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Coffeeshops and the terrible public smoking ban.
- Thread starter Farmer John
- Start date
Wacky Tobacky
Active member
haha! So True...... i smoked for 8 or 9 years and im glad im done with it.
ok but back on topic! tobacco and cannabis is two totally diferent things. tobacco is basicly an addictive poison, weed just gets you high. ya ya ya smoke is bad for you but atleast you cant get cancer from cannabis smoke. i highly doubt that this ban will have any impact on the cannabis use over there other then poeple having to go outside the coffeeshops to smoke thier cigs. just think about it...... how many people does weed kill a year..... how many does tobacco?.............
No that we got to this passive smoking thing, I think its the least problem if you think about all the shit in the air we breathe unless you live somewhere in Papua-New Guinea or somewhere like that then I would understand but goddamn think about for example all the shit that cars put in the air not to even mention large power/nuclear plants/papermills etcetc? And why cant you get cancer of cannabis smoke? I bet theres a lot of carcinogenes in cannabis smoke too, you get carcinogens all over your food when you bbq it.
Wacky Tobacky
Active member
i believe there was some research done by people that were trying to make cannabis look bad by doing tests and stuff to prove that cannabis smoke is worse for you then cigs but in the end there findings were that for some reason that the smoke from the cannabis kills certain cells that eventually form into cancerous cells so you cant get cancer from cannabis smoke. i saw this on CNN like a yr ago.
Breezy420
Member
FJ I understand where you're going with the "other stuff pollutes the air as well" thing, however we're not trapped inside a small room with the smoke stacks of a paper mill, and we sure as shit don't have running cars inside bars and other small establishments to pollute the air. Smoking inside puts others at risk while having the ban on smoking only slightly inconveniences a smokers time having to go outside the establishment. I never understood why it took this long for this to happen after the evidence came back on second hand smoke.
Good read. http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/2/1/21
Ok so theyre not equally carcinogenic but anyway it is clearly stated there in the article that also cannabis smoke causes cancer etetc there you all can read it now lol
so back to subject, anyone from netherlands that follows the news?
Ok so theyre not equally carcinogenic but anyway it is clearly stated there in the article that also cannabis smoke causes cancer etetc there you all can read it now lol
so back to subject, anyone from netherlands that follows the news?
Wacky Tobacky
Active member
hmm how about this from webmd http://www.webmd.com/lung-cancer/news/20060523/pot-smoking-not-linked-to-lung-cancer
Pot Smoking Not Linked to Lung Cancer
Study Shows No Increased Risk for Even the Heaviest Marijuana Smokers
By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Medical News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
May 23, 2006 -- People who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk for developing lung cancerlung cancer, new research suggests.
While a clear increase in cancercancer risk was seen among cigarette smokers in the study, no such association was seen for regular cannabis users.
Even very heavy, long-term marijuana users who had smoked more than 22,000 joints over a lifetime seemed to have no greater risk than infrequent marijuana users or nonusers.
The findings surprised the study’s researchers, who expected to see an increase in cancer among people who smoked marijuana regularly in their youth.
“We know that there are as many or more carcinogens and co-carcinogens in marijuana smoke as in cigarettes,” researcher Donald Tashkin, MD, of UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine tells WebMD. “But we did not find any evidence for an increase in cancer risk for even heavy marijuana smoking.” Carcinogens are substances that cause cancer.
Tashkin presented the findings today at The American Thoracic Society’s 102nd International Conference, held in San Diego.Boomers Reaching Cancer Age
The study population was limited to people who were younger than 60 because people older than that would probably not have used marijuana in their teens and early adult years.
“People who may have smoked marijuana in their youth are just now getting to the age when cancers are being seen,” Tashkin says.
A total of 611 lung cancer patients living in Los Angeles County, and 601 patients with other cancers of the head and neck were compared with 1,040 people without cancer matched for age, sex, and the neighborhood they lived in.
All the participants were asked about lifetime use of marijuana, tobacco, and alcohol, as well as other drugs, their diets, occupation, family history of lung cancer, and socioeconomic status.
