Dankwolfs rks breeding project and breeding info discussion

[GoatCheese]

1st: cali-o from old stock (not from a seed company)

This strain is well known for a skunk rks/citrus aroma . my goal is to isolate the sativa side of this strain beacuse i belive how it went down is people were growing a skunk (sativa) and wanted a earlyer finishing plant so they crossed it to a kush (indica) not careing about smell and the citrus they added (fits time line) . i belive this older stock will be the best choice for the male due to the easy identafaction of the skunk side of the gene pool (the sativa side lol )..

Hey Dankwolf.
I just made this info post about Sam Skunkman's Skunk#1 (Afghan/Columbian Gold X Acapulco Gold) on another similar thread and thought you'd might like to see the info as well..
It might also help with some of the original RKS debate you might see developping ..it has happenned few times.

It wasn't a sativa that brought the RKS-smell into Sam's Skunk, it was the Mazari i Sharif-afghani he used.

Here's some replies written by Sam regarding the make-up and breeding project of the original Skunk#1
..i understand that Cali-O is a Skunk#1 selection?

Anyways good luck with the project!
Here we go:

Q: "Sam, do you think the RKS was a Colombian/Afghan pheno or was it a mexican/afghan pheno? Or was it somewhere in the middle? It seems that a simple Afghan/Colombian cross could bring about some skunky individuals in my opinion."

It was an Afghan/Columbian Gold X Acapulco Gold. This is well known.

-SamS

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1865412&postcount=504


Q: "sam...was the afghan or columbian you used really skunky as hell to begin with?"

The Afghan was.
-SamS

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1865299&postcount=502


Q: "From which region of Afghanistan did the 'Afghan' in 'Skunk #1' come from?"

Mazar, but then crossed with a Columbian, then selfed, then the hybrid crossed with Acapulco Gold to make it a bit earlier.
But to be honest in the same seed batch from Afghanistan you will find many phenos, remember they may have thousands of females that the seeds came from, as well as thousands of males hitting every one of the females, so that is a lot of possible combos.....

[...]
-SamS

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1528952&postcount=163

Q:"By selfed do you mean you made feminised Mazar x Colombian seeds then crossed one of these females to an Acapulco male?"

[...]

No one made feminized seeds until after 1990, I selfed the MazarXColombian hybrids to other MazarXColombian hybrids. This was in the early 70's.

-SamS

https://www.icmag.com/ic/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1530714

..and then later Sam bred it into the sweeter, fruity version of Skunk#1

Peace

 

[Dog Star]

Q: "sam...was the afghan or columbian you used really skunky as hell to begin with?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman View Post
The Afghan was.
-SamS

This quote i found very interesting cause in cross with Valley Ghash and Sour Bubble
i founded a pheno that haved skunky terps..

Alien Gift

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

Hey Dankwolf.
I just made this info post about Sam Skunkman's Skunk#1 (Afghan/Columbian Gold X Acapulco Gold) on another similar thread and thought you'd might like to see the info as well..
It might also help with some of the original RKS debate you might see developping ..it has happenned few times.

It wasn't a sativa that brought the RKS-smell into Sam's Skunk, it was the Mazari i Sharif-afghani he used.

Here's some replies written by Sam regarding the make-up and breeding project of the original Skunk#1
..i understand that Cali-O is a Skunk#1 selection?

Anyways good luck with the project!
Here we go:

Q: "Sam, do you think the RKS was a Colombian/Afghan pheno or was it a mexican/afghan pheno? Or was it somewhere in the middle? It seems that a simple Afghan/Colombian cross could bring about some skunky individuals in my opinion."

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1865412&postcount=504




Q: "sam...was the afghan or columbian you used really skunky as hell to begin with?"

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1865299&postcount=502


Q: "From which region of Afghanistan did the 'Afghan' in 'Skunk #1' come from?"

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1528952&postcount=163

Q:"By selfed do you mean you made feminised Mazar x Colombian seeds then crossed one of these females to an Acapulco male?"


https://www.icmag.com/ic/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1530714

..and then later Sam bred it into the sweeter, fruity version of Skunk#1

Peace

Whats intesting Mel Frank gave skunkman ghani#1 and durban....

