Convert 120v ballast to 240v and 240v receptacle question

[richyrich]

I have Sun System 1 ballasts made by Sunlight Supply Co. and I am switching them over to 240v. I know how to change the wire on the inside. My question is: Can I still use the original wire plug that came with it that plugs into 120v receptacles?

Second question: If I use those wire plugs, how do I wire up a 240v circuit onto a 120v receptacle. On a 240v receptacle you run your two hots on the two brass colored terminals and then connect the ground. On the 120v receptacle, do I just hook up one hot to the brass colored terminal and the other hot to the silver colored terminal (the neutral for 120v) and then finish up with the ground?

Answers appreciated.

 

[richyrich]

Or...

Should I just keep everything 120v. I ran 10/3 romex, so I have 4 wires; connected to a double throw 30amp breaker. Can I run 2 single throw 30 amp breakers instead and connect 1 hot to each and at the 120v receptacles share the neutral and ground? Each hot wire is 10 gauge so they should be able to handle 30 amps, correct? Each 30 amp breaker would then be running 2 ballasts on 120v for a total of 19 amps.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I have Sun System 1 ballasts made by Sunlight Supply Co. and I am switching them over to 240v. I know how to change the wire on the inside. My question is: Can I still use the original wire plug that came with it that plugs into 120v receptacles?

Second question: If I use those wire plugs, how do I wire up a 240v circuit onto a 120v receptacle. On a 240v receptacle you run your two hots on the two brass colored terminals and then connect the ground. On the 120v receptacle, do I just hook up one hot to the brass colored terminal and the other hot to the silver colored terminal (the neutral for 120v) and then finish up with the ground?

Answers appreciated.

I would say yes.

Some dont like using 120 outlets for 240 but technically they can be used. Just dont plug anything 120 into those outlets.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Or...

Should I just keep everything 120v. I ran 10/3 romex, so I have 4 wires; connected to a double throw 30amp breaker. Can I run 2 single throw 30 amp breakers instead and connect 1 hot to each and at the 120v receptacles share the neutral and ground? Each hot wire is 10 gauge so they should be able to handle 30 amps, correct? Each 30 amp breaker would then be running 2 ballasts on 120v for a total of 19 amps.

I dont know about that. It seems like it would work but I dont know about sharing the neutral. I am sure some of the pros will respond

 

[richyrich]

Thanks yamaha.

You can share a neutral, but each circuit has to be on an opposite side of the bus in the main box. I just googled it. I think I will go with 240v.

I ran 10/3 romex and have 4 wires; I don't have any where to hook up the neutral on the 120v receptacles. I read that previous code said it was ok to just run two hots and a ground for 240v. New code I believe calls for the addition of a neutral. Any idea what to do with my neutral wire or should I just tape it up and not use it. Maybe should of just bought 10/2 romex.

 

[richyrich]

I got it. No neutral needed. I could always use it for a split phase circuit if I ever want some 120v off of it.

Here is a really good tutorial.

http://homerepair.about.com/od/electricalrepair/ss/240v_breaker_4.htm

 

[ben ttech]

there is a caveat...

no neutral only applies to when its a dedicated line [ nothing between breaker and single appliance ] such as oven or rangetop or waterheater...

the rest of the time ONE neutral is sufficent to complete the circuits of two hots IF and ONLY when they draw power from seperate bar in the main service panel...

which by design is unavoidable when you use a bonded circuit breaker to energize a new dedicated branch circuit of xx/3

 

[richyrich]

there is a caveat...

no neutral only applies to when its a dedicated line [ nothing between breaker and single appliance ] such as oven or rangetop or waterheater...

the rest of the time ONE neutral is sufficent to complete the circuits of two hots IF and ONLY when they draw power from seperate bar in the main service panel...

which by design is unavoidable when you use a bonded circuit breaker to energize a new dedicated branch circuit of xx/3

I gave myself a quick google lesson. My breaker box has all of the breakers stacked in one row. I believe each breaker alternates as you stack them up from Bus A to Bus B. Something like this.

--- bus A
--- bus B
--- bus A
--- bus B
--- bus A
... and so on.

When I add a double throw breaker, which in essence are two breakers connected; the breaker takes two spots in the box so they take up one spot on bus A and one on bus B.

If I want to run 120v, I just have to make sure that my 2 single throw breakers are stacked right after another. One on bus A and the other on bus B. Therefore, they phase one another out if pulling the same amps with a shared neutral. If they are pulling different amp loads you subtract the two and that is what u have going through the neutral wire. Can't let the amp load going through the neutral wire get over the wire rating.

 

[Mr Celsius]

I would say yes.

Some dont like using 120 outlets for 240 but technically they can be used. Just dont plug anything 120 into those outlets.

I do it everytime... mostly cause I'm cheap. 240v plugs are expensive, so are the cords.

You gonna have people in your room plugging things in? The correct answer is: no. So shouldn't be a problem.

 

[VenturaHwy]

Sounds like you have it figured out richyrich,
"Can't let the amp load going through the neutral wire get over the wire rating."
It never will.

