Contorted "Kale" like new growth

[GirlWonderGrows]

Ok, the basics:
I'm growing in soil
PBP at 1/2 to full strength, with every 4th watering or so. (not the best, I know)
These small plants are in 4"x4" or similar pots,
They are about 2 or 3 weeks out of the cloner dome,
They are under a 400 MH which is around a foot from the top of the canopy,
They are also getting a bit of light from 2 other 400's and 2 1000's that are also in the veg room.
Lights are on 24/7,
Cloning happens mostly into rapid rooters or similar, most of these appear to be into rapid rooters brand plugs.
The cloning is done to the side of the room, and I get fairly good success from standard "high altitutde" domes.
I use the VitaGrow rooting solution.
The ventilation is 2 x 12" ecoline blowers, one "in" and and one "out". The "in" comes from the stairwell to the basment (where the grow is) and the "out" blows into the flower room. The "in" blower has been off for 2 months due to the cold, temps are a bit low even without it.
My thermometer is wigged out, but it was frozen solid outside for 2 weeks and my flower room got almost down to 50* in the day time when the lights were off (flower lights run during sundown outside).


Ok, now that you've got a small pic of whats happening in the room, the symptoms.
New growth is contorted and has a kringly 'kale' like look to it. It is not discoloured, perhaps a bit darker on some plants. This is affecting perhaps 15% of the 4x4's and a bit more of the freshly transplanted one gallons (may be 20%)
It is affecting seveal diffrent strains.
It is mostly effecting the top parts of the plants, the newer growth on the bottom is less effected.

Ok, I have a $2 camera, so these pics suck, but I hope to make up for quality with quantity. Below are pics of 3 differnt plants, each a diffrent strain.
All 3:

Better Scale View:

Leafs:

So what do you think? I'm suspecting cold, but it could be a virus or too close a light (though theres not other signs in these). If it is cold, why is hanging on so long? There should be good foward growth by now. Anyway, please give me your thoughts.

GWG

 

[Tunefull]

Hello there
I have the same thing going on in my Room out the shed(had it last winter aswell)..It started around the same time as the temps outside dropped(Going thru a frosty period at mo)
I have switched my Exhuast fan off for a few days till the cold weather pass's...I really need to sort a dimmer switch set up on my fan(To make it suck less out)..I know is not ideal not haveing a exhuast fan on,But it is that or nothing in my case(as i say i am out the shed(my indoor cab has no probs(i flower indoors)))


After last year i have added a Small metal heater(Like a Radiator but a tube)...It works,But when the bitter cold comes,It is just to cold..

My light cycle is somit like 22/2(so it aint to cold with lights off)I dont like to go 24/0...I like to give the room/plants a break each day

Bottom line(tho wait for the others to reply)
I would say u have the same prob as me,just to cold out there...But lots u can do about it(so dont worry)*smiles*

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I'm just kinda curious about this....why don't ya'll just shut off the ventilation and add some CO2 if temps are too low? The plants would get what they need and a generator would add heat as well....

 

[Tunefull]

Hello MTF

Yep have had to shut down my fans(but not adding CO2)...The cold weather really crept up on us(in the UK)Has been Very mild up untill a few days back...Very cold now tho....

My room is for veggin only,Do u think i would NEED to Add CO2 m8?(or would my passive intake be enough?

 

[Blackvelvet]

Pure Blend Pro Grow
3-1.5-4
1.0625 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 84
P 18
K 93
Mg 14
Ca 28
Fe 0

I assume this is the fert you are using. Clones 2-3 weeks out of the cloner should receive 100 to 150 ppm nitrogen. This works out to be 11.9 ml to 17.9 ml 3-1.5-4 per gallon of water. Do this with every watering.

20% of what you water with should pour out the drain holes. This prevents excess salts from building up.

4x4 pots are wimpy. You should go to at least a 1-2 gallons. I suggest using a soiless mix like promix with added perlite.

If your current soil mix lacks dolomite lime, you might benefit by adding 5ml cal mag plus to the pbp grow. You should also add this when levels of cal mag are low or the lime is running out after some time growing and regular watering.

Ph is important. Here is how to test your soil mix.
Pour through method: Water/fertilize the plant. Wait 30 minutes. Apply a slight amount of distilled water till you get a little bit of runoff. Test that ph.

1:1 method: Pull plant carefully out of the container. Scrape 1/4 cup soil mix off the root ball. Avoid damaging roots too much. Mix this with 1/4 cup distilled water. Stir. Let sit 1/2 hour. Test ph of the slurry.

5.6-6.2 is good in soilless potting soil containing peatmosss, bark, perlite, vermiculite, etc... Soil mixes you want a higher ph like 6.0 to 6.5

Adjusting the fertilizer water after adding everything gives best results. Ph 6 is okay for this using both soilless and soil grows.

