish before eating while they leave them in and look at you like you are weird. You'll clean the guts from your ducks and geese and freeze the meat and they will hang them by the neck to blow in the wind and rot before eating them. If a piece of meat looks green and putrid then cut the bad layer off and eat what's underneath. No trichinella or salmonella then bad meat is all in your mind. The stomach decides then.
W
Water-
Thought it sounded strange and wrong. Thanks for the info. Great post!
Green Squall
Well-known member
Whale meat for sale in Japan
M
moose eater
The Japanese are among the last of the commercial whalers, and they take some serious ridicule from others for it. There've been (limited) times I've heard derogatory references to the Japanese by some Inupiat folks, specifically relative to commercial whaling.
The difference being what amounts to wholesale subsistence harvests that feed villages, and allow for gifting of meat down the chain, to extended family and friends, versus commercial harvesting.
It was years upon years (hundreds) of relatively unrestricted commercial harvesting of whales that led to the condition of their populations today, and the groups and countries that have banded together to end commercial (and sometimes Aboriginal subsistence) harvesting altogether.
Most food consumed traditionally by coastal Aboriginal folks had a stout fat component to it. Fat and protein; food groups to stave off harsh conditions. And for the commercial whalers, the blubber was made into everything from lamp oil to soap, and even cosmetics. The Eskimo (Yupik and Inupiat/Inupiaq) used the fat for oil, as well as food.
Edit: That's not muktuk in the photo, by the way, but rather meat.
Search 'Barrow whale harvest,' and look for pics of the whales being cut up on shore.
Green Squall
Well-known member
And rightly so! Along with the Taiji dolphin drive hunt. Both are practices that need to be retired in this day and age at least in my opinion. As for the Inuit and other indigenous groups, I have no problem with their annual whale hunt.
M
moose eater
Stoned40years wrote:
>>>”””Trichinosis is some bad shit and freezing or cooking meat doesn't always work.”””<<<
Yep, both the trichinosis in bear, as well as in sea mammals up here, often can’t be ‘cold-cured’ like domestic pork can be.
Very similar issue, but different. One can be dealt with by freezing, and the other not as much. But they’re both trichinosis. FDA and Ak Fish & Game advise about this.
>>>”””the first thing you look at while gutting it is the liver”””<<<
Best general internal indicator of health in the animal; nice 'sharp' crisp edges, no bloating, no lesions, no white tumors.
>>>”””Trichinosis is some bad shit and freezing or cooking meat doesn't always work.”””<<<
Yep, both the trichinosis in bear, as well as in sea mammals up here, often can’t be ‘cold-cured’ like domestic pork can be.
Very similar issue, but different. One can be dealt with by freezing, and the other not as much. But they’re both trichinosis. FDA and Ak Fish & Game advise about this.
>>>”””the first thing you look at while gutting it is the liver”””<<<
Best general internal indicator of health in the animal; nice 'sharp' crisp edges, no bloating, no lesions, no white tumors.
I'm
We have soup fin sharks here in Cali.....mmmmmm. Yeehaw....but we use most of the shark not just fins...back in the day whale oil was great for machining/ drilling metal...I actually liked the smell...road kill has fed quite a few people in Maine..if it's real fresh or cool out best....had a few deer and shared a baby moose once...
We have soup fin sharks here in Cali.....mmmmmm. Yeehaw....but we use most of the shark not just fins...back in the day whale oil was great for machining/ drilling metal...I actually liked the smell...road kill has fed quite a few people in Maine..if it's real fresh or cool out best....had a few deer and shared a baby moose once...
