DabLab Reloaded-- back to vertville

[DabOnDabs]

Okay, so now I'm starting to get a little nervous...Im not sure why, but I am a second guesser.

In school, tests that I study balls for I usually do mediocre (C avg), and tests that I dont study shit for I usually do pretty well (B+ avg)...Because I am always second guessing myself when I think I know something

There is pretty uniform yellowing throughout in the flower room. Clear N def, which had me reading more about ratio's, N, P, K, all that shit...

Stumbled across this thread, which I've seen before...And is the reason I've always thought one ratio straight through was a pretty good idea...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191007&highlight=nutrient+profiles

These are for you Papaduc!

Study Commisioned by Advanced Nutrients
http://www.growersunderground.com/PhosphorusMyth.pdf


However, Im not gonna lie. Shit is fattening up nicely. Buds are shaping up nicely, small leaves on the buds are still perky, and coated in sugar...The leaf to calyx ratio is declining, and here in a couple weeks, there should me mostly fat buds.

I'm not gonna change what I'm doing. Papa took his time and his insight to share his experiences, and I'm going with it. The finished product/yields will tell. The plants certainly arent dieing. Lol.

I'm running 4ml Micro, 9ml Bloom. H3ad and all them are cutting out the Micro completely mid flower, so they've GOTTA be running into N deficiencies...?

Have about....10 more days until flush. Doubt any of the crazy colors will come out since I've been running low on N for a week already. We'll see though.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Also checked on the seedlings' roots today. Rootbound as a motha fucka. So I tranplanted them into 1 gallon grow bags so that I have enough space to veg out my next round of clones as well.

In the veg room it looks like this;

1 3x6' Flood table with 9 Nightmare OG's and 7 Girl Scout Cookies.
This table has 2-1000w Enhanced spectrum MH bulbs

1 3x6' Flood table with 35 Seedlings in 1 gallon bags. 50%/50% coco/perlite
This table has 1 8 bulb T5 and 1-1000W Enhanced spectrum MH bulb over it

Right now the seedlings are under the T5. The light is lifted up a bit, but I've been having trouble keeping the temps down under their with the other two lights on, while at the same time keeping the humidity up.

I'm gonna have to set up an air conditioner, but I have my old 15k btu wall banger. I dont wanna put it outside through a window because of the elements, but I think i will just set it up with the exhaust blowing under the stairs/into my shop. It'll help keep the basement warm during lights off for the big room.

Also, I need to drill another 3/4'' hole through ~15'' of brick and cinder block to get a 30 amp line run to my main box for the 4 light controller for my veg room. It'll be easy to get another 20 amp line in for the A/C, and that should be money. 3k watts + 4'T5 + A couple other T12's and such for mothers. Cooled by the A/C, Fogger in that bitch...May go get a CO2 bottle and seal up the Veg room. Fuck it. I have a sentinel Temp humidity Co2 controller that I bought to control the room.

Need to figure out a relay system for the A/c and the sentinel. I know the window bangers dont like it, but i'll put a big deadband on there so it only has to turn on and off every half hour or so. I've seen threads how to do it before, I just dont know the right contactor to get for the 20 amp a/c.

MY camera battery is dead, i'll post pics in a bit

 

[DHF]

Well Bro....Here comes the school of thought from someone that learned looooong ago to look at the masses , but learn from the few.....

The folks that taught me and I followed from the get NEVER flushed their plants toward the end of cycle , but rather "dwindled" down their ppms so as to allow the plants to "cannibalize" themselves and pull from their reserves so natural plant "senescence" would occur while allowing the plants to swell as much as absolutely possible before the chop , so....

That goes against EVERYTHING that the masses claim is THE way to leach excess juice from the rootzones AND remaining plant tissue for a smooth toke and white ash with no residual nutrient buildup in said plant matter after a decent dry and proper cure right ?......and....

Getting rid of N and then micro too per Head`s findings and others as well HAS ta be the way , the truth , and the light for top shelf shit cuz By Gawd they said it and it`s law......Horsefuck.....

