Controlling the damn Caterpillars this year

[Sideways]

Hey all, whats shakin

-So there are a few threads around but wanted to start a specific thread on CONTROLLING CATERPILLARS. If you have grown outdoors in northern cali, you have had them- Green, bud eating, crapping, mold producing little bastards.

I tried spinosad and Bt in combo last year, as well as azatrol early in flowering with some success but they still caused about 10-15% damage. In years past I have had up to 30% crop loss =(

I have some questions for those who might be more in the know:

What is the specific type of moth that is laying the eggs- I did some research and think I have it narrowed down to Gypsy moths. Am I correct?

If so, do they lay eggs all the way through the fall?

Do they lay eggs at all times of the day?

Is some type of mosquito netting through say late august a viable option?

Have any of you had any more success with any other SAFE PRODUCTS/deterrents?

It seems like this is a big problem for a lot of people, including myself and I cant see why we cant pool our collective knowledge and come up with a solution............thanks!

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I've only grown outdoors in SoCal. I'm sure the caterpillars are similar, but just show up at slightly different times of year. BT is your best bet. If you can really cover the plants you can achieve total kill. All you have to do is get them to eat it and they're dead. A large pump sprayer with a wand works good. Don't forget to spray again in a week or so because more eggs will be layed. You have to fight them with the BT all season. By the end they will be trying to eat into the bases of buds which really F's things up. BT isn't poisonous though, so there's no harm in using it many times.

 

[gronko]

I just normally pick them off myself and feed them to my worm farm.

Do that every couple of days and it will help cut down loss.

Also try and grow beneficial plants that will deter/attract the pest as well as encourage birds to come to your garden and eat your caterpillars for you.

 

[Mitch Connor]

^ A friend of mine has had great success using multiple bird houses/water fountains on site to lure birds in. Works surprisingly well.

 

[gronko]

And if you add in a frog pond, the frogs will help too
Especially for the lil critters that come out at night when the birds are asleep.

^ A friend of mine has had great success using multiple bird houses/water fountains on site to lure birds in. Works surprisingly well.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

^ A friend of mine has had great success using multiple bird houses/water fountains on site to lure birds in. Works surprisingly well.

A great idea, many thanks.

I use Neem monthly and am starting with BT as well this year.

From sitting out with them at night, waiting for rippers, I was shocked at how many Moths were coming and going, amazed there were not a million Caterpillars on them given the Moth traffic. I may well get some mosquito netting cages up over them, it is only the buds that are attacked that rot here with most strains.

Good luck all !

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

Rootenone/Pyrethrins concentrate will prevent them and kill them up until it rains and then you would have to retreat. Both chemicals are nuetralized within 10 days and have no lasting effects. But......

My understanding of caterpillar control really only came after growing many different kinds of cannabis over the years. Some strains are very succeptable to caterpillars while many others either arent attacked by caterpillars or they demonstrate a degree of vigor that doesnt allow caterpillars to damage the plant in any substantial way.

C99 is terribly vulnerable to caterpillars and they can kill it.
Kali mist can be grown in a caterpillar paradise and you willl never see one on your plant.
Ak47 can be destroyed by caterpillars
Kc 33 is totally immune to caterpillarS.

find or develop a strain that isnt succeptable to them and elimate that headache altogether. I havent seen a caterpillar on my cannabis in 10 years.

 

[Sideways]

Thanks for the great ideas.
Mrgreen- I have been using BT most of the season but usually only apply every two weeks, maybe I should be applying weekly. Also I have not used neem oil as a spreader sticker; I will try that this year. Does anyone that uses neem worry about the smell/taste? that stuff reeks.
Mitch- Great idea with the bird houses.... I always thought there were thriving bird populations in the area but maybe they need to be closer to the plants for better control. forgot to mention but I have also used praying mantis's and lady bugs in the garden to control pests, with some success.
Chaos- That is good parenting ya got going-babysitting them all night for a couple of months! Fuck rippers! Others have also said that they see moths coming and going at night, that is why I wanted to get some specific info on the type of moth> so I could look up their life cycle reproductive habits.Ie- when do they lay their eggs, what time of day? Then maybe I could just put up the netting at dusk and remove it in the morning.
DS- I find that the plants that are most succeptable to mold will be the most hard hit. I have not found any plants in many years of outdoors that are impervious to em.
No caterpillars in 10 years.... my god thats awesome. So you grow alot of KC33 and kali then? I do have some of heads kali x chem d...... next year.

Thanks for the great ideas, keep em coming.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Rootenone/Pyrethrins concentrate will prevent them and kill them up until it rains and then you would have to retreat. Both chemicals are nuetralized within 10 days and have no lasting effects. But......

My understanding of caterpillar control really only came after growing many different kinds of cannabis over the years. Some strains are very succeptable to caterpillars while many others either arent attacked by caterpillars or they demonstrate a degree of vigor that doesnt allow caterpillars to damage the plant in any substantial way.

