Cultivating Zamaldelica and Jarilla de Sinaloa by the Danube

[therevverend]

I'm growing some Baglung Nepali, but it is flowering so early, it started a few weeks ago, that I suspect it has hemp in it. It would be interesting to see what the wild hemp looks like. Is it flowering already in your area? Does it have red/purple colors?

It's possible that the Baglung could be or have eastern hemp in it. I've seen references to Indica Kafiristanica growing in Nepal, although it may be that it's lumped in because it's Autoflowering. Eastern feral or wild stuff can have some THC, more so then western ruderalis and less CBD. Flowers basically any time during the summer. I suspect that with some of the Auto or photosensitive Himalayan strains going around. Now I need to compare the two, the Baglung to Kafiristanica to Ruderalis.

The Danube hemp could be quite ancient considering it was used for ritual purposes thousands of years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it has grown wild since the last ice age although no way to tell if it's been 'adulterated' with farmed hemp or yoss's crops..

 

[paisajedehierba]

delighted at those narrow leaved ZamAce bushes and the hemp pics

delighted at those narrow leaved ZamAce bushes and the hemp pics

Hemp has already started flowering here. I'll try to take new photos next week, till then here are a few from 2 years ago:
View Image View Image View Image View Image View Image

The hemp we have here rarely has red colors in leaves or stems. It's green and apart from that it can vary in size and structure, most are lanky but some individuals are short and sturdy.

Yoss,
this is a very enjoyable thread.
I don´t want to do covert advertising...but this hemp actually seems to be closely related to the european hemp that was used by Stitch to breed "superautomatic strains". For me that´s interesting, because I am on the way to derive a Zamaldelica dominant auto strain based on stitch 0.1 Muay Thai. Sorry for the change of subject.
If I were living in your area I would try to make crosses with this long leged and mould resistant wild hemp without using any breaders autobasis.
Nevertheless I am looking forward to the progress of your Zam crosses. Good luck with it.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Thanks Yoss - If you can, please include close-ups.

Thanks Rev. - Interesting information.

Auto flowering is what popped into my head since flowering started before the summer solstice. Someone argued against it. Then again, flowering seems to be progressing very slowly. Like other traits, auto flowering might be a spectrum rather than a distinct expression.

I'm anxious to smoke some. I've been put off crossing it with my most valuable genetics, but I hope to cross it with Durban Poison. Hemp for earliness crossed to Nepalese then Durban might make it good enough to be worthy of further use. I'm trying to determine if the Nepalese genetics have been compromised, or if this is just how Nepalese is.

T.B.

 

[yoss33]

Hello, guys!
I don't think the hemp we have growing feral here is pure old local varieties, because I've seen a century old ad in a local newspaper about a company selling hemp seeds from Bologna, so at least during the last century or two all kinds of commercial hemp were grown. I guess Italy was among the main sources due to the similarity in climate.
Hemp was grown here in big scale up to 1976 (or 78) and the hemp we have now is growing mostly around fields that were used for that purpose up to then.
It is a big problem, especially in some areas, if you want to grow marihuana - all your crop gets spoiled by complete pollination. Especially early flowering varieties like White Widow. Not only that but hemp has its NON-high dominant over the effect of good bud, and you get seeds that are crap to grow - even when the mother is very potent weed, about 3/4 of the generation is crap or mediocre at best and 1/4 is fine but still weaker than the mother. So I wouldn't attempt incorporating hemp into any breeding unless I know what I'm doing It's literally throwing you back a hundred generations in selection for good effect.

And by the way, before the advent of internet seeds, I and friends of mine have grown many plants from bagseed from good buds, pollinated by hemp. None of these plants had auto-flowering (or very early flowering) traits, they all started flowering in August, like all sativa-indica hybrids. So it seems hemp's auto/early flowering is recessive in a cross and will not be so easy to breed.

 

[therevverend]

Thai Bliss, I've been talking about some of this stuff with Solar Logos in the Purple Satellite thread. It's relevant because it's got Nepali in it. The plant flowers at 15 hours of day length, he's in Cali which makes it basically an Autoflower. I'm at over 15 hours from mid May until August 1 so it's regular season for me. Here's a link.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=359464&page=12

I don't think the hemp we have growing feral here is pure old local varieties, because I've seen a century old ad in a local newspaper about a company selling hemp seeds from Bologna, so at least during the last century or two all kinds of commercial hemp were grown. I guess Italy was among the main sources due to the similarity in climate.
Hemp was grown here in big scale up to 1976 (or 78) and the hemp we have now is growing mostly around fields that were used for that purpose up to then.
It is a big problem, especially in some areas, if you want to grow marihuana - all your crop gets spoiled by complete pollination. Especially early flowering varieties like White Widow. Not only that but hemp has its NON-high dominant over the effect of good bud, and you get seeds that are crap to grow - even when the mother is very potent weed, about 3/4 of the generation is crap or mediocre at best and 1/4 is fine but still weaker than the mother. So I wouldn't attempt incorporating hemp into any breeding unless I know what I'm doing It's literally throwing you back a hundred generations in selection for good effect.