Never flushed a plant in my life after Krusty buckets in a fast hydro setup for almost a decade , and even then it was for 24-48 hrs BEFORE chop cuz leaching rootzones AND plant tissue happens fast and not necessary , unless yas want premature yellowing off as well as lack of late flower swellage to occur.....now.....

Once you`ve wrapped your head around low EC feeds across the board as I know you have Dabs , there HAS ta be a certain amount of N/micro/macro`s/Cal/Mag to keep the ball rollin toward Harvey WITHOUT shuttin em down too soon and goin into "survival mode" in order to proliferate the species and bear seed/pump resin/live as long as possible by pulling from their reserves in the fanleaves and rootzone...in the wild that is as Ma Nature intended before artificial cultivation EVER occurred..but......

With low EC across the board , there`s NOTHIN left IF yas take all forms of N away from the plants too soon , so please.....Take it from me and Heath plus many many others over the yrs that called bullshit on flushin cuz we were croppin sob`s that wanted every last gram possible outta each and every plant we ran , cuz ....

We KNEW from doin this shit for a livin repeatedly run in and run out , that if yas dwindle ppm`s slowly down toward the end to the levels comparable with most municipal tapwater supplies , that a PROPER dry and cure takes care of the rest if any are even still inherent by way of evaporation and dehumidification FTW.....bet on it....now....

You`re waaaay ahead of the ballgame with papaduc droppin firsthand knowledge as well , but I stand up to anyone that says flushing and leaching is something that`s needed for proper Harvey and top shelf dope.....anyways......

Nuff outta my old ass tonite cuz I`m 3 bongs in on my Bubba for bedtime after a big ass meal of grilled redfish , speckled trout , shrimp and crab with all manners of fixins , so.....

Ponder away and I`ll be back in da morning fer wake and bake , with me waitin to take the brunt of ALL the flushers that swear by their methods , but never had the balls ta try it our way cuz God forbid they should grow dope and not flush/STARVE their plants in late bloomage cuz it`s what EVERYONE does....just ask em....and to that I scream 1 mo time...

Horsefuck...... From a grower/cropper of waaaay too many yrs that knows better...and why ?...cuz...If yas GOTTA flush yer plants for decent taste and smell , you`re feedin them bitches TOO much juice to begin with...bet on it......

Peace....Freds..........

 

[DabOnDabs]

Getting rid of N and then micro too per Head`s findings and others as well HAS ta be the way , the truth , and the light for top shelf shit cuz By Gawd they said it and it`s law......Horsefuck.....

Ponder away and I`ll be back in da morning fer wake and bake , with me waitin to take the brunt of ALL the flushers that swear by their methods , but never had the balls ta try it our way cuz God forbid they should grow dope and not flush/STARVE their plants in late bloomage cuz it`s what EVERYONE does....just ask em....and to that I scream 1 mo time...

Horsefuck...... From a grower/cropper of waaaay too many yrs that knows better...and why ?...cuz...If yas GOTTA flush yer plants for decent taste and smell , you`re feedin them bitches TOO much juice to begin with...bet on it......

Peace....Freds..........

Now now freds, I wasn't saying that because H3ad does it that way, that its the right way. Im in the school of thought, that I know you agree with; There are many ways to skin a cat

I switched to the GH because I was having a hard time getting the Jacks to the nutrient profiles I wanted.

Papaduc suggested 1-1-2 for late flower, SO i was like eyyyy, lets try it. My buds are looking a little leafy.

SO i dropped the N a bit, and I'm seeing pretty decent results. I'm also listening to you, when you said "dont drop the micro completely."

However, You're right..The yellowing doesnt seem normal. I'm adding a bit more P and K to compensate for the lower N. That's what I thoguht we wanted. I'm still running low ppms across the board...So it should be getting what's needed for late flower no??

Dude...I'm still a rookie. I'll admit it, not trying to be anything but. Im going against the "One ratio for veg and bloom" school to see if I have better results.

My question to you is, if we want to keep the N up, then we would have to give a bunch of additional P and K to make up for it. This pushes our PPM's up?...Or, we leave the P and K, and we're right back at 3-1-4. Gahhhhhh.

