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Congress Quietly Passed A Bill Allowing Warrantless Searches of Homes
- Thread starter DocTim420
- Start date
W
Water-
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011...ome-people-to-do-what-they-wanted-to-do”.html
"The Patriot Act was planned before 9/11. Indeed, former Counter Terrorism Czar Richard Clarke told Stanford law professor Lawrence Lessig:
After 9/11 the government drew up the Patriot Act within 20 days and it was passed.
The Patriot Act is huge and I remember someone asking a Justice Department official how did they write such a large statute so quickly, and of course the answer was that it has been sitting in the drawers of the Justice Department for the last 20 years waiting for the event where they would pull it out."
"The Patriot Act was planned before 9/11. Indeed, former Counter Terrorism Czar Richard Clarke told Stanford law professor Lawrence Lessig:
After 9/11 the government drew up the Patriot Act within 20 days and it was passed.
The Patriot Act is huge and I remember someone asking a Justice Department official how did they write such a large statute so quickly, and of course the answer was that it has been sitting in the drawers of the Justice Department for the last 20 years waiting for the event where they would pull it out."
M
moose eater
We worked quite a lot in opposition to the USA PA, achieving the 22nd resolution in the Nation questioning its legitimacy, and the act itself (400+ pages in its final draft, and read by nearly no one who voted on it) was a pasting together of nearly every wish list authority the DoJ and other agencies had wanted for years, but had lacked opportunity to succeed at procuring.
Fear goes a long way toward helping folks to forfeit 'unalienable Rights.'
Fear goes a long way toward helping folks to forfeit 'unalienable Rights.'
M
moose eater
Extra-legal search authorities within specific distances of the many U.S. borders are a reality.
You can find reports on-line from credible sources re. 'inland check-points' set up on highways and back-roads in Arizona, New Mexico and California, (to name a few) based on these 'evolved authorities.'
No BSing.
You can find reports on-line from credible sources re. 'inland check-points' set up on highways and back-roads in Arizona, New Mexico and California, (to name a few) based on these 'evolved authorities.'
No BSing.
Just so you know, this is my backyard and if you are referring to the infamous San Clemente check on Interstate 5...that operation has been going on for at least 30 years (long before the passage of the Patriot Act). San Clemente Checkpoint is a "checkpoint", not a "searchpoint" (requiring a thing called "probable cause" before LEO can search your person and/or vehicle).
Given the option of reading reports online (authored by someone with an agenda who lives far away) or observing things with my eyes in my backyard....I choose the latter.
St. Phatty
Active member
If you're 18 or over, and selling Girl Scout cookies,
I might allow surveillance without a warrant.
I might allow surveillance without a warrant.
M
moose eater
As stated, I was referring to road-blocks across the entire SW, inland from the borders within distance X, on back roads out of small towns all along that border. But the law(s) enabling the road blocks are far from specific to the SW; they apply to any U.S. border. And searches are occurring at these check-points, even if under consent by coercion. A phenomenon that has seen searches and related arrests/convictions over-turned in our State courts in Alaska, but not necessarily elsewhere.
Not related to distance to borders, but my own oldest child has been present during an illegal search of a vehicle, followed by the customary perjury by the officer in court.
There's what the law says, and then there's the reality of how it's enforced by those who carry varying degrees of immunity, and often lie for a living without consequence, despite it being (in my State) a felony for a LEO to commit perjury on an affidavit for a warrant, or in direct testimony from the stand while under oath..
There's what's supposed to be, and what is.
Not related to distance to borders, but my own oldest child has been present during an illegal search of a vehicle, followed by the customary perjury by the officer in court.
There's what the law says, and then there's the reality of how it's enforced by those who carry varying degrees of immunity, and often lie for a living without consequence, despite it being (in my State) a felony for a LEO to commit perjury on an affidavit for a warrant, or in direct testimony from the stand while under oath..
There's what's supposed to be, and what is.
St. Phatty
Active member
There is a law that specifies a distance from the Coast, e.g. 50 miles, where LEO has 'jurisdiction'.
How far are you off the coast? If I understand rr correctly it not just from international borders it from the entire coast. I got a place on the coast in Ventura and if he's right..... mi casa is their casa and that's nearly 200mi.
