COYOTE DANGER?

[Guest]

Coyotes use to be extinct in my grow area but in the mid 80's they began to return and I noticed the first small den of 4 animals. I didnt know anything about them, so on that initial encounter, i acted very aggressive and confrontational, running at them yelling and slamming my shovel against the ground. Over the next 10 yrs, 2 more dens moved into the area and I acted the same way when i first encountered them. Twenty + years later, those same dens still existand I have never had any negative encounters with them. They know me and I believe understand that if not confronted, i am no threat. Even though the animals in the pack have changed, they seem to have passed on our mutual understanding.

Other guerilla growers in areas surrounding mine however, have for the past year or so told me the animals that they encounter in their areas are very aggressive and dangerous and some have taken to carrying handguns. I have trouble believing that. Ive done a couple of searches but ive read nothing that would indicate aggression toward humans. There was one news article out of Calif. of coyotes attempting to take a child from a yard in a rural area, but nothing else.

Does anyone know anything about these animals? Has anyone encounterd packs of them and felt threatened? Im puzzled by the different perceptions and experience between me and others. Ive never had any indication that they would be aggressive or dangerous.

anyone?

 

[FreezerBoy]

Children are food. Hard to imagine them going after a grown man unless it's about protecting young. But then I've encountered a pack, let alone been surrounded. Most I've seen is pairs or a mom and some pups. Is it possible your pals are easily frightened.

Get Saibai to send you some monkeys.

 

[Guest]

I hear you on the easily frightened FreezerBoy. They've scared my wife and she's not wanting me to go out after sunset or before daylight. I enjoy the peace of those times.

The packs I see are large now, with 12/15 adults. I recently came upon a pack that had only momments earlier taken a young deer. When I popped into the openning, the big alpha male ran at me making the sound they make,(they dont really bark), but i backed away and the rest of the animals pulled the deer away. I went the opposite direction. That is the only even remotely negative encounter Ive had and i see them every trip out.

 

[fishheadbob]

Coyotes have been around here for a good 15 years but I rarely see one. Every blue moon I might see one at a distance in a field. Mostly you can hear them on occasion yipping at whatever they yip at . I think they are great since they keep bunnies, and mice numbers down. I'd guess that the deer you saw wasn't killed by the coyotes, that's rather big for them, they were probably scavenging it, but we don't seem to have large packs in these parts so I don't really know.

 

[Guest]

Yeah, fisheadbob, they take young deer, fawns up to a month old all the time. I come across the kills with only the hooves and parts of the head left and a big area of flattened grass where you can tell the struggle occurred. I think they come upon them hidden in the tall grass and the mother runs.

My neighbor told me that he knew they killed and ate a newborn calf and he beliefs the pack came upon the cow giving birth and actually killed the calf before it was fully birthed, causing the cow to try and run in mid birth. He said he's putting his cows that are near birth in pen near the barn now.

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

Coyotes are cowards, at least the ones out here are.
I've only actually seen them a few times running across a field(chasing livestock). But once they see a human, they scatter. Of course, in urban settings they are known to steal small dogs and cats right out of peoples yards, but this is a learned behavior for a easy reward.

I don't fear the Coyote myself at all, but I do fear for my smaller livestock, thay can be murder on them. Insted, I'm more worried about Cougers......

 

[Derty]

I grew up in a northern wilderness area with a lot of coyote's in the area. There were a lot of farmers with cattle and livestock. Never heard of any animals or people that were attacked by them. They fear humans and stay hidden during the daytime. I have heard them at night. They were very active during the deer hunting season. During the day you would occasionally see one or two looking for wounded deer that were easy for them to find. When there is plenty of wild game they are not a threat. Stay clear of any denning areas in the spring when they have their young and you should be ok.

 

[Guest]

That's pretty much what Ive experienced Backcountry. They seem avoidant to me. Its usually at night that I encounter them. I do think they hunt ferrel cats, which are thick around cattle barns where the feed attracts rats. Cougars are serious stuff. They attack from a ambush position. Thats a real growing challenge now. Being killed and eaten!

Derty, I still doubt my neighbors story, unless the calf was still born maybe. I think peoples fears run away with them. I see them at roadkill deer at night all the time on country roads. Easy meal, as is a fawn hidden in the grass.

 

[Hindu Killer]

Here they are seldom seen..but ever present. We have cats come up missing and rarely a small dogs. Just the other night I was out and yippy yipp was going on around me...was thinking to myself all I have is this shovel. Anything can happen! Let us not forgett this!