So by keeping N down, and P and K up, we hit the 1-1-2...With a little bit of yellowing....But Buds still growing. This is the leaves cannabalizing themselves is it not?

Im sorry, i dont know. Thinking out loud.

 

[DabOnDabs]

P.s. you act like a bunch of people post in this thread. "A bunch of flushers blah blah blah." It'll probably be Papaduc hopelessly explaining the same things to my dumb ass, with my never stop pondering stoned as fuck ass twisting shit my own way.

 

[DHF]

Bro....I meant no offense , and only wanted yas ta realize that the late late flower stage is where the plants put on their most weight before chop , and I NEVER meant yas gotta keep the N "in" , but rather the micro`s and lil cal/mag when I ran coco was what kept shit hoonin for me , but it still took mixin the shit appropriately and still keepin ppms consistent across the board no matter what it took.....anyways...

Bro....If you`re a rookie , you`re DAMN good at it , and only gonna get better , so please know that I`m on yer side regardless , cuz you`ll constantly get SEVERAL schools of thought on HOW t a do shit , and yas gotta roll with whatchas know and learn first hand from doin it....

Goin ta bed.....wasn`t tryin ta fuck witchas my buddy OR tell yas what ta do , but rather give yas a totally different perspective from MOST of what everyone else does for THE wayta do shit..

Blaze yer own trail Bro , and learn from it.....

Peace....Freds........

 

[flat9]

Hey Dabs not sure if I missed it but what were your thoughts of 3-2-1 w/ Jacks-Calcinit-Epsom in coco? It seems you've been thinking about this a bit more than I have. I have been doing 3-2 (no epsom) and one girl is developing what seems to be a magnesium deficiency, but the other 7 look healthy....

 

[papaduc]

Yo dabs, I'll be on later to talk about this.

In the meantime Freds, try and keep him from implicating me in any other crimes against plants... k?

 

[papaduc]

Stumbled across this thread, which I've seen before...And is the reason I've always thought one ratio straight through was a pretty good idea...

Brother Dabs....

Remember, my only advice to you when we first talked about this was to get a pack of maxibloom or any dedicated bloom feed and forget about the rest. And the only other time I've advised you to buy a bottle of anything since was a few pages ago... when I said "buy a bottle of basic tomato food"...

Both these things will get you through the cycle fine. My original advice was - use the jacks as it's meant to be used, and if you want to lower the nitrogen at a certain point, drop the jacks and make your feeds with the bloom feed.

There's nothing wrong with a simple basic feed. But that doesn't mean you need to find one that fits both veg and flower perfectly.

Growing any plant should be about reading them, and adjusting what they get based on what you see, but at the same time keeping things very simple. Not about following formulas.

I've never used the head recipe.. I don't even know what it is because it's pointless to me. But, If your plants don't look good on it, don't use it.

Like I said when we first talked about it, if I had to chop and cut up some nutrient with equal amounts of another... I'd just buy a different bottle/pack of a different ratio which had everything balanced.

It's the same advice I'd give now.

Besides, a bit of paling in flower isn't the end of the world by any stretch, and in a lot of cases it goes hand in hand with nicely formed buds... but there's a clear line between a bit of paling and real deficiency.

Post a whole plant picture with the lights off of the worst affected one. Let's have a look at it.

:Edited to remove what's already been said before. And just to add, when I said if your plants don't look good, what I mean is if you're not happy with them. To me it looks good in there.

 

[papaduc]

Dabs, where you at...

Just wanted to say, reading back over this... a lot of thinking time is being spent on nutes and ratios etc. They're only one part of the grow and once you're in a decent range, everything else is about every other aspect of the grow. I'm trying to answer your questions but apart from being aware to be careful of putting too much nitrogen into your buds, there's nothing else to say really so it's probably best to swerve that aspect altogether right now.

In a nutshell, simply:

Find a good base nute you like using.

Use it.

If you want to add some P/K in flower, replace 0.2ec of base with it.

Simple.

Like DHF said, you'll learn what suits you best and you can only reflect once the results are in anyway. You can't call judgement on a harvest before it's weighed. Then you can assess which things you could have done differently.

Chances are once you reflect, the nutes you used or didn't use won't even be highest on the list of things you could do differently to increase efficiency next run.