 

[fumancu]

I assume your going to need a timer Get a heavy duty intermatic run wire to it then an outletbox.something like this.IMO I would keep it all 120v.run each 30amp line to its own timer then to a 4 outletbox each light would have its own outlet.(dont get cheap ones get good 20 amp ones) 2x1000w on one outlet is maxing out a 20amp outlet.Ive seen a single 1000w melt down a cheap 15 amp outlet.If your really richyrich.you could run your 10/3 to a sub panel and put each light on its own 15amp breaker and only have one light on any one wire.Not only does wire size matter but what you hook to it to.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=93799

 

[richyrich]

I went with a 30 amp double pole breaker at the main box running 10/3 romex to a 240v Intermatic timer. From there I ran two 12/2 lines to the one same square box you have and each 20 amp receptacle has its own line. I just picked up a couple of thermostat switches. I am going to put them inline between the Intermatic timer and the receptacle. One thermo switch for each line because they are only rated to 16 amps each. That way if temps get above 90F the power cuts off at the receptacle and lights go off. I went 240v on everything. It was really easy.

 

[fumancu]

If you plan on using 4x1000w I Think you are maxing out your timer and both outlets and thats not good.0ne light is 5 amps approx @240.Or 10 amps @120v=40 amps10 amps for each light.Timer max is 40 amps @ 120v each outlet is max 20 amps each.Your using full limit.You will have 20amps going through thermo unit.Going 240v doesnt cut amps in half only devides it between two lines.I could be wrong on this your going to need two timers and four seperate outlets.Thats why I said start at a sub panel from the 10/3.

 

[fumancu]

You have 20amps going through #12 wire im not sure but that pushing the limit to I think.Allso everything is 120v not 240v the way you have it wired.

 

[richyrich]

I have 10/3 off of a 30 amp double pole breaker feeding the 240v intermatic timer. From the timer I have two 12/2 lines feeding a 20 amp receptacle each. The two receptacles are sharing one utility box. Before each receptacle I put an inline thermostat switch rated at 16 amps. Total amount of thermostat switches are two. One before each receptacle. Total amp load on each receptacle is 9-10 amps running 240v: below the 16 amp load limit of the thermostat switch; below the 20 amp limit on the receptacle; and below the 20 amp limit on the 12/2 wire. Total draw on the entire circuit is 18-20 amps at 240v. Well below the 40 amp limit of the intermatic timer. That is for four 1000 watt ballasts running on 240v. I am not running that many. I left room if I ever want to expand.

 

[fumancu]

Do you have one hot line going to each plug if so thats 120v going to outlet#1 other hot going to outlet #2 thats 120v.240v divided into two 120v.
each lamp 10 amps or 20 per outlet. If it is 240v you hav 2 hots to each outlet.each lamp would be 5amps on each line or 4 lamps would be 20amps on each line.maxing out timer and outlet eather way.You said 18 to 20 amps thats on each line thats total 40

 

[richyrich]

Do you have one hot line going to each plug if so thats 120v going to outlet#1 other hot going to outlet #2 thats 120v.240v divided into two 120v.
each lamp 10 amps or 20 per outlet. If it is 240v you hav 2 hots to each outlet.each lamp would be 5amps on each line or 4 lamps would be 20amps on each line.maxing out timer and outlet eather way.You said 18 to 20 amps thats on each line thats total 40

I'm starting to get confused now. lol

I have 2 hots going to each receptacle. If I ran one 1000 watt ballast on the receptacle at 240v wouldn't I be pulling 2.5 amps from each hot for a combined total of 5 amps at 240v. Isn't that the reason we switch to 240v so we can lower the amp load on the wire.

If I understand you correctly then I draw 40 amps no matter what. Then my 30 amp breaker would be tripping all the time. That is the suggested amp breaker for running 4 1000 watt ballasts at 240v. It must be correct. Yes, no?

 

[richyrich]

Why does my 1000 watt ballast say total amp draw is 9.5 amps at 120v and 5 amps at 240v. With your reasoning wouldn't just be 9.5 amps either way.

 

[VenturaHwy]

You had it right if you have 2 hots going to the receptacles - its 240v and 5 amps per light.

"inline thermostat switch rated at 16 amps"
Is this thermostat rated for 240 volts at 16 amps?

To tell you the truth I would not do it like this, halides are not made to turn on and off in short periods of time. That is what an exaughst fan is for. I would wire it differently also so you don't have to change your ballasts from 120v to 240v.

 

[richyrich]

I thought so.

The thermostat switches are for 120/208/240. Can handle 16 amps at either variation. Four total wires. Two if using 120v and 4 for 240v.

My lights will probably never turn off. I have a sealed room with a/c and CO2. I put the thermostat switches as a preventative measure. My a/c does not have an auto restart. I have had brown outs turn off my a/c and have walked into my room at 100F +. Plus if there is a fire it will kill the lights too. I am going to set the thermostat at 90F cut off.

All I did was make one timer for all the lights and a power cut off with thermostat control instead of buying all the individual components from the store. I would of had to buy CAP systems light timer & power controller, a power relay box and then a seperate thermostat to control that. It would of cost $400-500. I made it all for $80.