 

[hamstring]

Isn’t a great bonus to see wildlife as we tend to our plots. I am big fan of and have respect for the wildlife in my area. I have encountered coyotes a few times this year and one in particular. I once saw him shadowing a calf that had a bad leg but the mother cow would not let him get close. Like most dogs coyotes are opportunist that if given the chance will go after most anything. In my experience they are very shy and reclusive but I will admit many years ago while coming back from a plot at dusk hearing a group of them vocalizing was frightening when you are all alone out there but I do not think I really had anything to worry about.

They are or have reintroduced many animals in the Midwest, Turkey, Otter, Wolf (as far south as WI) and even a wild Cougar (it was deemed not a released or escaped pet) was spotted in northern IL. I know others are not so happy because of their family pets security but I say lets all live together. I love hearing about other growers from Canada and Northwest US who have a lot of other concerns than farmer John on his combine.
I actually look forward to the day when you have to be concerned that you are not the dominant predator in the bush anymore.
PEACE

 

[darthvapor]

bring a dog with you. They can easily tell when coyotes and cougars are around. also carry some pepper spray if you dont like guns

 

[chuckyoufarley]

the animals that they encounter in their areas are very aggressive and dangerous and some have taken to carrying handguns.

wow animals with handguns holy crazy coyotes

 

[hamstring]

^^^ Totally agree respect for wildlife doesn't not mean hugging them it means knowing when to be prepared I always carry bear mace even though we have no bears. Actually I am more worried about farmer’s dogs that are unattended. I have seen two dogs in the bush tear a raccoon limb from limb the screams from the dieing raccoon were agonizing to hear but I knew that a couple of dogs with no master around were more dangerous than anything that was currently calling this piece of woods home.

 

[Guest]

hahaha. Chuckyoufarley, im tryin to keep my head down man. Thankgod they don't have fingers to pull the trigger with!

Darthvapor, I always considered a dog a problem. I can just imagine hiding to let hunters or farmers pass by without me being noticed while trying to shut up my barking dog.

hamstring, I agree with you, i enjoy the animals and am also happy to see them returned. My father told me that wolves ran the area until the 1940's and then the govt offered a 5$ a head bounty. Him and his 2 brothers killed over 50 in one year. They arent here anymore.
When I was young, i trapped during the winter, and in the summer, I caught and sold copperheads to the local university. I would take an old piece of tin and place it in a remote hollow, and the next morning when it was cool, they would be curled up under the tin. I caught and sold dozens and combined with farmers and others killing everyone they laid eyes on, they are almost extinct in the area now. I know that would make a lot of people happy, but as someone who grew up accustomed to their presence in the enviroment, i know they weren't as threatening as many think. Im sorry now for the part I played in that.

I also agree about the ferrel dog packs. For a while, 3 pitbull mixes and a brown lab looking dog were running the area and they were the only animals ive encountered that werent afraid of me.

HK, They'll have to eat that shovel before they eat me!

 

[B.C.]

Makes ya wonder about em sometimes, lol but no, they won't bother ya. The freakiest thing I ever seen was coon hunting one night. We had brought 5 black and tan coon hounds that night. All 5 were right at our feet with hackels raised and teeth showin! We heard some coyotes earlier, off to north and then when they got done yip-in and howlin, a pack staight to the west started in. We didn't think much of it, and the dogs sounded like they had a coon treed on the other side of the woods, so we headed that way. Before we got there the dogs quit barkin and were suddenly all around us. I mean tight, right at our feet, teeth showin, growlin, hackels raised. Then the coyotes started doin their thing vocally, they were all the way around us! I looked back at my brother and his eyes were as big as silver dollars LOL! ( I'll never forget that! ) All we ever took fer coon huntin was a 22 rifle and it only had shorts in it. My brother didn't waste any time pumpin one in the chamber and shootin tho! LOL! The coyotes scattered in every direction. We called it a night after that, we got ready ta go and my brother started off in the wrong direction home! LOL! it shook him up that much! Hell, we was only a half mile from the house! I still raz him about it from time ta time.....Our biggest problem with coyotes was when the females would go into heat and our male dogs would follow them off, only ta killed by the male coyotes. We lost several dogs that way. Never had any problems in our neck of the woods with humans bein attacked tho. Take care... BC

 

[Guest]

B.C, I thought all coon hunters were gone by now. One of the reasons I enjoy being out at night is that from the time i was old enough to follow my grandaddy, I was coon hunting. Sitting in the dark, listening for the dogs. The dogs had a high pitched, broken bark for being on the track and a continuous monotone at the tree. I still remember my last coon hunting trip with my 2 grandfathers. They were in their 80's and couldnt hear any more and we had an old 3 legged red bone that was so old he could barely hunt. We used to get a thousand dollars for breeding that old redbone. I knew and my grandfathers knew that this was our last hunt.
They are both gone now for many years, and old red died shortly after our hunt. Its one of the fondest memmories I hold.