When you're chopping up each plant and you're seeing the ratio of top grade bud to mid grade to leafy shit... then you realise what you could and should have chopped... how you could have trained differently... what you could have sacrificed.. how you can be more ruthless next time... these things make the next grow better.

The start you give them under fluoros, the training you do at an early age, what kind of training, when you decide to flip them, how you stack them round the bulbs etc etc... that'll determine how efficient you can be gram per watt in your environment.

 

[Shcrews]

plants are looking good to me at least. any chance of getting some good close-ups?

 

[frankenstein2]

Just for shits and giggles I will add this: I am currently on my 3rd run in a ppk with coco as the medium. I use floranova bloom, and that's it. Haven't had any deficiencies and it works really good for me and it's easy. Last run I started a 4-5 inch clone in my ppk on day 1 of flower and I got 2 grams shy of an ounce from it, and it was sitting off to the side not getting direct light. I'm doing my ppk grows as an experiment to see which food works the easiest. Previous runs have been done using a 2 part food, and the results weren't nearly as good. I also dwindled down the ppms towards the end and my smoke burns smooth with gray/white ash. Just my 2 cents.....

 

[DabOnDabs]

Brother Dabs....

My original advice was - use the jacks as it's meant to be used, and if you want to lower the nitrogen at a certain point, drop the jacks and make your feeds with the bloom feed.

I think I was just over complicated everything you told me, and reading too far into it.

Sorry for lack of updates, my personal life just hit a brick wall going 180. I'll be back in a couple weeks to finish this up. regards

 

[Mister_D]

Well Bro....Here comes the school of thought from someone that learned looooong ago to look at the masses , but learn from the few.....

The folks that taught me and I followed from the get NEVER flushed their plants toward the end of cycle , but rather "dwindled" down their ppms so as to allow the plants to "cannibalize" themselves and pull from their reserves so natural plant "senescence" would occur while allowing the plants to swell as much as absolutely possible before the chop , so....

That goes against EVERYTHING that the masses claim is THE way to leach excess juice from the rootzones AND remaining plant tissue for a smooth toke and white ash with no residual nutrient buildup in said plant matter after a decent dry and proper cure right ?......and....

Getting rid of N and then micro too per Head`s findings and others as well HAS ta be the way , the truth , and the light for top shelf shit cuz By Gawd they said it and it`s law......Horsefuck.....

Never flushed a plant in my life after Krusty buckets in a fast hydro setup for almost a decade , and even then it was for 24-48 hrs BEFORE chop cuz leaching rootzones AND plant tissue happens fast and not necessary , unless yas want premature yellowing off as well as lack of late flower swellage to occur.....now.....

Once you`ve wrapped your head around low EC feeds across the board as I know you have Dabs , there HAS ta be a certain amount of N/micro/macro`s/Cal/Mag to keep the ball rollin toward Harvey WITHOUT shuttin em down too soon and goin into "survival mode" in order to proliferate the species and bear seed/pump resin/live as long as possible by pulling from their reserves in the fanleaves and rootzone...in the wild that is as Ma Nature intended before artificial cultivation EVER occurred..but......

With low EC across the board , there`s NOTHIN left IF yas take all forms of N away from the plants too soon , so please.....Take it from me and Heath plus many many others over the yrs that called bullshit on flushin cuz we were croppin sob`s that wanted every last gram possible outta each and every plant we ran , cuz ....

We KNEW from doin this shit for a livin repeatedly run in and run out , that if yas dwindle ppm`s slowly down toward the end to the levels comparable with most municipal tapwater supplies , that a PROPER dry and cure takes care of the rest if any are even still inherent by way of evaporation and dehumidification FTW.....bet on it....now....

You`re waaaay ahead of the ballgame with papaduc droppin firsthand knowledge as well , but I stand up to anyone that says flushing and leaching is something that`s needed for proper Harvey and top shelf dope.....anyways......

Nuff outta my old ass tonite cuz I`m 3 bongs in on my Bubba for bedtime after a big ass meal of grilled redfish , speckled trout , shrimp and crab with all manners of fixins , so.....

