Constant problem at a building

[Hookah79]

1st thing, drop the pH to the 6.2- 6.5 range.

I want to say ph comes out at 5.5 after RO then climbs up to 6 6.1 over night while aerating.After i add A and B it drops down to 3.8 3.9 then i ph up.This is when going the RO route.

When using only a chlorine and sediment filter the ph comes at 7.5 and climbs up to 8 over night.I add A and B it comes down to 6.4-6.5 then i ph down to 5.8 5.9.

 

[f-e]

I forgot this thread, so skimmed through it again.

I don't like the look of the wall or ceiling.
I'm unsure about delivery hoses, but I'm not that interested.
Your tank mixing is the biggest mystery here. I'm not sure if you are weighing the ingredients, or giving them in the right order. Everything points to you using a PPM meter to ration out your bags, and that right there, won't work.

Grab a bottle of ionic and follow the dosing instructions. Feed one at half, one at 100% and one at 150%. Just that one bottle of ionic, and the acid needed to get in range. Dumb this down to the absolute basics. You might want to do a second plats at 100% feed using water brought in. Then you have changed your water, your delivery equipment, your feed levels, your pH and your feed. If the problem is fixed or not, you are at least homing in on if it's the environment or the feed. Splitting the burden of finding this in half.



Alternately, take some of this opps tank to another opp. Feed just one plant at another location, from this locations tank

 

[unnamedmike]

High!
I think that by putting ONE plant in a pot with soil, watering it with bottled water, and observing its development, you could diagnose in a short time what the fault is in your room.

 

[f-e]

High!
I think that by putting ONE plant in a pot with soil, watering it with bottled water, and observing its development, you could diagnose in a short time what the fault is in your room.

That's another route, but doesn't separate food from water. He has lots of plants. He could do one with bottled and one with tap. Then just one might get better. Though proving soil works might not be what a hydro grower wants.

Edit: I suspect it's feed, and he thinks it's water, so changing both doesn't appeal to me personally. I would want to see each done separately.
I had to line mine up recently for different treatments. I had a new feed. I found it was Ca bought one back, before moving to how much. Though I saw some interesting morphology response to Mg in one strain. Sometimes you just have to treat them all differently, to run many tests at once.

 

[unnamedmike]

That's another route, but doesn't separate food from water. He has lots of plants. He could do one with bottled and one with tap. Then just one might get better. Though proving soil works might not be what a hydro grower wants.

Edit: I suspect it's feed, and he thinks it's water, so changing both doesn't appeal to me personally. I would want to see each done separately.
I had to line mine up recently for different treatments. I had a new feed. I found it was Ca bought one back, before moving to how much. Though I saw some interesting morphology response to Mg in one strain. Sometimes you just have to treat them all differently, to run many tests at once.

English is not my mother languaje, so I kept my previous post as simple as possible. But yes, of course, more plants can be added, each one with a different variable, for more speed in the diagnosis.

 

[Hookah79]

I forgot this thread, so skimmed through it again.

I don't like the look of the wall or ceiling.
I'm unsure about delivery hoses, but I'm not that interested.
Your tank mixing is the biggest mystery here. I'm not sure if you are weighing the ingredients, or giving them in the right order. Everything points to you using a PPM meter to ration out your bags, and that right there, won't work.

Grab a bottle of ionic and follow the dosing instructions. Feed one at half, one at 100% and one at 150%. Just that one bottle of ionic, and the acid needed to get in range. Dumb this down to the absolute basics. You might want to do a second plats at 100% feed using water brought in. Then you have changed your water, your delivery equipment, your feed levels, your pH and your feed. If the problem is fixed or not, you are at least homing in on if it's the environment or the feed. Splitting the burden of finding this in half.



Alternately, take some of this opps tank to another opp. Feed just one plant at another location, from this locations tank

What do you think is bad about the ceiling and walls?

They’re foam sprayed and walls have mold resistant panels and the contractor added some mold resistant liquid to the paint also.I have frp panel up to 8 feet high inside both rooms.