C99 is terribly vulnerable to caterpillars and they can kill it.
Kali mist can be grown in a caterpillar paradise and you willl never see one on your plant.
Ak47 can be destroyed by caterpillars
Kc 33 is totally immune to caterpillarS.

find or develop a strain that isnt succeptable to them and elimate that headache altogether. I havent seen a caterpillar on my cannabis in 10 years.

Sad to say I have seen plenty of Caterpillars on Kali Mist here, but it is one of the few that does not automatically rot, often just turning golden brown, can be picked off and smoked.

There are plenty of differences as you say between the strains, like with Spider Mites, they seem to have a taste for some more than others, dramaticaly so sometimes.

 

[growinthehills]

Has anyone here noticed the correlation between your garden being near oak trees and having caterpillars. The only gardens that I have seen with caterpillar problems were in close vicinity to Oak trees...

 

[feenom]

Has anyone here noticed the correlation between your garden being near oak trees and having caterpillars. The only gardens that I have seen with caterpillar problems were in close vicinity to Oak trees...

i have heard this as well. in fact my garden is surrounded by oak trees and we got hit HARD last year. Squishing those fuckers when the ladies were 6 ft tall finishers was fairly easy, but this year they are already 6-8 ft right, so I need to strike preemptively.

I am going to hit them with the BT every week till a few weeks into flower . I am also going to douche the heck out of the oaks with them every few days up till harvey... I like the bird idea, thanks!

Do you think the moths lay the eggs in the oaks, then the larvae come into the garden from the wind or do they also come lay directly on the plants?

respect.

 

[Sideways]

There are several oaks around our property but I am not sure if the type of caterpillar that affects/harbors them is the cause. I have problems with these guys - Cabbage loopers

http://insects.tamu.edu/images/insects/color/cloop1.jpg


They are from the little white yellow moths that are in the garden this time of year to the fall. They lay their egg sacks on the undersides of the leaves, I am starting to think mostly in the dusk or nighttime.

 

[biteme]

both spinosad and bt are effective for caterpillers, especially so if you spray early and often as a preventative measure. i live in the midwest usa and this year saw a major infestation of the "thcworm" which is the little orange mofo often found in bud. lots of peeps think they are cute and a sign of good herb but too many will wipe out a garden quick. caterpillers are easy to get at cause they crawl around the external parts of the plant but these worms come from eggs laid in the stems and in fact become embedded inside where it is difficult to kill them. prior to budding, you can spray with malithion or one of the other killers such as avid or floramite which should get them. spinosad and bt will eventually get them too, but major damage could be done by then. another prob with these critters is they eventually will work themselves to eating the bud and shitting in it, a major mold attractant. most of these moths can continue to lay eggs through august. peace-biteme

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

Hey sideways and others. I may have mispoken a bit. By "caterpillars", im talking about borer worms. They bore a hole in the branch/ stem which can killl the whole branch on less hardy varieties and kill the whole plant if theyre bad.

Borers are different than other types of caterpillars that are often voracious about eating leaves. Is everyone talking boreing worms or some other kind of cats?

 

[D.S. Toker. MD]

hmmm, double post.

 

[Sideways]

D.S. I dont have a problem with borer worms, mostly the looper type. The looper eats the buds/stems and the buds then rot from their poop. It shows up as browning in certain areas of the buds, then progresses to full on moldy buds if not taken care of. I attached a link in my previous post of a looper, but you should post up a picture of a borer, so that we can know what those little bastards look like as well.

On another note, the BT, spinosad, azatrol and pyrethrin should kill them just the same.

 

[biteme]

yes, d.s., sideways is correct and so are you. for the most part the treatment for borers and caterpillers are the same and when it comes to treating with organics both bt and spinosad are highly recommended for either. imo, it is easier to get after caterpillers due to their high visibility and obvious chewing of the leaves and many can be destroyed by hand. not the case with borers who are often deeply embedded in the stems as they feast on new pith, but these chems will still get them eventually.

it also seems that manufacturers of these products will interchange worm/caterpiller in the language of treatment as a regular practise.

peace-biteme

 

[Yesca73]

might be dumb ? but what is bt

 

[Sideways]

Bacillus Thuringensis- It is a naturally occuring bacteria that affects caterpillars digestive systems. The eat it and die. It does not have any affect on anything other than caterpillars.

 

[biteme]

one more comment: if you get real anal about getting rid of worms/caterpillers quickly there is another new (to me) organic called bayer systemic and yes, i believe it is made by the aspirin company. bayer systemic is worked into the soil around the plant instead of the foliar spray. uptake is through the roots but the results are still the same-dead worms/caterpillers. so if you have a big time prob you can give the damn things the double whammy. a friend of mine told me $9 bottle in the usa will treat 45 plants.

peace-biteme