Sam said the skunk was bred out before relase , i get 2 things from this .... no rks in sk1 and why was it even called skunk if skunk was bred out ...
no rks can be found in any post amsterdam sk1 thats been proven , cheese aint skunk ..
plus dutch have no idea what skunks smell like ... there are no skunks in holland lol

Earley acrid ghanis are most likely what RKS is or was ...
DJ short mentions same thing when he talked about old skunks

RKS was more nose than flavor ... todays strains are way louder skunky flavor wise than the old stuff ....

 

[MJPassion]

Sensi star has potenial if thats in stardawg.

These two varieties are completely unrelated...
Stardawg may have potential but Sensi Star... I think not.

Using genetics that have had the skunk breed out should prove fruitless.

Terps is terps is terps.... THCV.
The same clone taken from one grow to another is going to show a bit of variation but the terps will be the same. They could be muted or enhanced but a skunk is a skunk is a skunk. Nutrients are taken up exactly the same wether in hydro or grown organically. This argument is mute unless you've got proof via several side by side grows done profesionally using scientific methods of observation. I'm not a hydro guy but I've had hydro that beats the shit out of a lot of organicly grown product. I do grow organically but I also the opinions/choices of others. Especially when they're making choices for themselves based upon research they've done versus being a sock puppet taking orders.

 

[Galactic]

Nothing will come of this and thread will fizzle out. Youve been here long enough MJ

 

[Thcvhunter]

These two varieties are completely unrelated...
Stardawg may have potential but Sensi Star... I think not.

Using genetics that have had the skunk breed out should prove fruitless.

Terps is terps is terps.... THCV.
The same clone taken from one grow to another is going to show a bit of variation but the terps will be the same. They could be muted or enhanced but a skunk is a skunk is a skunk. Nutrients are taken up exactly the same wether in hydro or grown organically. This argument is mute unless you've got proof via several side by side grows done profesionally using scientific methods of observation. I'm not a hydro guy but I've had hydro that beats the shit out of a lot of organicly grown product. I do grow organically but I also the opinions/choices of others. Especially when they're making choices for themselves based upon research they've done versus being a sock puppet taking orders.

Lol
Im definitely not a sock puppet. And nobody gives me orders.
Respect?

 

[Dankwolf]

Hey Dankwolf.
I just made this info post about Sam Skunkman's Skunk#1 (Afghan/Columbian Gold X Acapulco Gold) on another similar thread and thought you'd might like to see the info as well..
It might also help with some of the original RKS debate you might see developping ..it has happenned few times.

It wasn't a sativa that brought the RKS-smell into Sam's Skunk, it was the Mazari i Sharif-afghani he used.

Here's some replies written by Sam regarding the make-up and breeding project of the original Skunk#1
..i understand that Cali-O is a Skunk#1 selection?

Anyways good luck with the project!
Here we go:

Q: "Sam, do you think the RKS was a Colombian/Afghan pheno or was it a mexican/afghan pheno? Or was it somewhere in the middle? It seems that a simple Afghan/Colombian cross could bring about some skunky individuals in my opinion."

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1865412&postcount=504


Q: "sam...was the afghan or columbian you used really skunky as hell to begin with?"

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1865299&postcount=502


Q: "From which region of Afghanistan did the 'Afghan' in 'Skunk #1' come from?"

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1528952&postcount=163

Q:"By selfed do you mean you made feminised Mazar x Colombian seeds then crossed one of these females to an Acapulco male?"


https://www.icmag.com/ic/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1530714

..and then later Sam bred it into the sweeter, fruity version of Skunk#1

Peace

Thank you for posting . i was actuly going to ask if you would post it here.

 

[Dankwolf]

These two varieties are completely unrelated...
Stardawg may have potential but Sensi Star... I think not.

Using genetics that have had the skunk breed out should prove fruitless.

Terps is terps is terps.... THCV.
The same clone taken from one grow to another is going to show a bit of variation but the terps will be the same. They could be muted or enhanced but a skunk is a skunk is a skunk. Nutrients are taken up exactly the same wether in hydro or grown organically. This argument is mute unless you've got proof via several side by side grows done profesionally using scientific methods of observation. I'm not a hydro guy but I've had hydro that beats the shit out of a lot of organicly grown product. I do grow organically but I also the opinions/choices of others. Especially when they're making choices for themselves based upon research they've done versus being a sock puppet taking orders.