My grandfather used to joke that our mule was worth 10, 000$. He knew that because a local coon hunter tried to trade us 2 coon dogs worth 5,000$ each for it. You know a coon hunter would never lie about the value of a good dog.

 

[FirstTracks]

SB: i'm not a fan of the coyotes in the area, though i understand its their natural place. Their presence keeps me out of some parts of the forest by myself after sunset.

the coyote aren't really dangerous, imho, when alone. however, in large packs they can get aggressive, as you experienced. a couple growing problems with them in my area are;
1. red wolves from ADK way breeding with coyote and migrating around ny. the mixed breeds grow larger than the normal coyote and are supposed to be more aggressive/less reclusive than straight coyotes.
2. wild dogs/ferrel dogs breeding with coyote. the wild dogs have a distict lack of fear/respect for humans and the offspring from coyote x ferrel dog are known to be both larger and more aggressive than the straight coyote.

i have been fortunate enough not to have a visual encounter with coyote, though i have come upon a blood spattered, footprint-surrounded den with some fairly large prints and believe i have been stalked by one or more on several occassions while walking through certain sections of forest late at night.

i believe one problem i have is that i enjoy stalking deer herds to watch them and see how they behave. unfortunately, predators are most likely doing the same thing some of the time, which means that i am often in their 'line of fire'.

You mentioned the cougars becoming a problem. I'm with ya on that. Those are what i actually worry about now, and not so much coyote. one or more have been passing through my area fairly frequently in the last few years. At least one has left scat and there are other signs of one denning up in certain areas i pass through. thats what scares me, because those things will jump you anytime. Bonus for me is that deer are still overpopulated in my area so the cougar most likely has an ample food supply. i've thought about wearing a paper plate with a face on it (as they do in india with tigers) to avoid showing the back of my head to any cougar that might be watching me.

finally, i'm not a huge fan of blackbear in my area. they're not huge or anything, and they'll get out of the way if you're being loud and they hear you coming. only problem is that when going to remote plots, i'm kind of trying to be as quiet as possible. Sometimes ill intentionally step on sticks if walking into an area where i know bear have been recently (fresh tracks visible, etc) just to warn any animals that i might be there.

I know the balck bear aren't anything in comparison to our BC brethren who trounce through grizzly territory almost every time they go to a mountain plot, so i guess i can't complain about that.

maybe someday i'll carry a gun with me and worry less. my problem with that is that i'm in the animals space, and if im there and invading its space, it has some sort of legitimate right to jump me..........since i don't belong, and it does.

 

[Guest]

Hey Firstracks,

I havent seen any crossbreeds yet and hope I dont. As i say, ferrel dogs are more of a threat in my book.

Watch the black bear. Your'e right, theyll usually get out of the way but the fact is that if a grizzley attacks you, its seldom to eat you and playing dead may save you. If a black attacks you, he's doing it to kill you and eat you. Attacks are rare but usually fatal. For sure on the cougar. I can just see myself nealing down looking for preflowers and wham!

Ive been eyeballing my grandsons little toy gun. Its got a siren and flashing light and makes a pow-pow-pow sound that really loud. It scares the hell out of my cat and dog, they both steer clear when he runs through the yard shooting it. Im thinking it may be good to carry. 7.99 and you cant shoot yourself.

 

[LazLo]

silverback

Coyotes have become a suburban problem with so many protected preserves. Residents lose dogs and cats to them year after year. Two dens were spotted in one preserve this spring and the public was instructed to stay away to allow the coyotes to continue with their lives. No plans to remove or relocate any.

I carry a child's plastic whistle. On a string around my neck. I can even wear the skeeter net over my hat and still blow thru it. There are coyotes around these parts but the woods I use hasn't hosted a permanent pack yet. They eat somewhere else since the dead deer and coons aren't scavenged. The whistle is in case I come accross other peeps and act like I'm looking/whistling for my dog. A reason for being there.

Last summer a coyote walked into a Subway shop in Chicago's Loop and climbed into an open beverage cooler. In broad daylight!

BackCountry

A cougar was shot by Chicago police this spring after living under a porch for 3 days. DNA proved it was a wild 3 year old male from South Dakota. It had been spotted in southern Wisconsin and scat DNA proved it to be the same one. The last reported wild cougar in Illinois was 1864.

FirstTracks

The face on a paper plate could be replaced with a Halloween mask....say a Freddy Kruger type.

Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how popular it remains.

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

.... Never heard of any animals or people that were attacked by them....

Here, Sheep ranches are still pretty common, if you don't watch your sheep close in lambing season epecially, the Coyotes will eat all your profits.