As far as feeding/mixing nutes
I used the .67 formula with Jacks so 2 grams of calnit divided by 3 grams of Jacks gives me .67
So water comes out at 150 ppm
I add 450 ppm of Jacks =600 ppm
Add 300 ppm of calnit= 900 ppm
Ph down 5.7-5.9
300/450=.67
I added 50-100 ppms of epsom salt after a round or 2 of batches going bad I truly can’t remember.Which would bring it to 950-1000 ppm

Then right around posting this summer of last year I started weighting instead of using the meter
3 grams of Jacks
2 grams of calnit
1 gram epsom salt
1250 ppm
Ph down 5.7-5.9
I understand Jacks has magnesium in part A so could it be that i was giving it too much mag???
When i started having these issues early last year I didn’t give them epsom salt at first…
At previous grows at a different location i use 321 with straight 150 ppm water with no issues

Mixing wise i add Jacks first,epsom 2nd then calnit 3rd in that order and always have been even when measuring by the older ppm meter method.Something to do with cal and mag turning to gypsum if not mixed in the right order.

I also add mr.fulvic at 1 mil a gal at every feed.I always feed every time so i dont make any teas etc.Been doing it for years with no issues whatsoever.

When i switched to Athena and RO recently i use
2 ml cleanse per gal
3 grams core
5 grams grow
Ph up 5.8-6.1
1480-1500 ppms

I will give the ionic bottle a shot but I truly doubt it would make a difference but it wouldn’t hurt to try.

I’ve had plants get neglected before due to work /laziness etc ,but i’ve brought them back in a matter of weeks in worst case scenarios.I just fail to see how every single thing i’ve tried has led out to the same scenario.No body can figure it out.

To me it looks like a calcium issue.
I read that when the tips turn brown and curl it means that the plant is leaching out excess calcium.But at the same time the leaves are showing heat stress when i really don’t have one which could mean that I don’t have enough calcium or it’s locked out.How is that possible idk???.

 

[Three Berries]

CalNit after Epsom, not before is what I was told.

 

[f-e]

Some peeps have been reducing Mg and increasing the calnit, moving away from 321. That seems an LED thing though. I noticed talk of some lady using silicone. I'm glad ti hear you are weighing it now, but this is all much clearer to you than us readers. Hence I really need you to use a known single part feed, so I can be sure of all the fine details like mixing orders and quantities.

Many years ago bad room syndrome was pinpointed as compressed wooden flooring, with the anti-mold agent formaldehyde being the player. So the more I learn about these walls, the less faith I have in them. Taking me back to the idea of moving a plant out, but still feeding it from the common tank. Thus the environment is changed, not the water or feed. Do you have an outside air source to ensure some plants don't get air that been near the walls perhaps?

 

[Hookah79]

Some peeps have been reducing Mg and increasing the calnit, moving away from 321. That seems an LED thing though. I noticed talk of some lady using silicone. I'm glad ti hear you are weighing it now, but this is all much clearer to you than us readers. Hence I really need you to use a known single part feed, so I can be sure of all the fine details like mixing orders and quantities.

Many years ago bad room syndrome was pinpointed as compressed wooden flooring, with the anti-mold agent formaldehyde being the player. So the more I learn about these walls, the less faith I have in them. Taking me back to the idea of moving a plant out, but still feeding it from the common tank. Thus the environment is changed, not the water or feed. Do you have an outside air source to ensure some plants don't get air that been near the walls perhaps?

I do have 8 inch intake/exaust that run on timers.
I had them run once an hr for 15 minutes for days and days before without any improvement.


I do recall moving them in the hallway last yr for a few days under a t5 and they did look like they perked up a bit from what I remember.So i went ahead and upped the temps and ran the dehuys in both rooms just to get the fumes out.I also ran air exchanges solid for 7-10 days.

Say there’s some off gassing shouldn’t it have evaporated by now?.Is there something that can be done like running machines such as air purifiers/ozone generators etc to clean out what’s left?.

 

[mojave green]

An RO system ain’t that much. Better than pulling your hair out. You’re losing the cost of an RO system in product anyway.

 

[mojave green]

I do have 8 inch intake/exaust that run on timers.
I had them run once an hr for 15 minutes for days and days before without any improvement.


I do recall moving them in the hallway last yr for a few days under a t5 and they did look like they perked up a bit from what I remember.So i went ahead and upped the temps and ran the dehuys in both rooms just to get the fumes out.I also ran air exchanges solid for 7-10 days.

Say there’s some off gassing shouldn’t it have evaporated by now?.Is there something that can be done like running machines such as air purifiers/ozone generators etc to clean out what’s left?.

You can run a recirculating carbon filter setup for your air.

 

[Hookah79]

An RO system ain’t that much. Better than pulling your hair out. You’re losing the cost of an RO system in product anyway.

You mean the water bill cost?

You can run a recirculating carbon filter setup for your air.

For VOC? I did run them when i tried cleaning the room for the fumes but I can’t recall running them with the plants.It’s worth a shot.