The heaviest marijuana users in the study had smoked more than 22,000 joints, while moderately heavy smokers had smoked between 11,000 and 22,000 joints.
While two-pack-a-day or more cigarette smokers were found to have a 20-fold increase in lung cancer risk, no elevation in risk was seen for even the very heaviest marijuana smokers.
The more tobacco a person smoked, the greater their risk of developing lung cancer and other cancers of the head and neck. But people who smoked more marijuana were not at increased risk compared with people who smoked less and people who didn’t smoke at all.
The THC Connection
Studies suggest that marijuana smoke contains 50% higher concentrations of chemicals linked to lung cancerlung cancer than cigarette smoke. Marijuana smokers also tend to inhale deeper than cigarette smokers and hold the inhaled smoke in their lungs longer.
So why isn’t smoking marijuana as dangerous as smoking cigarettes in terms of cancercancer risk?
The answer isn’t clear, but the experts say it might have something to do with tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, which is a chemical found in marijuana smoke.
Cellular studies and even some studies in animal models suggest that THC has antitumor properties, either by encouraging the death of genetically damaged cells that can become cancerous or by restricting the development of the blood supply that feeds tumors, Tashkin tells WebMD.
In a review of the research published last fall, University of Colorado molecular biologist Robert Melamede, PhD, concluded that the THC in cannabis seems to lessen the tumor-promoting properties of marijuana smoke.
The nicotine in tobacco has been shown to inhibit the destruction of cancer-causing cells, Melamede tells WebMD. THC does not appear to do this and may even do the opposite.
While there was a suggestion in the newly reported study that smoking marijuana is weakly protective against lung cancer, Tashkin says the very weak association was probably due to chance.
Cancer risk among cigarette smokers was not influenced by whether or not they also smoked marijuana.
“We saw no interaction between marijuana and tobacco, and we certainly would not recommend that people smoke marijuana to protect themselves against cancer,” he says.
Pot Smoking Not Linked to Lung Cancer
Study Shows No Increased Risk for Even the Heaviest Marijuana Smokers
By Salynn Boyles
WebMD Medical News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD
May 23, 2006 -- People who smoke marijuana do not appear to be at increased risk for developing lung cancerlung cancer, new research suggests.
While a clear increase in cancercancer risk was seen among cigarette smokers in the study, no such association was seen for regular cannabis users.
Even very heavy, long-term marijuana users who had smoked more than 22,000 joints over a lifetime seemed to have no greater risk than infrequent marijuana users or nonusers.
The findings surprised the study’s researchers, who expected to see an increase in cancer among people who smoked marijuana regularly in their youth.
“We know that there are as many or more carcinogens and co-carcinogens in marijuana smoke as in cigarettes,” researcher Donald Tashkin, MD, of UCLA’s David Geffen School of Medicine tells WebMD. “But we did not find any evidence for an increase in cancer risk for even heavy marijuana smoking.” Carcinogens are substances that cause cancer.
Tashkin presented the findings today at The American Thoracic Society’s 102nd International Conference, held in San Diego.Boomers Reaching Cancer Age
The study population was limited to people who were younger than 60 because people older than that would probably not have used marijuana in their teens and early adult years.
“People who may have smoked marijuana in their youth are just now getting to the age when cancers are being seen,” Tashkin says.
A total of 611 lung cancer patients living in Los Angeles County, and 601 patients with other cancers of the head and neck were compared with 1,040 people without cancer matched for age, sex, and the neighborhood they lived in.
All the participants were asked about lifetime use of marijuana, tobacco, and alcohol, as well as other drugs, their diets, occupation, family history of lung cancer, and socioeconomic status.
The heaviest marijuana users in the study had smoked more than 22,000 joints, while moderately heavy smokers had smoked between 11,000 and 22,000 joints.
While two-pack-a-day or more cigarette smokers were found to have a 20-fold increase in lung cancer risk, no elevation in risk was seen for even the very heaviest marijuana smokers.