St. Phatty said if too.lol
Edit: 50 miles gets them in the valley too. All of L.A. actually.lol
M
moose eater
My comment pertained specifically to roadblock checkpoints, not domiciles. Research will show such authority exists.
The concept of consent to search via coercion has been expanded in Alaska State courts to include the differences inherent when, as an example, your neighbor asks to borrow a cup of sugar, versus the implicit (stated or not) intimidation many feel when asked by a cop/badge, "Can I search/You don't mind if we search? etc.
The concept of consent to search via coercion has been expanded in Alaska State courts to include the differences inherent when, as an example, your neighbor asks to borrow a cup of sugar, versus the implicit (stated or not) intimidation many feel when asked by a cop/badge, "Can I search/You don't mind if we search? etc.
After the Moslem terrorists murdered by bomb 193 people riding or near trains in Spain a few years ago they have to be thinking of bombs near the tracks and stations. Should have designated a Federal Judge or two to issue warrants with cause. Hard to believe that congress so easily forgot the 4th Amendment like they did on the 1st and 2nd, what is the matter with these people? Big Government is big trouble just like the framers of the Constitution knew it would be, it always wants more until there isn't any more to get.
Friend of mine worked for the power company in Northern California many years ago. Humboldt, Mendocino, the big grow regions. Trimming back vegetation that grew too close to the power lines. He'd have to trespass through peoples' yards to do it. It was legal and part of his job.
The company's policy was to keep their mouths' shut about what they saw. Otherwise there'd be dead and disappeared power company employees.
The company's policy was to keep their mouths' shut about what they saw. Otherwise there'd be dead and disappeared power company employees.
NO ! You should be concerned with statues and stilettos !!
Don't worry about it, guys. If any transit cops violate people's rights then Trump can pardon them, just like Sheriff Joe...
The language of the bill is overly broad, no doubt. The first warrantless search would likely result in a restraining order against further misconduct. Well, with the exception noted above...
The language of the bill is overly broad, no doubt. The first warrantless search would likely result in a restraining order against further misconduct. Well, with the exception noted above...
Need some cheese with that whine?
Forget the fact that all presidents have done this........
It's like little kids playing...... O yea, well Obama did this. Yea, well Trump did that.......Can you imagine the smiles on the faces of the powers that be when people say this stupid shit?
St. Phatty
Active member
I looked at a fixer-upper in Humboldt.
Nice Home that needed a LOT of fixing on 2 acres.
1 of the acres was all power company right of way.
1/2 the conversation was, what can I grow where ?
Conclusion ... keep the pot near the house, grow the vegy garden around the power poles.
Wait... Obama pardoned fascist wannabees & exalted their virtue? Because he's the real fascist, or what?
As we've seen many times, it's the federal judiciary who end up being the defenders of the Constitution & the Rights of the People. Their last resort for recalcitrant power holders is a writ of contempt against guys like Arpaio. Trump just said no, we don't need that. We don't need no steenking Constitution or separation of powers to "Restore Law & Order". I mean, there's no problem with the cops going out of their way to roust ~30% of the citizens of Arizona because they look like a Mexican, is there?
I now return you to ranting & raving about provisions of a law that likely won't ever be used & probably won't be used more than once because the independent judiciary won't allow more than that.
Don't move next to the metro rail system.....Yeehaw
U
Ununionized
The door is already opened, and has to do with right to inspect a utility.
If the railroad or whatever it is, is deemed a utility or - I can't remember the different ways of phrasing that - it's like if there's land adjacent to a dam, or explosives factory, and there's reason to believe your place has been destabilized, or is being USED to destabilize it - some things, inspectors can simply go, and screw you.
For instance the other day, I had to call the guys over here about a gas leak.
We were out there in some kinda rain storm, miserable as hell even though summer time, at 2:30 am - cause I'd gone outside, to survey the rain: and - just on a whim decided to spray my gas meter's cutoff with a bottle of soapy water. It's an old house... and I'm that kinda guy. I do stuff like that.
Bubbles.
Ok, well.. I call the automated line, and the line says ''we'll have someone out there within - I dunno how long, not long, like an hour.''