That would take one hell of a breeding program, and with so many early flowering strains out there why bother? 30, 40 years ago it might have been.

The report from the 19th century is awesome, nice find. I'll bet they had the same problem then, the ruderalis feral/wild stuff contaminating their hemp crops! Which is why they're bringing in seeds from Italy. Maybe that feral stuff has genes from centuries' worth of foreign plants that were absorbed into the gene pool. I think the Turks grew hashplants in the region for a century or two.

You're wise to grow late season flowering stuff avoiding the ruderalis pollen. I'm amazed you do as well as you do harvesting in November, microclimates are everything. Glad I don't have the same problems, the pollen that blows around my neighborhood comes from me!

 

[YukonKronic]

Hello, guys!
I don't think the hemp we have growing feral here is pure old local varieties, because I've seen a century old ad in a local newspaper about a company selling hemp seeds from Bologna, so at least during the last century or two all kinds of commercial hemp were grown. I guess Italy was among the main sources due to the similarity in climate.
Hemp was grown here in big scale up to 1976 (or 78) and the hemp we have now is growing mostly around fields that were used for that purpose up to then.
It is a big problem, especially in some areas, if you want to grow marihuana - all your crop gets spoiled by complete pollination. Especially early flowering varieties like White Widow. Not only that but hemp has its NON-high dominant over the effect of good bud, and you get seeds that are crap to grow - even when the mother is very potent weed, about 3/4 of the generation is crap or mediocre at best and 1/4 is fine but still weaker than the mother. So I wouldn't attempt incorporating hemp into any breeding unless I know what I'm doing It's literally throwing you back a hundred generations in selection for good effect.

And by the way, before the advent of internet seeds, I and friends of mine have grown many plants from bagseed from good buds, pollinated by hemp. None of these plants had auto-flowering (or very early flowering) traits, they all started flowering in August, like all sativa-indica hybrids. So it seems hemp's auto/early flowering is recessive in a cross and will not be so easy to breed.

All auto flowering genes are recessive I believe. Dubi has stated that F1 crosses with Auto flowering plants produce no Autos but continuing line to F2 will yield (iirc) 25% Auto-flowering plants from which you can select parents to continue the line as an Auto-flower.
I was too lazy to find the quotes so if I have misspoken Dubi’s words I shall abase myself heartily. Those with deeper interest are encouraged to look at Auto malawi x northern lights thread for further info.

 

[yoss33]

Hi guys,
Today I sowed directly into the ground outdoors ten seeds of each of: Zam x ZamAce, Zam x Jarilla and Jarilla. Hopefully the winterization of a week into the fridge will be enough so that at least one seed of each kind sprouts. I already have 2x Zam x ZamAce sprouted in a cup with soil at home, they too got transplanted outdoors today.
When harvesting the seeds, I tried the just-dried Zam's and Jarilla's fully-seeded "buds" (seeds on stalks) and while the Zam was weak and dull compared to the sinsemilla, the Jarilla mother was very very nice. Super clear and clean high, motivating and positive. It has an instant "sobering" sharpening/cleaning effect as soon as you exhale (can cannabinoids act so fast or perhaps some terpenes?), and then its pleasant clean and slightly dreamy state slowly develops. Completely natural very easy anti-psychotic feel, the opposite of "overwhelming". But it's not weak either, I smoke all day everyday and one big hit from the pipe felt very pleasing and rewarding for a long time (like 3 hours). It's exactly for effects like this that I decided to reproduce and grow Jarilla again - it has the potential to offer the feelings, complexity and clarity of a proper sativa, despite the short flowering time and wide leaves.
I'll be able to try unseeded buds from the Jarilla mother this year (and hopefully compare to children of hers if they sprout), as its lower 4 branches that were left on the plant are now revegging and it formed a very nice small bush on a stalk. Here it is:

 

[ThaiBliss]

Thai Bliss, I've been talking about some of this stuff with Solar Logos in the Purple Satellite thread. It's relevant because it's got Nepali in it. The plant flowers at 15 hours of day length, he's in Cali which makes it basically an Autoflower. I'm at over 15 hours from mid May until August 1 so it's regular season for me. Here's a link.

Yes, but that is AFTER it is crossed to a later flowering strain, Oaxacan. If I cross it to Duban Poison, then it could work out well for me. The end goal is ripe by October 1. This is too early at this stage.
The good news is that resin is starting to form. If it gets me high with side effects less severe than headache, tiredness, or couch-lock, then I'm good for more experimentation.
Thanks for the information.

 

[ThaiBliss]

O.K., I'll call it Himalayan Red:

T.B.