 

[Creeperpark]

The 150 ppm that comes out of the tap water multiples in the root zone. If you water 10 times it becomes 1500 ppm in the root zone. If you add nutrients to the tap water it becomes even higher and that extra ppm stays in the soil. If you don't start with pure water you can have problems "later" in the grow. I learned a long time ago that if you are going to grow weed, you need to start with pure water and use new soil and a complete fertilizer. You have had this problem for over 10 months and are still using tap water. You have changed the pipes, coated the floor, reworked the ventilation and cooling system, and fumigated or aerated the building but still used tap water.

 

[Creeperpark]

If you don't want to spend the money for a RO system then catch a 45-gallon plastic can full of rainwater under a downspout and add some cal-mag. The rainwater will have a ppm of about 17. You will notice a big change in 20 days of using pure water. .BTW your not the first person I have seen with this problem.

 

[f-e]

I do have 8 inch intake/exaust that run on timers.
I had them run once an hr for 15 minutes for days and days before without any improvement.


I do recall moving them in the hallway last yr for a few days under a t5 and they did look like they perked up a bit from what I remember.So i went ahead and upped the temps and ran the dehuys in both rooms just to get the fumes out.I also ran air exchanges solid for 7-10 days.

Say there’s some off gassing shouldn’t it have evaporated by now?.Is there something that can be done like running machines such as air purifiers/ozone generators etc to clean out what’s left?.

When you moved them to the hall, I guess the lighting was reduced a lot. Making demands on feed much lower. In which case it's inconclusive, but interesting.

With the intake, I'm talking about prepping a separate area, such as a tent, fed with outside air. A totally different environment. Could be a cupboard, or wrap a net frame in polythene and supply air from outside, straight to the plants. The net result is to let no building air near them. As a really rough option, just blow outside air upon one, enveloping it.

The Lady took one and it got better. So the stock is alright. That's key information. Next we need to see if it's feed, or environment. Changing the feed is complex, as there are many variables. Changing the air around them but watering from your tank is easy. They may not like outside air for a different set of reason, but as long as you recognise the change, it's more key info.



They're not unjacketed mh lamps are they? Some mh lamps are for closed fittings. They don't have the outer jacket. Just an arc tube.

 

[Hookah79]

If you don't want to spend the money for a RO system then catch a 45-gallon plastic can full of rainwater under a downspout and add some cal-mag. The rainwater will have a ppm of about 17. You will notice a big change in 20 days of using pure water. .BTW your not the first person I have seen with this problem.

The 150 ppm that comes out of the tap water multiples in the root zone. If you water 10 times it becomes 1500 ppm in the root zone. If you add nutrients to the tap water it becomes even higher and that extra ppm stays in the soil. If you don't start with pure water you can have problems "later" in the grow. I learned a long time ago that if you are going to grow weed, you need to start with pure water and use new soil and a complete fertilizer. You have had this problem for over 10 months and are still using tap water. You have changed the pipes, coated the floor, reworked the ventilation and cooling system, and fumigated or aerated the building but still used tap water.

I ran RO water summer of last year but didn’t notice any improvement.So I assumed there was some type of bacteria or contamination in the piping underground. Fast forward with all the work done and me having used RO again for the last 3 weeks i have yet to see any improvement?.I will start adding a bit of calmag before i add the rest of the nutes going forward besides trying ionic on a few smaller ones.

The starting with 0 ppm theory i dont buy that tbh,i’ve help run 3 spots at once not even using any filters whatsoever with only aerating water over night without any issues.And still do today.The guy next door to me doesn’t strip his water nor does the building down the street from me and they don’t have the issues iam having.I’ve only seen one grow using RO here and that was for a DWC system.

 

[blondie]

I ran RO water summer of last year but didn’t notice any improvement.So I assumed there was some type of bacteria or contamination in the piping underground. Fast forward with all the work done and me having used RO again for the last 3 weeks i have yet to see any improvement?.I will start adding a bit of calmag before i add the rest of the nutes going forward besides trying ionic on a few smaller ones.

The starting with 0 ppm theory i dont buy that tbh,i’ve help run 3 spots at once not even using any filters whatsoever with only aerating water over night without any issues.And still do today.The guy next door to me doesn’t strip his water nor does the building down the street from me and they don’t have the issues iam having.I’ve only seen one grow using RO here and that was for a DWC system.

Think about this scenario. Your building sat idle, did your neighbors or the guy down the street? Point being from the street water line into your building is different than the water line into other buildings. This could be a factor.