Not true i have been pulling skunk smells out of strains for years . even strains many thoght did not have any rks smell . my choices were made throught years of growing. And personal observations made .not off advise or some story . your opinion could be called just as unfactule as you are claiming others are. Have you done side by side with the unmentioned amendments that i will be talking about ? If not you have no way to discredit what can bring out what skunk smell.

 

[Dankwolf]

Nothing will come of this and thread will fizzle out. Youve been here long enough MJ

The fuck it will . i am guessing you did not even read through the first post. Your negativity is of no use here in this thread . your are intitled to your own opinion . there is no reason for you to bring it here . meybe you can start your own thread about how rks is impossable and make your usless remarks there .

 

[slownickel]

Interesting quest you are on. I would chime in that most folks for what ever reason, will not ever see even half the genetic potential if the soil is not balanced correctly.

The best varieties in the world are often discarded due to their unknown nutritional demands. Seen it way too many times in melons, snow peas, onions, even avocado.

I am running a small experiment with two clones from one OGK "supposedly". One is in Ca calculated at 85% plus gypsum spiked in with OM. A second clone, Ca only brought up to 68% Ca (using [email protected] not M3) which is where a number of "scientists" and I use the term loosely, choose to have their Ca due to lack of understanding.

The difference so far in genetic expression is quite clear. In the plant with the higher Ca, leaves 8 and 9 came out quickly. In the clone without the high Ca, those two leaves so far have not showed up.

If we are talking leaves, can you imagine the other genetics that will not be expressed?

In the produce industry we call the concept nutrient density. Often the term is not used correctly and folks try to pound with K to get nutrient density. Doesn't work that way. To reach the genetic potential the plant needs Ca. As do humans!

In Albrechts' work from the Univ of Missouri, he found that where there is more Ca on the west coast vs the east coast, that the US military soldiers were taller and had less cavities. The genetic potential was in the population, just the food supply didn't have enough Ca. Are the guys from the east coast genetically missing the height and tooth health gene? No. Just couldn't get what was necessary to express the genetics.

If Dank sees these traits and others do not, this may say more about growing techniques and soils than genetics....

Keep going Dankster. Many will never understand much less appreciate what you are trying to do. Don't let them get you down.... stay the course. Ignore ignorance. Don't waste your time nor effort.

Peace.

 

[Dankwolf]

Interesting quest you are on. I would chime in that most folks for what ever reason, will not ever see even half the genetic potential if the soil is not balanced correctly.

The best varieties in the world are often discarded due to their unknown nutritional demands. Seen it way too many times in melons, snow peas, onions, even avocado.

I am running a small experiment with two clones from one OGK "supposedly". One is in Ca calculated at 85% plus gypsum spiked in with OM. A second clone, Ca only brought up to 68% Ca (using [email protected] not M3) which is where a number of "scientists" and I use the term loosely, choose to have their Ca due to lack of understanding.

The difference so far in genetic expression is quite clear. In the plant with the higher Ca, leaves 8 and 9 came out quickly. In the clone without the high Ca, those two leaves so far have not showed up.

If we are talking leaves, can you imagine the other genetics that will not be expressed?

In the produce industry we call the concept nutrient density. Often the term is not used correctly and folks try to pound with K to get nutrient density. Doesn't work that way. To reach the genetic potential the plant needs Ca. As do humans!

In Albrechts' work from the Univ of Missouri, he found that where there is more Ca on the west coast vs the east coast, that the US military soldiers were taller and had less cavities. The genetic potential was in the population, just the food supply didn't have enough Ca. Are the guys from the east coast genetically missing the height and tooth health gene? No. Just couldn't get what was necessary to express the genetics.

If Dank sees these traits and others do not, this may say more about growing techniques and soils than genetics....

Keep going Dankster. Many will never understand much less appreciate what you are trying to do. Don't let them get you down.... stay the course. Ignore ignorance. Don't waste your time nor effort.

Peace.

Thank you for the kind words and the info . greatly appreciated and helpfull.

 

[Dankwolf]

This my take years i am sure of that .i am committed to seeing this through

This my take years i am sure of that .i am committed to seeing this through

Wether poeple understand what i am doing or not will not detour me or my project nor my direction. This project has been in planing for years( waiting for the right genetics to come along/ be found) This not some thing that poped in to my head one day after reading some post or artical.