The more tobacco a person smoked, the greater their risk of developing lung cancer and other cancers of the head and neck. But people who smoked more marijuana were not at increased risk compared with people who smoked less and people who didn’t smoke at all.
The THC Connection
Studies suggest that marijuana smoke contains 50% higher concentrations of chemicals linked to lung cancerlung cancer than cigarette smoke. Marijuana smokers also tend to inhale deeper than cigarette smokers and hold the inhaled smoke in their lungs longer.
So why isn’t smoking marijuana as dangerous as smoking cigarettes in terms of cancercancer risk?
The answer isn’t clear, but the experts say it might have something to do with tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, which is a chemical found in marijuana smoke.
Cellular studies and even some studies in animal models suggest that THC has antitumor properties, either by encouraging the death of genetically damaged cells that can become cancerous or by restricting the development of the blood supply that feeds tumors, Tashkin tells WebMD.
In a review of the research published last fall, University of Colorado molecular biologist Robert Melamede, PhD, concluded that the THC in cannabis seems to lessen the tumor-promoting properties of marijuana smoke.
The nicotine in tobacco has been shown to inhibit the destruction of cancer-causing cells, Melamede tells WebMD. THC does not appear to do this and may even do the opposite.
While there was a suggestion in the newly reported study that smoking marijuana is weakly protective against lung cancer, Tashkin says the very weak association was probably due to chance.
Cancer risk among cigarette smokers was not influenced by whether or not they also smoked marijuana.
“We saw no interaction between marijuana and tobacco, and we certainly would not recommend that people smoke marijuana to protect themselves against cancer,” he says.
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Im not talking about lung cancer here, but other health problems that any smoke and carcinogenes cause..
I dont know if youve seen it yet, but i found this around here
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutch smoking ban will come into force in July next year for all restaurants and cafes -- including coffee shops where cannabis is the top attraction, the government decided on Friday.
"Coffee shops will be treated in the same manner as other catering businesses. They will be smoke-free," Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende told NOS television.
"It would have been wrong to move towards a smoke-free catering industry and then make an exception for coffee shops. People would not have understood that."
Establishments will not in fact have to be completely smoke-free. Proprietors will be allowed to set up a separate room or glass partition behind which people can smoke, but customers will not be served there to protect staff.
"Employees should not have to work in an environment were they are constantly exposed to the harmful effects of smoking," Balkenende said after the cabinet's decision on Friday.
Amsterdam's renowned coffee shops, where marijuana can be smoked openly in a relaxed atmosphere, are one of the city's big draws for tourists.
Coffee shop owners argue that the ban only applies to tobacco and was unlikely to hit them hard.
What has been agreed upon is this: Coffeeshops will be able to allow smoking in a seperate enclosed area. The seperate enclosed area shall not include where the weed or the drinks are sold. So there will be shops with smoking. You will get your weed and drink and go into a seperate area to smoke.
AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutch smoking ban will come into force in July next year for all restaurants and cafes -- including coffee shops where cannabis is the top attraction, the government decided on Friday.
"Coffee shops will be treated in the same manner as other catering businesses. They will be smoke-free," Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende told NOS television.
"It would have been wrong to move towards a smoke-free catering industry and then make an exception for coffee shops. People would not have understood that."
Establishments will not in fact have to be completely smoke-free. Proprietors will be allowed to set up a separate room or glass partition behind which people can smoke, but customers will not be served there to protect staff.
"Employees should not have to work in an environment were they are constantly exposed to the harmful effects of smoking," Balkenende said after the cabinet's decision on Friday.
Amsterdam's renowned coffee shops, where marijuana can be smoked openly in a relaxed atmosphere, are one of the city's big draws for tourists.
Coffee shop owners argue that the ban only applies to tobacco and was unlikely to hit them hard.
What has been agreed upon is this: Coffeeshops will be able to allow smoking in a seperate enclosed area. The seperate enclosed area shall not include where the weed or the drinks are sold. So there will be shops with smoking. You will get your weed and drink and go into a seperate area to smoke.
milehigh
Member
No worries stoners.
