Confused

[whodi]

My 1st run with coco was excellent using tap water and low ppm's

This 2nd run I've used new coco but same brand.. flushed before putting plants in it.

Plants are about 2 months old in veg under 400 watt MH @ 70 degrees F. I water daily or every other day with 6ml/9ml GH micro/bloom @ around 6 pH - 10% runoff - My tap water is 30ppm and when I add 6ml/9ml micro/bloom it totals to 380ppm

Two different strains. White widow and NL x AK47

WW

NLxAK47

The WW doesnt seem to curl too much but yo ucan see the burnt tips... and the NL x AK47 is undercurling a lot but the tips don't look as burnned although they are crispy on the tips..

WHat could be causing this? Maybe my pH has been abnormal for a whiel and I haven't realized it? Or temps aren't consistent enough? What could cause such a lockout and burn my plants if my nutrient solution is only 380ppm?

 

[10k]

have you checked your meter calibration lately and are you sure you rinsed out the coco thoroughly ?

Those sure look fried imho.

 

[Kinderfeld]

have you checked your meter calibration lately and are you sure you rinsed out the coco thoroughly ?

Those sure look fried imho.

Yea I would say fried but I don't know coco...what are you using to measure the ph and ppms, how often do you check?

 

[whodi]

Just got a brand new TDS meter and made sure it was calibrated and all is well... so it can't be that i'm using too much nutes; although they are showing signs of being fried... They are in 5 gallon pots and abut 4 foot tall

I measure pH with the drop kit.

THe only thing I can think of is that i went a while without knowing what my pH was and thinking that it was just fine. But in reality it was probably 7.0 or that my night temps got too low.

It's really strange though. It seems like my plants are absorbing and holding onto nitrogen more then it should.. i'm only using 1tsp.. using h3ads formula for coco. 6ml micro and 9ml bloom (1 tsp micro, 2 tsp bloom)

All I can do is all I can do from this point on, so any recommendations?

Should i just water with pH adjsuted water for a while or should I be using only my bloom nutrients with no nitrogen, or should I be using half strength micro/bloom.. or half micro and full bloom...

 

[Weedhound]

I dont use coco myself.....but I wonder about two things. Your tap water at ppm30 doesn't sound like it has enough calciium/magnesium etc......although I'm not at all sure that's your problem. If your ph is off....it's off pretty good. Those are REALLY curled.

When was the last time you flushed your pots with ph correct water? I'm concerned about salt/fert buildup (again....a guess/coco not my thing) but I also wonder about your all around root health. The eagle's claw plants almost look like a disease/root rot/wilt thing to me. They just look bad all around.

While my first thought is burn I'm honestly not sure that it is. It could to be either a ph issue or something to with your coco and calcium content.....or some of both.

So my guesses would be ph.......but it's kind of hard to overfert if you are locking nutes out with improper ph but it CAN cause some bizarre symptoms. Runoff of 7 seems a bit high which would burn a hydro plant but again....coco/just not sure. Be sure to check ph going both into the pot and the runoff as well.

Root disease.....along the line of pythium or fusarium.

Massive overnute or fert/salt buildup.

All guesses at this point. Good luck.

 

[Weedhound]

Define low temps......I just caught that at the end of your post. Low temps will indeed cause some darn funky symptoms in cannabis plants .......how low is yours?

 

[whodi]

I'm not really sure the night temps because the lights are only off for 4 hous and i've used this room with a few runs and never had a temp prob too much. Therefore I haven't monitored it.

However it has been unusually cold... then back to warm this season. I'm guessing the night temps have gotten as low as 50-60 and possibly even below 50 F. a couple of times.

This is all most likely my fault for half assing it so no excuses.

I just watered with pH adjsuted water only a few min ago.

As far as the calcium goes.. I've been using the same tap water and never had any cal/mag probs in the past.

My guess is had a bad run with messed up pH or the low temps messed'em up, or soem kind of root disease or something.

 

[Weedhound]

I personally worry at anything below 60F MAX.....that honestly could be your problem right there. I had some stuff in hydro that I let get down to 57F at night and found that to be too cold for my liking.....ended up suffering both in root health and in yield. I would try to get your night temps up for sure if they are that low.