 

[Dankwolf]

Whats intesting Mel Frank gave skunkman ghani#1 and durban....

Sam said the skunk was bred out before relase , i get 2 things from this .... no rks in sk1 and why was it even called skunk if skunk was bred out ...
no rks can be found in any post amsterdam sk1 thats been proven , cheese aint skunk ..
plus dutch have no idea what skunks smell like ... there are no skunks in holland lol

Earley acrid ghanis are most likely what RKS is or was ...
DJ short mentions same thing when he talked about old skunks

RKS was more nose than flavor ... todays strains are way louder skunky flavor wise than the old stuff ....

A lot of djs gear has the rks hidden within but would take some work to bring it out . it would be best to out cross a bluberry indy with abother genetic witha simaler representation . the cotton candy i am using displays dj genetics and is part of the reason i am using it .

 

[Dankwolf]

Before i/we get to far from slownickels post i would like to bring up one of the points atleast from my point of view . many throw out genetics that suck in there opinion i have aswell but a better way to look at it is a challenge.just cause you or i cant get a strain rocking and rolling does not mean the strain necessarily "sucks"

For instance my main soil recipe is at moment tailored to my cotton candy and when i put a cut of "the white" in this mix it turned almost black/got covered in pm
/ dam near died lol. Similar thing happen when i put a afgooey cut in it . the leafs turn dark almost black stems got woody/round and sun leafs would not fully get mature they stayed about 3 inches around leaning towerds a sativa . instead of the big fat indy leafs from a earlyer run that were like 6 inches and mostly indica . so my point is plants are affected genetically by the way they are grown .ie: the amendments/there relation to each other and how they are sourced/aplied. so further more the smells and profile of smells can be greatly affected even a differnce in spectrum effects the basic biology/genetics of the plant.

So it should be easy to understand how smell/structure is easyly affected by environmental factors . if you still dont see this just think does your outdoor look like your indoor lol . bet not even if you light dep .

Still more to come i just got side tracked by uneducated theory s .

 

[corky1968]

Nothing will come of this and thread will fizzle out. Youve been here long enough MJ

Why is it when somebody tries something the naysayers show up?

Isn't it better to try at least?

 

[slownickel]

Before i/we get to far from slownickels post i would like to bring up one of the points atleast from my point of view . many throw out genetics that suck in there opinion i have aswell but a better way to look at it is a challenge.just cause you or i cant get a strain rocking and rolling does not mean the strain necessarily "sucks"

For instance my main soil recipe is at moment is tailored to my cotton candy and when i put a cut of "the white" in this mix it turned almost black/got covered in pm
/ dam near died lol. Similar thing happen when i put a afgooey cut in it . the leafs turn dark almost black stems got woody/round and sun leafs would not fully get mature they stayed about 3 inches around leaning towerds a sativa . instead of the big fat indy leafs from a earlyer run that were like 6 inches and mostly indica . so my point is plants are affected genetically by the way they are grown .ie: the amendments/there relation to each other and how they are sourced/aplied. so further more the smells and profile of smells can be greatly affected even a differnce in spectrum effects the basic biology/genetics of the plant.

So it should be easy to understand how smell/structure is easyly affected by environmental factors . if you still dont see this just think does your outdoor look like your indoor lol . bet not even if you light dep .

Still more to come i just got side tracked by uneducated theory s .

Dank,

You just gave us a great example. You are forced to work with cuts that will tolerate what you are doing to it. Don't take this wrong.

If there had been enough Ca and the conductivity low enough, you may have had an amazing blood line. But instead of you fixing the medium, the variety didn't make the cut. But the cut is what?

Sorry, but the cut is our ignorance. That is all.

Took me many many years to figure this out and in very big spaces.... thousands of acres at a time. Not in cannabis, but it doesn't matter. Farming an annual is farming an annual. Same with perennials....

And where I will agree with you is that each cut has what it likes, often this means more Ca, or more Mn, or B.... There are varieties of mandarins that no one likes yet everyone plants because it is the first to flower and first to produce. Hits amazing prices. Yet eats horrible. It is called Satsuma Okitsu.