I would set up an experiment and use different amount of nutes and different water on a few plants and see which works. I look at your plants and at least to me looks like over fed. I agree with fletch from his post a year or so ago. It doesn’t seem it can hurt to experiment. What is it you haven’t changed yet? Cut back nutes and see..

 

[f-e]

With your neighbours using the water, and your new main making no difference, I think it's safe to say the water angle is exhausted. Yes, perhaps it might be made better, but causing this? It seems practically impossible, but bottled water (from a know good address) could be used on just one plant to answer this more conclusively.

Plant with different feed and the tap water
Plant with different feed and different water bought in.
Plant at different location fed from this bad one.

In a few weeks at least one plant will get better. Telling you where the problem is.

If one doesn't, then you are still using something in common. A procedural breakdown such as jugs/meters/trays

 

[f-e]

Think about this scenario. Your building sat idle, did your neighbors or the guy down the street? Point being from the street water line into your building is different than the water line into other buildings. This could be a factor.

I would set up an experiment and use different amount of nutes and different water on a few plants and see which works. I look at your plants and at least to me looks like over fed. I agree with fletch from his post a year or so ago. It doesn’t seem it can hurt to experiment. What is it you haven’t changed yet? Cut back nutes and see..

He has changed the main from the street to the building now. I'm not sure about within in.

Gotta line them up for every combination you can think of. Less food is certainly one of them. Using a new feed is a must, so different levels of it are a must. So as to find what works the fastest. Presuming something does. Which is why one needs taking out the building (which we know works) but feeding from the tank at the building.

It's pretty much standard elimination. Takes a few weeks, but here a few weeks is nothing


Hookah, where are you based? Can't you get help?

 

[Hookah79]

Think about this scenario. Your building sat idle, did your neighbors or the guy down the street? Point being from the street water line into your building is different than the water line into other buildings. This could be a factor.

I would set up an experiment and use different amount of nutes and different water on a few plants and see which works. I look at your plants and at least to me looks like over fed. I agree with fletch from his post a year or so ago. It doesn’t seem it can hurt to experiment. What is it you haven’t changed yet? Cut back nutes and see..

I had a newer batch of plants vegging (that took another nose dive) while the water line was getting replaced which was a nightmare because it took the guy 3 to 4 weeks to fish the job.

Something i forgot to mention is i filled up tanks of water from the grower next door,i also filled up a few rezes of rain water outside.This was around Oct-Nov of last yr.I used the water from next door first then the rain water after, which overall lasted me til the job was done.BUT they kept getting worse and worse in the process and as the job got completed i started using my own water but they were alrdy bad and didn’t get any better.So i disposed of 70 pots.

If my underground feed from main til meter was bad then replacing it shouldve solved the problem.
We had assumed is an old lead or galvanized pipe but turned out to be copper.
If my city tap water was bad then my neighbor should have been having issues no?

With your neighbours using the water, and your new main making no difference, I think it's safe to say the water angle is exhausted. Yes, perhaps it might be made better, but causing this? It seems practically impossible, but bottled water (from a know good address) could be used on just one plant to answer this more conclusively.

Plant with different feed and the tap water
Plant with different feed and different water bought in.
Plant at different location fed from this bad one.

In a few weeks at least one plant will get better. Telling you where the problem is.

If one doesn't, then you are still using something in common. A procedural breakdown such as jugs/meters/trays

I have replaced rezez ,hoses ,pumps ,air stones ,meter,nutes,medium everything pretty much.The pex plumbing inside I didn’t touch since it was put up when i renovated the building 2 years ago

I also have a tankless water heater that’s connected to my plumbing without a filter installed…Could it be that something was leaching back?? Idk.I have turned the inlet line off 3 weeks ago.

He has changed the main from the street to the building now. I'm not sure about within in.

Gotta line them up for every combination you can think of. Less food is certainly one of them. Using a new feed is a must, so different levels of it are a must. So as to find what works the fastest. Presuming something does. Which is why one needs taking out the building (which we know works) but feeding from the tank at the building.

It's pretty much standard elimination. Takes a few weeks, but here a few weeks is nothing


Hookah, where are you based? Can't you get help?

I am located in the Detroit area ,i have had fellow growers stop by to figure things out but besides suggesting running a a chlorine/RO filters and the basic environment/feed etc they’re baffled as well.

The company that did the water analysis insisted that water was my issue instead of doing a canister air testing.The response i got when they sent me the test results was that it’s based on human consumption and not cannabis even though i explained everything to them and one of their agents stopped by .