You should not allow root temperatures to go below 68 degrees. Deficiencies will appear because water becomes too sticky. Add a little heater during lights off.

I am ultra stoned. Hope that helps ya! :smile:

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Hello MTF

Yep have had to shut down my fans(but not adding CO2)...The cold weather really crept up on us(in the UK)Has been Very mild up untill a few days back...Very cold now tho....

My room is for veggin only,Do u think i would NEED to Add CO2 m8?(or would my passive intake be enough?

If there's fresh air getting to them it's not really needed...but the more CO2 you can get to them, the better the growth potential is. I just figured it'd be a win/win to kill the ventilation (thereby preventing heat loss) and adding a CO2 gen to give the plants some CO2 (and raise temps at the same time).

Of course if you're not worried about explosive growth and are content with them just doing their thing, then don't worry about it

 

[GirlWonderGrows]

Well, the extra funds for the gen are a problem, plus the system is not at all a closed enviroment. there are 2 12" fans venting veg in flower, then another 12" hooked to a carbon scrubber and blowing through a/c hoods, until finaly getting to a 1.5 HP blower that forces everything up the chimney. I'd say the entire air of the basment is changed out every minute or less. And even when its freezing outside temps still get to 80 at lights on.
It just seems like alot to reduct eveything for a cold spell. Plus the CO2 would go completly to waste, as there are numerious other constraining factors on growth.

In terms of the soil type and pot size, I'm currently using black gold, yes, ghetto I know but cheap and available. The 4"x4" pots are just one stage of growth, they got there from clones then get moved to gallon pots at or before where you saw these, then on to 2 gallon, 5 gallon and often 10 gallon pots before flowering.

I think the pH is fairly ok, I have one of thoes worthless soil pH meters and it reports everything is fine. The Black gold is fairly well buffered and stable, and I don't use any additives except PBP. They get fairly frequent flushing as water is the primary mite control method.

And yes, this grow room is like the wild fucking west.. herding mites and cold winds and just all kinds of bullshit. But its a comprimise so I'm working with it for now.

 

[VanGrow]

rapid and frequent temp fluctuations and small pots dont mix......they get cold real fast

 

[Tunefull]

Ahh MTF
I can see where the win/win comes into i t now(as i am turning my fan off Anyway,it be worth useing Co2 because the fans wont suck it straight out?)

K will look into Useing Some CO2
I have no idea how to Introduce it into the room....

Do i just Run a pipe from the Bottle into the room?(How do i regulate how much goes in?(is to much a bad thing?)

 

[MTF-Sandman]

^^Yup...If you don't normally run a closed system, I wouldn't invest in a whole CO2 setup just for the odd times that you need to turn off the ventilation, but a simple sugar/yeast setup should be plenty adequate to keep em happy until the temps warm up.

 

[Tunefull]

Ahh so it is a bit expensive setting up a CO2 system?

And the yeast/sugar Setup REacts by giving off Co2?(Lol Also is Co2 Oxygen?)

 

[Guest]

Hello Tunefull...... Sandman asked me to stop by.....

Hello Tunefull...... Sandman asked me to stop by.....

I have been using the yeast fermentation process for several years now with much success.

Application to each grow room is different based on size, ventilation, temps, etc.

I will add a drawing on the bottom for you to look at. It just may well be that this will all come out the better for you. I have used setups as small as one gallon and as large as 55gal drums.

I will let the picture explain the set up and then you can ask questions if there is something you don't understand. I will need to know the measurements of the room you are going to supply and if a water source and drainage/sewer source are close by.

To start off with you will need a large container. From the sounds of it at least 1-3 5gal drums with lids, some duct tape to seal the lids because the seals are not air tight, some glue to seal around the tubes where they access the primary and secondary containers, liquid nails (water proof) kind works great, and some tubing.... how much depends on the method as you will see in the pic and how far you are going to run it. I put heating pads under my tanks that keep it just warm enough during lights out to keep the yeast culture alive and hotter for more activity and CO2 by the yeast during the dark periods. The cheap heating pads work the best with no auto off after two hour feature. Then place them on a timer with just a few periods 15min at a time is best during the dark then 1/2hr on and 1/2hr off during the light. Even a little more heat about an hour before light and off an hour prior to dark. 3 pounds of sugar per 5gal bucket will last about a week once you get the hang of it. I use a 30gal on a hand dolly but that may be too heavy for you so adjust to yourself and just add 5gal buckets if that is better for you. I once ran a 55gal drum in a 15x15 area and kept the ppm around 2000 which is optimal. Little hard to change out, though. Anyway this should give you an idea of where to start and also what questions to ask. If this sounds like something that will suit you.



Peace