 

[yoss33]

Hey, I tried to make new photos of some feral hemp, but my camera's batteries turned out dead so I took photos with the phone and the result is not very nice but you can see the leaves and lanky structure. Most of the plants are as lanky as cannabis can get The females are still not into full flowering, you can see mostly male flowers.

 

[yoss33]

A quick update from the garden:
There are sprouts coming out from the ground from all 3 types - Zam x ZamAce, Zam x Jarilla and pure Jarilla. It seems the sun baking the ground (up to 50*C, I guess) has played a role into triggering these fresh seeds to sprout, because no seed has sprouted at home at 27*C, only 2 seeds that I put long ago. And the seeds outdoors sprouted within a few days.

The 2 ZamAces, after the heavy trim, together with some Zam x ZamAce sprouts in their feet (the 2 bigger seedlings are the ones started at home earlier):

ZamAce #1:

ZamAce #2:

 

[yoss33]

The Jarilla mother together with the Jarilla and Zam x Jarilla seedlings in its feet:

Recently, I got curious about this Cola de Borrego strain that Jarilla actually is. And as far as Google translate serves me, it seems to be a very old line (from the first crosses with Indica) that is still popular in Mexico among the people who want to grow the classic lines. It must be good enough to exist and be relied on for half a century. It seems to be among the few true strains in Mexico (together with Verde Limon) and not simply a geographical name (like Sinaloa, Michoacan or Oaxaca) of an area where different strains are grown.

 

[yoss33]

And not related to the "breeding" project, here are a few photos of the OG Kush and Purple Mexican that I have growing at the place I grew the Zam mother last year. The Puple Mexican doesn't seem more "sativa" than the kush, which is a bit disappointing, as I hoped for something more close to the Oaxacan parent. Anyways, a more indica plant is also fine, as these 2 plants are needed for medical edibles.
The Kush:

The Purple Mexican:

 

[ThaiBliss]

Hi Yoss,

Thanks for the pictures of the hemp. I see similarities to my Baglung Nepali, but also distinct differences, I'm happy to report.

Very interesting information about the Mexican strains. Those Mexicans got it right, originally, with regard to adding a touch of indica with what I believe are S.E. Asian genetics. They didn't go too far with the indica way back then, until the more recent history like everyone else, sadly. I'd love to get a hold of some Verde Limon or Mexican Red Hair someday. I guess I should pop those Destroyer seeds I have and look around. What those could have been with the Mexican and Thai, but without the Colombian.

I think the really old school Mexican strains from 45 to 50 years ago that I experienced as a young kid were influenced by their shamanistic culture, particularly their use of hallucinogenic mushrooms. From your research, do you know where the pharmaceutical "indica" came from? I have to suspect Nepal since Nepalese and Mexican are both know to me as the best examples of particularly happy types of highs. I remember laughing till it hurt on that fine Mexican weed. It was the first weed I ever smoked.

Love your thread. Let me know if I'm taking it too far off course.

ThaiBliss

 

[yoss33]

You are welcome, my friend! A thread about a Mexican strain have to contain the memories of an old hippie, and a "breeding" thread is nice to be spiced up with some speculations about the origins of old strains, hehe.
I don't know what's from where... maybe with the advancement of DNA technologies almost everything will be tracked, but I think some things from the past we'll never learn, just like with the thousands of years of human civilisation before written history.
Maybe after all, the origins of a strain are not so important as the people who made the selection in the last ten or 20 generations... I personally believe indica is created by the people who like opium and relaxing effects in general. It has been selected for such effects, it didn't happen by itself in the Afghanistan environment, nor it is from a special sub-species of cannabis carried through the millennia. It's all cannabis - hemp, selected for different purposes.
The Nepalese perhaps selected for a more meditative effect.
My speculation is that the people in the heats of Africa selected the African strains which are speedy, but this is to balance the lazy feeling of the heats. At least that's what I like very much in Zamaldelica - it's perfect for the heats in the summer afternoons - its edge is taken off and the effect is very nice. Unlike the effects of most other weed that would make you even more lazy in the heats.

 

[yoss33]

Just a couple of fresh photos of the Zam clone that is a mother of this thread, grown by a friend this season guerrilla style. No watering...

 

[paisajedehierba]

Just a couple of fresh photos of the Zam clone that is a mother of this thread, grown by a friend this season guerrilla style. No watering...
View Image

View Image

This is very interesting. A beauti of a plant. How long since transplantation outdoors? Did you have had rainy periods in your area?

 

[baduy]

Shit this plant left to herself looks better than some guerrilla I struggle keeping alive by exhausting weekly waterings.

 

[paulo73]

Great stuff, thanks for sharing.

 

[yoss33]

Thanks for the interest, paulo
This year we had a relatively wet first half of summer, something like a showers once in 3 days average. The soil is very dry but most plants manage to survive. My friend also grows a Purple Mexican plant and it looks much worse, with leaves only on the tops. My experience is that Zamaldelica likes more water, but it seems this particular plant can do fine without much. It would be a monster if watered (clone was started in April).