No worries stoners.
Smoking in coffee shops will be allowed for now. TODAY::
Wednesday 04 July 2007
Health minister Ab Klink announced late last night in parliament that coffee shops, where cannabis can be sold legally, will not be threatened by the smoking ban which takes effect on July 1 2008, the Volkskrant reports on Wednesday.
'If we want to stop our policy of toleration, we should just do so, and not use the ban as an excuse,' he told MPs. However, despite the urging of Labour, centre-left D66 and the Green Left party, coffee shops will not be entirely exempt from the ban.
Klink insists that the counters where cannabis is sold must be smoke free. But as long as they are divided from the rest of the room, smoking on the premises will be allowed.
No worries stoners.
Smoking in coffee shops will be allowed for now. TODAY::
Wednesday 04 July 2007
Health minister Ab Klink announced late last night in parliament that coffee shops, where cannabis can be sold legally, will not be threatened by the smoking ban which takes effect on July 1 2008, the Volkskrant reports on Wednesday.
'If we want to stop our policy of toleration, we should just do so, and not use the ban as an excuse,' he told MPs. However, despite the urging of Labour, centre-left D66 and the Green Left party, coffee shops will not be entirely exempt from the ban.
Klink insists that the counters where cannabis is sold must be smoke free. But as long as they are divided from the rest of the room, smoking on the premises will be allowed.
prepress420
Member
"Coffeeshops not threatened by ban"
4 July 2007
THE HAGUE – The continued existence of coffeeshops is not under threat from the smoking ban to take effect in the hospitality industry on 1 July 2008, Public Health Minister Ab Klink told Parliament on Tuesday. "If we want to get rid of the policy of tolerance towards soft drugs then we should do that directly, not by means of the smoking ban." The Volkskrant reports.
Labour PvdA, Democrats D66 and green-left GroenLinks are urging that coffeeshops be exempted from the smoking ban. "We have chosen this soft drugs policy, and that is why smoking should remain permitted in coffeeshops," said PvdA MP Bouwmeester. Van Gent (GroenLinks): "A coffeeshop where you are not allowed to smoke is like swimming pool where you're not allowed to swim."
No exception will be made for coffeeshops, Klink said. The same rules will apply as for other hospitality sector venues. Businesses may set up a separate smoking area as long as it is screened off from the rest of the establishment and service is not provided in the area.
Klink is not setting any requirements for size or ventilation. He says he can imagine that most coffeeshops will simply screen off the sales point so that the larger area of the shop becomes a smoking room.
Bouwmeester was pleased with the minister's answer. "I was worried that coffeeshops would just turn into a booth to sell their wares, but it turns out there is no reason to worry about that."
Only the Freedom Party PVV and Liberal VVD are opposed to the smoking ban now. Schippers (VVD) says that ventilation systems can offer adequate protection against harmful smoke. Klink responded however that all studies have shown that these are not effective enough.
The Christian Democrat CDA wants the minister to look into the possibility of fining smokers. The ChristenUnie is the only other party that supports this request. Klink's proposal only provides for the business owner to be fined.
Smokers will also be offered a course to kick the habit, which will most likely be covered by insurance in future. Klink said he wants these courses to be included in the basic insurance package.
[Copyright Expatica News 2007]
Subject: Dutch news
4 July 2007
THE HAGUE – The continued existence of coffeeshops is not under threat from the smoking ban to take effect in the hospitality industry on 1 July 2008, Public Health Minister Ab Klink told Parliament on Tuesday. "If we want to get rid of the policy of tolerance towards soft drugs then we should do that directly, not by means of the smoking ban." The Volkskrant reports.
Labour PvdA, Democrats D66 and green-left GroenLinks are urging that coffeeshops be exempted from the smoking ban. "We have chosen this soft drugs policy, and that is why smoking should remain permitted in coffeeshops," said PvdA MP Bouwmeester. Van Gent (GroenLinks): "A coffeeshop where you are not allowed to smoke is like swimming pool where you're not allowed to swim."