 

[libby]

My fre1nd has been a 46 and never seen 1t that bad, get em r1nsed, now't to lose.

 

[Pirate]

I use coco.

You have fried plants. Overfed. The leaf tips burnt are from overfeeding and the leaves that are curled down like a "Rams Horn" is a sure sign of N overdose. You probably have a Lockout going on as well. There are many issues with these and the only way to fix it is to flush it out.

Where did you get your formula from? (GH 6M/9B)? (People keep trying to reinvent the Lucas Formula) It was fine the way it was)

I use the original formula.........GH-5M//10B for mine and it sounds like we have the same set up. The only difference is my tap is 135/145 PPMs. I also run 400 watts of light (x2=800 total for moms) and grow in coco for my mothers.

If I were you, I would flush it out today. Use GH Flora Kleen at 1.5mills per gallon (or Clear-ex). Flush it for 2 days with that formula / PH adjusted. Then feed strait PH adjusted water for 3 days to a week before re-feeding at a PPM level of 500 or less and do not increase that dose until you see new green healthy growth. (Take 2 pills and call me in the morning)

TRY......just try it one time..(for one month)......feeding with a 5M/10B ratio with a PH of 6.0. (My Nutrient PPMs = 700 to 800 with the 5/10 ratio in veg). I feed one time per day at lights on. There is not one brown leaf or burnt tip in my garden (not one, no joke) so I know that formula works in coco. I have plants that are 3 weeks from seed and plants that are over 1 year from seed. All with the same green lushiness and using the same formula no matter the age.

You need to get your nighttime temperatures up to at least 65*F. Closer to 70 would be better.Lower temperatures will create a lockout and prevent nutrient uptake.

I would not trust the PH testing drops. I tested them and the strips against several electronic meters and the drops where off or not accurate enough every single time. I suggest you drop the $$s for a real meter. 1 point in PH can make all the difference in the world. (yeah........growing indoors cost money. Lots of it) (I'm in for over 15k, not including the monthly running costs)

Here is a rule to live by: Learn it, Use it, It will save yur ass every time.
When in doubt, flush it out.

Nothing personal to other posters but...........adding anything at this point will make things worse. its not a calcium or magnesium problem. Its overdose and lockout of everything probably due to PH being off, overfeeding, wrong nutrient ratios or all the above.

It may take a couple to a few weeks for the recovery. They are pretty burnt. But they will recover. At this point.........you must be patient.

Edit: I think I see signs of a thrips problem as well. Look at your leaves that have shiny spots or shiny trails. Use a magnifying glass to look under the leaves with these shiny spots. Look for tiny crawling green bugs (larvae). Do ya have flying bugs in the room? If so, the solution is to Bomb it with Dr. Doom., wait ten days & bomb it again. Thrips will kill your plants by sucking the chlorophyll right out of em.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

too much N, too much nutes, and looks like your ph is off. those plants in the back are a reveg or what? all those lower branch leaves are dead did that just happen?

 

[Dee9]

I agree with pirate

My plants had similar symptoms when I started out with coco and did not flush.

Now I flush routinely once a month to prevent salt build ups.

 

[whodi]

I don't see how i'm overfeeding.. 6/9 formula is low ppm. You supposed to water coco daily as I do. Many people have had success with 6/9 for coco.. and 5/10 is pretty much the same. A stated above I use the H3ad formula, it's stickied in the coco forum

It's not bugs.. those spots are common when your plants are showing signs of overfert from my research.

I beleive it was due to pH and/or temperature issues that caused the lockout or something...

For the 1st month I used an old ass bottle of foxfarm grow big I had lying around that I was unaware that it was bad for my plants. THat's when things were getting bad. I flushed for a while but I think my damn pH was too high and all along i thought it was fine. Ever since then it hasn't fully recovered.

I'll jsut pH flush them and get temps consistent then see how things go.

 

[whodi]

too much N, too much nutes, and looks like your ph is off. those plants in the back are a reveg or what? all those lower branch leaves are dead did that just happen?

Na. no reveg. There are some dead parts but not all is dead.. I've had a problem for a good month now and i've been trying to fix it on my own.