Eat one of my Okitsu's... haha. Eats like candy. Why? It won't take high K, likes high N and high Ca.... People call me a liar when I give them one and then tell them what variety it is...

Lots of the best varieties world wide, melons, onions, snow peas, tomatoes, peppers, etc... DEMAND high Ca. Otherwise, they are marginal producers and the quality is not good.

The seed houses have bred their seed to grow in the conditions which their clients farm. So a breeder that gets amazing quality but needs high Ca, won't stay in the market long if he doesn't explain this to the grower...

See it all the time.

Here is an article. Note the THC levels per sample. I ran the base distributions on the soil, that is in the second file. Note the highest THC was in the soil that had the highest Ca base distribution %'s Also note the foliar analysis.

If these were all the same seed, note the variation in THC and actives versus the soil base distributions, looking very very hard at Ca%....

Good reading!

For those of you that find this a tough conversation come on over to the slow nickel lounge
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=331317

where you will get a bit more explanation of what we agronomists call the base saturation which is the sum of Ca, K, Mg, Na and H and looking at the relationship between them all. Calcium (Ca) needs to be around 80-85% just to put things in perspective. There is even a video!!

Sorry for grabbing your thread Dank...

 

[GoatCheese]

A lot of djs gear has the rks hidden within but would take some work to bring it out . it would be best to out cross a bluberry indy with abother genetic witha simaler representation . the cotton candy i am using displays dj genetics and is part of the reason i am using it .

Yea, I had a Dutch Passion's Blueberry for a while and it was skunky in similar way as UK Cheese is, just not quite as loud, but very similar.

 

[Thcvhunter]

Awesome duscussion, Dank and Slownickel

Yea, we are definitely on the same page.
-base Ca saturation
-Ca/Mg ratio
- that unsaid element which should be calculated in base saturations but is not.
- correct food / CEC level

I too have been noticing the 9-11 leaves when the soil minerals are in the goldilocks zone. And I've noticed only 5-7 leaves in my test batches when I go too low or too high with specific inputs.

 

[corky1968]

Nutrients only amplify things.

Without the proper genetics you can't go all the way.

I see 9 and 11 huge blade leaves right now.

 

[Dankwolf]

Dank,

You just gave us a great example. You are forced to work with cuts that will tolerate what you are doing to it. Don't take this wrong.

If there had been enough Ca and the conductivity low enough, you may have had an amazing blood line. But instead of you fixing the medium, the variety didn't make the cut. But the cut is what?

Sorry, but the cut is our ignorance. That is all.

Took me many many years to figure this out and in very big spaces.... thousands of acres at a time. Not in cannabis, but it doesn't matter. Farming an annual is farming an annual. Same with perennials....

And where I will agree with you is that each cut has what it likes, often this means more Ca, or more Mn, or B.... There are varieties of mandarins that no one likes yet everyone plants because it is the first to flower and first to produce. Hits amazing prices. Yet eats horrible. It is called Satsuma Okitsu.

Eat one of my Okitsu's... haha. Eats like candy. Why? It won't take high K, likes high N and high Ca.... People call me a liar when I give them one and then tell them what variety it is...

Lots of the best varieties world wide, melons, onions, snow peas, tomatoes, peppers, etc... DEMAND high Ca. Otherwise, they are marginal producers and the quality is not good.

The seed houses have bred their seed to grow in the conditions which their clients farm. So a breeder that gets amazing quality but needs high Ca, won't stay in the market long if he doesn't explain this to the grower...

See it all the time.

Here is an article. Note the THC levels per sample. I ran the base distributions on the soil, that is in the second file. Note the highest THC was in the soil that had the highest Ca base distribution %'s Also note the foliar analysis.

If these were all the same seed, note the variation in THC and actives versus the soil base distributions, looking very very hard at Ca%....

Good reading!

For those of you that find this a tough conversation come on over to the slow nickel lounge
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=331317

where you will get a bit more explanation of what we agronomists call the base saturation which is the sum of Ca, K, Mg, Na and H and looking at the relationship between them all. Calcium (Ca) needs to be around 80-85% just to put things in perspective. There is even a video!!

Sorry for grabbing your thread Dank...

No reason to be sorry at all and no i did not take it offensively. I have been hucking many cuts (lol ) over the years that could have been good it was my fault on some of them that i was not giving them what they needed to thrive .