Ponder away and I`ll be back in da morning fer wake and bake , with me waitin to take the brunt of ALL the flushers that swear by their methods , but never had the balls ta try it our way cuz God forbid they should grow dope and not flush/STARVE their plants in late bloomage cuz it`s what EVERYONE does....just ask em....and to that I scream 1 mo time...

Horsefuck...... From a grower/cropper of waaaay too many yrs that knows better...and why ?...cuz...If yas GOTTA flush yer plants for decent taste and smell , you`re feedin them bitches TOO much juice to begin with...bet on it......

Peace....Freds..........

One important bit of understanding you've missed freds, is the difference between using a media with low CEC (i.e lava rock, hydrotron, etc), and a high CEC media (i.e coco, peat, etc). You accomplished the same thing by dwindling the ppm's in your krusty buckets as I do "flushing" my coco. See if you drain a krusty bucket and refill with plain water you instantly have almost no nutes available to the roots (lava rock doesn't hold onto much nutrient). This results in yellowing/deficiency within a day or two. Versus dwindling the ppm's which bring out proper fall colors. In a media like coco that is capable of holding a store of nutes, you'd need to feed plain water to dwindle ppm's in the same way you do by controlled dwindling in the res of a krusty bucket. Difference being the nutes are mostly held in the media with coco, vs. suspended in solution with lava rock/hydrotron based systems. Ultimately the end result is the same (lower nute concentration in the root zone at harvest), but you have to use two different methods to achieve the same result because of the differing properties of the above mentioned medias.

 

[Arminius]

RE: flushing
This will be my first run with just hydroton, so I will have first hand soon, but I never "flushed" my coco, only tapered EC for the last 3-5 days, sometimes less. I have had no complaints. Most of my meds go to a SF dispo that prides itself on clean green, blah blah blah. I have had more than one compliment in the reviews on how clean it burns "sign of a good flush", and rather than turn their world upside down, I just chuckle inside...

 

[Shcrews]

Same here Arminius, I have pulled amazing crops with no pre-harvest "flush" at all. Theres no need to overthink feeding and flushing. Just dont overfeed, and make sure to taper off the nutrients gradually in the last couple weeks. Thats my strategy at least.

 

[DHF]

Same here Arminius, I have pulled amazing crops with no pre-harvest "flush" at all. Theres no need to overthink feeding and flushing. Just dont overfeed, and make sure to taper off the nutrients gradually in the last couple weeks. Thats my strategy at least.

Just goes ta show what`s possible after listenin to the "right" people instead of the "must" flush for top shelf product folks.....but.....

I fully understand what Dbro`s screamin IF the medium and plant have been overfed or not leached during the life of the grow with 1/2 strength flushes and brought back under the proper parameters......and also...

IF a proper slurry test has been done in the "core" of rootzones during late bloomage that in fact DOES reveal stored EC and increased ppm`s with ph lowering instead of rising as the plants eat in a dialed setup...... but.....

Even @750ppms/1.5 ec in my 1/3 fibers/1/3 croutons/chunks/1/3 chunky /coarse perlite #5 smartpots , all I ever did was top off my rez`s with 1/2 tap/1/2r/o the last week-10 days and MAYBE 2 weeks strain dependent , to bring ppms down to municipal tapwater levels in the high 100`s/low 200 ppms and then let proper SLOW dry and cure take care of the rest FTW.....anyways.....

Stand strong Dabster , whatever`s goin on in the real world and personal life will come to pass as all things do , so know that we`re thinkin boutchas and pullin hard for yas as well.....

Peace....Freds..........

 

[Mister_D]

RE: flushing
This will be my first run with just hydroton, so I will have first hand soon, but I never "flushed" my coco, only tapered EC for the last 3-5 days, sometimes less. I have had no complaints. Most of my meds go to a SF dispo that prides itself on clean green, blah blah blah. I have had more than one compliment in the reviews on how clean it burns "sign of a good flush", and rather than turn their world upside down, I just chuckle inside...

Same here Arminius, I have pulled amazing crops with no pre-harvest "flush" at all. Theres no need to overthink feeding and flushing. Just dont overfeed, and make sure to taper off the nutrients gradually in the last couple weeks. Thats my strategy at least.