It's humbling but i'm learning a lot with this coco stuff

 

[Pirate]

I don't see how i'm overfeeding.. 6/9 formula is low ppm. You supposed to water coco daily as I do. Many people have had success with 6/9 for coco.. and 5/10 is pretty much the same. A stated above I use the H3ad formula, it's stickied in the coco forum

It's not bugs.. those spots are common when your plants are showing signs of overfert from my research.

I beleive it was due to pH and/or temperature issues that caused the lockout or something...

For the 1st month I used an old ass bottle of foxfarm grow big I had lying around that I was unaware that it was bad for my plants. THat's when things were getting bad. I flushed for a while but I think my damn pH was too high and all along i thought it was fine. Ever since then it hasn't fully recovered.

I'll jsut pH flush them and get temps consistent then see how things go.

Well it might be a low PPM but it could be the wrong RATIO of nutrient (micro/ bloom)
If it started when you used the FF then chances are that was PART of the problem. As far as PH and Temp? Yup. all of the above.

I promise you..........follow my recipe above and you will get great results. Ask yourself this question: What is it about COCO that requires a deviation from the normal Lucas formula? (coco is inert by the way)

Anyway, Just my 2 cents worth.

Good Luck with it.

 

[10k]

Just for a little clarification on something you mentioned..

you said in post # 4

It's really strange though. It seems like my plants are absorbing and holding onto nitrogen more then it should.. i'm only using 1tsp.. using h3ads formula for coco. 6ml micro and 9ml bloom (1 tsp micro, 2 tsp bloom)

FYI a single teaspoon is 5 ml NOT 6ml

I agree fully with pirate in this thread.

And also wonder how you are going about the mixing procedure for the nutes into the water.
Improper nute mixing can and often does make for a really bad final mix.
ie: when people add concentrates together in a mixing cup before adding them to the water all hell breaks loose as several elements fall out of solution and become locked out or toxic. Same thing happens (to a lesser extent) when people pour the micro concentrate into the water that already has the grow or bloom mixed in the water. The micro needs to go into the water first ALWAYS. And it is best to set aside some of the straight res final water to dilute the other components before they are added to the mixing res. Prior dilution of the concentrate nutes is a MUST for folks who are topping up or modifying an existing res mix btw, or the res npk wont be exactly what you intended.

 

[Weedhound]

And now I will say:

Sorry everyone, I'm going with cold temps. I think he froze them. And I disagree that the ONLY thing that can cause "rams horn" is N overdose.

Have a good one.

 

[theHIGHlander]

i will back Pirate up on this 1..

you ph is way to high you want at 6.0/ 6.5.
flush the hell out of them with ph ajusted water (6.0/6.5) .5ltr pot = 15ltr water 10ltr pot =30ltr water ect ect ect..

haveing you PH at 7 is on borderline lockout in soilless mix so it cant be to much N...its nothing to do with the cold,,my room gets as low as 47/50 lights off (i try not to let its get that cold though)and all it does is bring out redish/purpleish colours on some strains.

its all about the PH in coco, get that sorted ,give a good flush, start again with your feeds (half strenth)...check the ph after youve added you nutes to your water ,as said aim for 6.0/6.5. and thay should come good

keep it green
highlander

 

[whodi]

Well techinically 6ml is 1.2 tsp but I round it off to 1 tsp so i'm actually using 5/10 formula I suppose.

I don't always put micro in first. Sometiems micro, then bloom .. and sometiems bloom then micro. Didn't think it mattered. I then pH the water if need but usually don't have to adjsut it after the nutes are added to the water. I fill 1 gallon jugs with water by the way. no res. all hand watered.

I went 2-3 weeks with watering straight tap that i thought was 6 pH but in reality it was around 7. That could of been the problem

However, when the plants medium gets too cold it doesn't uptake water and nutrients as much, from what i hear. In my case I been watering every day when my plants aren't uptaking as much therefore I have a bunch of water/nutes jsut sitting in the medium.. if that's the case.

i respect all yalls opinions ands appreciate them. I'm sure the problem is a combination of all posted.

 

[Weedhound]

and your wet cold soil STAYS wetter longer. But I certainly am NO coco expert so as I say....this is only my guess and the others who answered DO have experience in coco so I'm not trying to diss anyone. I could be wrong......I am.....alot.

That's just how they look to me though.

Good luck!