Thirty minutes later guy comes up, it's still raining like hell, looks kinda like a younger version of myself, and we're talkin he says 'I have to go onto these properties without any warning or a warrant or permit or anything all the time, you ought to see people freakin' out.''
''Oh?'' says I - but I know a little about this cause I had to work on some exotic stuff, and I had access to places.
He says ''Yeah, you ought to see these pot growers once all the gas gets turned off and I have to go by law to every single house and demand entry to examine all their gas appliances.''
I'm like... Ok. Welcome to a gas line
run to every single house in the the region.
In some places, you have to allow the fire department on your property to make examinations of this and that, like any public place, you can stall em a little but not much. The fire marshal can go get armed cops on the spot.
I think there's also situations where water districts can demand to examine river levees, and that sorta thing.
Sea walls etc... they also sometimes are voted as utilities so they can be inspected on demand maybe... I don't really have evidence of all these examples, I'm just throwing them out there because -
these kinds of laws are prone to lawsuits, and sorta follow the evolution of the times.
so for awhile you'll see people suing over one thing, then another, in efforts to get a law refined some, people will fight about it locally for awhile, then they move on to something else.
So it's not unheard of, it's just kinda unusual.
You can have instances where people lease land for cattle or whatever, or they just own it outright, but there'll be some peak onto which the phone company has microwave equipment.
They can't get through any other way but the one road that goes through your property, several miles of it, blown out partly, with explosives, decades before, when other roads were destroyed elswhere or snowed in, THEN -
and the road can be determined for those people, to be a public easement. I think maybe the term public easement, was what I've been trying to remember. It's another time when people have a right to investigate and examine or at the very least, trespass, and it not be a trespass for them to be there.
If you haven't been familiar with that sorta thing much it's kinda spooky.
If the railroad or whatever it is, is deemed a utility or - I can't remember the different ways of phrasing that - it's like if there's land adjacent to a dam, or explosives factory, and there's reason to believe your place has been destabilized, or is being USED to destabilize it - some things, inspectors can simply go, and screw you.
For instance the other day, I had to call the guys over here about a gas leak.
We were out there in some kinda rain storm, miserable as hell even though summer time, at 2:30 am - cause I'd gone outside, to survey the rain: and - just on a whim decided to spray my gas meter's cutoff with a bottle of soapy water. It's an old house... and I'm that kinda guy. I do stuff like that.
Bubbles.
Ok, well.. I call the automated line, and the line says ''we'll have someone out there within - I dunno how long, not long, like an hour.''
Thirty minutes later guy comes up, it's still raining like hell, looks kinda like a younger version of myself, and we're talkin he says 'I have to go onto these properties without any warning or a warrant or permit or anything all the time, you ought to see people freakin' out.''
''Oh?'' says I - but I know a little about this cause I had to work on some exotic stuff, and I had access to places.
He says ''Yeah, you ought to see these pot growers once all the gas gets turned off and I have to go by law to every single house and demand entry to examine all their gas appliances.''
I'm like... Ok. Welcome to a gas line
run to every single house in the the region.
In some places, you have to allow the fire department on your property to make examinations of this and that, like any public place, you can stall em a little but not much. The fire marshal can go get armed cops on the spot.
I think there's also situations where water districts can demand to examine river levees, and that sorta thing.
Sea walls etc... they also sometimes are voted as utilities so they can be inspected on demand maybe... I don't really have evidence of all these examples, I'm just throwing them out there because -
these kinds of laws are prone to lawsuits, and sorta follow the evolution of the times.
so for awhile you'll see people suing over one thing, then another, in efforts to get a law refined some, people will fight about it locally for awhile, then they move on to something else.
So it's not unheard of, it's just kinda unusual.
You can have instances where people lease land for cattle or whatever, or they just own it outright, but there'll be some peak onto which the phone company has microwave equipment.
They can't get through any other way but the one road that goes through your property, several miles of it, blown out partly, with explosives, decades before, when other roads were destroyed elswhere or snowed in, THEN -
and the road can be determined for those people, to be a public easement. I think maybe the term public easement, was what I've been trying to remember. It's another time when people have a right to investigate and examine or at the very least, trespass, and it not be a trespass for them to be there.
If you haven't been familiar with that sorta thing much it's kinda spooky.
