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Crossing back to Jack Herer
- Thread starter Carraxe
- Start date
RoosterGrows
New member
I love the idea of this cross! Can't wait to see what bx1 looks like. Best of luck with the project.
JH75
JH75
There they are. Not many of them, and a couple of mutants, like virus-induced illness freaks. I'll give the mutants some time to recover before I cull them.
I believe I'll find something nice in the bunch. I still have some seeds, but I wouldn't like to go back to the last step.
Cheers
JH75
There they are. Not many of them, and a couple of mutants, like virus-induced illness freaks. I'll give the mutants some time to recover before I cull them.
I believe I'll find something nice in the bunch. I still have some seeds, but I wouldn't like to go back to the last step.
Cheers
S1 from a multiple hybrid like JH will get inconsistent results. It is useful when you want to know what genes can be transmitted and expressed, but it is not what I seek. I want plants similar to the original cut in flavor and aroma.
Also, I don't like the procedure, so I don't use it. In fact, I don't think I'll ever need it.
I like traditional breeding methods.
Cheers
Also, I don't like the procedure, so I don't use it. In fact, I don't think I'll ever need it.
I like traditional breeding methods.
Cheers
Back crossing using multi hybrids introduces genes that weren't there before & muddles the gene pool away from what it originally was. If you want to retain certain characteristics of a given plant you must first determine which ones are locked in & will pass absolutely.
Without DNA sampling equipment, S1 is the quickest way to discover this information.
Without DNA sampling equipment, S1 is the quickest way to discover this information.
S1
S1
You aren't the only one who insists on making S1. While it can be a nice tool, I don't like it and I won't use it.
S1, as you said, is very nice to see what is in there and what can be transmitted. But I don't want to make a genetic study about this plant, just get plants that are similar to the original cut. I really believe it can be done through selection and backcrossing. Crossing the way I do will create different and richer profiles, while selfing will lead to genetic degeneration in few generations.
Last generation was fantastic. Let's see what the new generation brings.
Cheers
S1
You aren't the only one who insists on making S1. While it can be a nice tool, I don't like it and I won't use it.
S1, as you said, is very nice to see what is in there and what can be transmitted. But I don't want to make a genetic study about this plant, just get plants that are similar to the original cut. I really believe it can be done through selection and backcrossing. Crossing the way I do will create different and richer profiles, while selfing will lead to genetic degeneration in few generations.
Last generation was fantastic. Let's see what the new generation brings.
Cheers
It often feels like arguments are about driving with just the accelerator, or just the brake. But shouldn't we figure out the best way to drive the car?
Excluding S1's seems a bit like trying to drive a car with just the brake, if your goal is really to get a 'seed copy' of your clone.
That said, the S1 alone sure ain't the fastest route, either.
Why not make an S1 (i.e., force heterozygous traits to segregate), then Bx to the original clone? S1 offspring that mate well with the clone (I.e., produce plants showing the clonal traits you value) could be crossed to find even better partners....
If you imagine working with Aa traits initially, crossing in other lines could force you to sort out types like AB, Ab, aB, and ab in addition to the pure a and A based types you're otherwise seeing. And never mind the pure 'B' combos later down the line. Seems overly complicated unless you are after qualities lacking in the original Aa of the clone!
Is that what you're thinking, MJP?
Backcrossing to introduce specific improvements, though, is why it was introduced to breeding!
Excluding S1's seems a bit like trying to drive a car with just the brake, if your goal is really to get a 'seed copy' of your clone.
That said, the S1 alone sure ain't the fastest route, either.
Why not make an S1 (i.e., force heterozygous traits to segregate), then Bx to the original clone? S1 offspring that mate well with the clone (I.e., produce plants showing the clonal traits you value) could be crossed to find even better partners....
If you imagine working with Aa traits initially, crossing in other lines could force you to sort out types like AB, Ab, aB, and ab in addition to the pure a and A based types you're otherwise seeing. And never mind the pure 'B' combos later down the line. Seems overly complicated unless you are after qualities lacking in the original Aa of the clone!
Is that what you're thinking, MJP?