No exception will be made for coffeeshops, Klink said. The same rules will apply as for other hospitality sector venues. Businesses may set up a separate smoking area as long as it is screened off from the rest of the establishment and service is not provided in the area.
Klink is not setting any requirements for size or ventilation. He says he can imagine that most coffeeshops will simply screen off the sales point so that the larger area of the shop becomes a smoking room.
Bouwmeester was pleased with the minister's answer. "I was worried that coffeeshops would just turn into a booth to sell their wares, but it turns out there is no reason to worry about that."
Only the Freedom Party PVV and Liberal VVD are opposed to the smoking ban now. Schippers (VVD) says that ventilation systems can offer adequate protection against harmful smoke. Klink responded however that all studies have shown that these are not effective enough.
The Christian Democrat CDA wants the minister to look into the possibility of fining smokers. The ChristenUnie is the only other party that supports this request. Klink's proposal only provides for the business owner to be fined.
Smokers will also be offered a course to kick the habit, which will most likely be covered by insurance in future. Klink said he wants these courses to be included in the basic insurance package.
[Copyright Expatica News 2007]
Subject: Dutch news
HashishinReidi
Active member
I was just going to post that and u beat me to it lol anyways its great news all the same .Good to hear the Dutch still have there senses.
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Yellowmoon
Active member
This is great news. The whole coffeeshop culture could have been destroyed if the customers were asked to go into boxes to smoke. So it looks liek the city of many sins is still the pilgrimage city to me. 
I hope I can scrape together the money to go in '07. These holidays tend to become immemorial. 
I hope I can scrape together the money to go in '07. These holidays tend to become immemorial. 
Rosy Cheeks said:
Oh yea, u'd think so. But now you get all the smells that tobacco kept in check. Specially the shitty bars.. BO, piss, cheap perfumes.. Pretty much anything that goes with drunk ppl. Compared to that, fuckin cig smoke was heavenly.
And is 2nd hand smoke really the worst thing that can happen during a night out in da bars. Think about it, most guys i know get drunk and horny and try to fuck any chick that they see, while drinkin shit i wouldnt even put in my gas tank..
They put up the law and said the peeps working in the bars should have a healthy enviroement to work like other peeps, but there's just some shit taht come with any given job. You dont see zoo keepers pluggin teeth outta lions to keep their employes safe. Nor do ya see roofers on only one storie high buildings coz anything higher would kill em, if they happen to fall.
Furthermore, who gives a fuck about a waitress health?
If they wanna improve their life and get outta those shitholes they work in, serving poison to their customers, they should up and quit.
Go work in a mickey dees or something if 2nd hand smoke is really a problem.
Maybe go to school and get a real fuckin job.
The socialist states here in scandinavia just take this shit too far.
Not to mention, they didnt think it thru nor were they prepared for the switch. Now you have peeps going outside to drink, but you cant take yer drink outdoor, so you must leave em unattended. That's great news, if u'r a date raper or sumtin.
Also brings up issues with ppl going out for a smoke and then trying to get back in. Had a pal who had his jacket and wallet and ID in the coat room or whatever u call it.. The door monkeys wanted to ID him, and as he said he's allready been in and his ID is in the bar, the fuckers told him that they dont remember him and wont let him in without the ID. Well after 30 mins of persuation and gathering guite a queue, the morons finally let him in to coat room to show the freakin ID.
The bar owners didnt even put ashtrays on the sidewalk, so 30 mins after the law kicked in, the street was covered in cig buds.. Not to mention the drunk fights that broke out hehe..
I'm for a ban too, but then it should be a total ban, no smokin, no selling, no importing what so ever, what we got now is a freakin joke and nothing else.
WWM said:
Thank you!
Thank you!
Great post.
Thank you!
prepress420 said:
Great post.
Iritree thanks for the neg rep but I think you didnt understand that I dont compare the two, just that smoking either of these substances isnt very healthy, and there is some research done, someone posted that link here.
Well said mate.