Just goes ta show what`s possible after listenin to the "right" people instead of the "must" flush for top shelf product folks.....but.....

I fully understand what Dbro`s screamin IF the medium and plant have been overfed or not leached during the life of the grow with 1/2 strength flushes and brought back under the proper parameters......and also...

IF a proper slurry test has been done in the "core" of rootzones during late bloomage that in fact DOES reveal stored EC and increased ppm`s with ph lowering instead of rising as the plants eat in a dialed setup...... but.....

Even @750ppms/1.5 ec in my 1/3 fibers/1/3 croutons/chunks/1/3 chunky /coarse perlite #5 smartpots , all I ever did was top off my rez`s with 1/2 tap/1/2r/o the last week-10 days and MAYBE 2 weeks strain dependent , to bring ppms down to municipal tapwater levels in the high 100`s/low 200 ppms and then let proper SLOW dry and cure take care of the rest FTW.....anyways.....

Stand strong Dabster , whatever`s goin on in the real world and personal life will come to pass as all things do , so know that we`re thinkin boutchas and pullin hard for yas as well.....

Peace....Freds..........

So you all agree reducing nute concentration towards the end of harvest is the proper way to do things, thanks for making my point . I actually hate the term "flushing" because it's interpreted by almost everyone differently. To me it just refers to dwindling the EC available at the root zone during the last 1-3 weeks prior to harvest. How this is accomplished, and to what degree, is dependent on media used and grower preference. My palate is very sensitive to small amounts of unused nutes left in the finished product (I like a slurry/reservoir test to come back @ 0.4EC or less at harvest), other people don't seem to notice unless plants have been overfed.

 

[DabOnDabs]

Bro....I meant no offense , and only wanted yas ta realize that the late late flower stage is where the plants put on their most weight before chop , and I NEVER meant yas gotta keep the N "in" , but rather the micro`s and lil cal/mag when I ran coco was what kept shit hoonin for me , but it still took mixin the shit appropriately and still keepin ppms consistent across the board no matter what it took.....anyways...

Bro....If you`re a rookie , you`re DAMN good at it , and only gonna get better , so please know that I`m on yer side regardless , cuz you`ll constantly get SEVERAL schools of thought on HOW t a do shit , and yas gotta roll with whatchas know and learn first hand from doin it....

Goin ta bed.....wasn`t tryin ta fuck witchas my buddy OR tell yas what ta do , but rather give yas a totally different perspective from MOST of what everyone else does for THE wayta do shit..

Blaze yer own trail Bro , and learn from it.....

Peace....Freds........

Yo man I took no offense what so ever to what you said. Never do. I know you preach in the name of healthy plants and thats all. I was being sarcastic for the sake of humor, and I meant it to come off as such. I didnt mean to sound like I was attacking you, so im sorry dog.

Broke up w/ the lady. 'twas for the best. I need a chick who'll either help me or stay out of my way. Cant be needy, and causing uneccessary drama and stress in my life when I have a job to do. Shit being helpful would go along way into making both of our lives easier and happier, but yea. Anyways, thats all i gotta say about it.

Heres a SUPER SUPDATE. Turned the lights off to see how yellow they're really getting. They're just paling a little bit. For the most part, they look healthy. They just arent DARK green with the lights on. The buds are really starting to swell up. I Honestly think they have another 4 weeks to go EASY. Sin City says 8-9. Last time I cut at 8, and the shit made me paranoid as fuck---too early.

I also gave some cuttings to a friend, and he cut @ 9 weeks. His shit made me paranoid as fuck too...

Who knows, maybe thats why they call it "nightmare og"

Forgot to mention, starting to get some purples coming in on some of the leaves. Looks sexy IMO. Im going to get in there tonight and start taking all of the remaining fans over the period of the next 10 days or so. We'll see how long I go with the nutes for...All of your comments have been duly noted (ARMINUS, MISTER D, DHF, ETC)

Theres a fuck load of pics...Some may be blurry, i dont have time to go threw them all tonight. Enjoy.

 

[DabOnDabs]