Backcrossing to introduce specific improvements, though, is why it was introduced to breeding!
Btw - Carraxe, don't take my reply as anything but a gentle nudge to consider what you might be missing in the S1. Your project is very cool. This:
is really what it's all about!
Many people have insisted on selfing, both here and in other forum I write on. I am sure that most of the people that recommend selfing my clone, didn't ever self a plant. And that's funny.
I've been crossing and selecting for years, and I have developed my own criteria, based in my experience.
Zif, do you realize that the method you propose (making an S1 and later a Bx based on that S1) doesn't make sense at all? What reason do you see to do that? I believe that it implies heavy inbreeding for no reason. And I like males, I'm not taking them out nor breeding female seeds.
Cheers
I've been crossing and selecting for years, and I have developed my own criteria, based in my experience.
Zif, do you realize that the method you propose (making an S1 and later a Bx based on that S1) doesn't make sense at all? What reason do you see to do that? I believe that it implies heavy inbreeding for no reason. And I like males, I'm not taking them out nor breeding female seeds.
Cheers
I love to propose methods that I believe make no sense! ;-)
S1s of clones are analogous to F2 crosses in many respects. Intercrossing those plants lets you fix traits, and the bx idea allows recurrent selection via progeny testing. See Allard's text to fill in the blanks.
Or just keep having fun with your crosses. Like I said, I'm glad you're doing what you're doing, but thought you might like to hear a plan for using those S1s everyone suggests you make....
S1s of clones are analogous to F2 crosses in many respects. Intercrossing those plants lets you fix traits, and the bx idea allows recurrent selection via progeny testing. See Allard's text to fill in the blanks.
Or just keep having fun with your crosses. Like I said, I'm glad you're doing what you're doing, but thought you might like to hear a plan for using those S1s everyone suggests you make....
Carraxe,
Nobody is insisting that you use these methods.
You post...
Other folks reply, saying how they would go about doing such a project & attempting to explain how these things work in their eyes in order to gain a better understanding of this awesome plant.
The methods you propose are more or less outdated & if you dont study what you've got to work with your methods are just as senseless as any other pollen chucker.
All good...
You keep on keeping on & I will to.
In all reality, I don't give a fuck what you do with your plants. I just find a lot of folks projects interesting & attempt to gain a lil something while enriching their experience with what I've learned.
Nobody is insisting that you use these methods.
You post...
Other folks reply, saying how they would go about doing such a project & attempting to explain how these things work in their eyes in order to gain a better understanding of this awesome plant.
The methods you propose are more or less outdated & if you dont study what you've got to work with your methods are just as senseless as any other pollen chucker.
All good...
You keep on keeping on & I will to.
In all reality, I don't give a fuck what you do with your plants. I just find a lot of folks projects interesting & attempt to gain a lil something while enriching their experience with what I've learned.
I noticed you didn't give a fuck the moment it was obvious you didn't understand what I posted. Read it again.
I usually find interesting to join experiences. In fact, I don't see anything like this thread around here. I even spent time to answer you, but don't worry, I'm not answering you anymore, I don't give a fuck about what you say.
to understand the bxing like its jsut a way to get indentical plants to original mother is closed minded. i agree that bxing can be tool to make something even better than org. mother.. or as same as good, just different and variety is spice of life ...
im looking forward to another progress, great thread.
im looking forward to another progress, great thread.
How is the project carraxe?
Also how did you like the smoke of the JH x Mex plants?
Cheers!
Also how did you like the smoke of the JH x Mex plants?
Cheers!
Jack Herer 75%
Jack Herer 75%
I've been looking to the plants, now that they start flowering.
Well, bad luck. Not a single male in the bunch. I have 6 healthy females outdoors, so I'll get to know how the genes transmit, but I'll have to plant some more seeds to have a father for the next crossing with the original JH cut.
Cheers
Jack Herer 75%
I've been looking to the plants, now that they start flowering.
Well, bad luck. Not a single male in the bunch. I have 6 healthy females outdoors, so I'll get to know how the genes transmit, but I'll have to plant some more seeds to have a father for the next crossing with the original JH cut.
Cheers
