coco+wick+gh flora nova=never dump run-off|pdg’s imaginary/enjoyable garden

[Strangely]

Hey Mediscrogs, get a wick in there next time if you're looking to stretch watering out to every 5 days or so. Get reusing weaker nutes in a Rez see how it goes and come back and let us know. I can see plenty of good points with this method and intend to give it a whirl as soon as I can. Good luck dude!

 

[MediScrogs]

Strangely, Mistress, thanks for the input.

I suspect ph is drifting too low, there is also some evidence of phosphorus deficiency, that could happen at low ph from what I've read. I'll start mixing with less vinegar and see how they respond.

I'll think about wicks for the next generation....

Looking at going to 1000W + 600w, rather than adding a 400. dimmable would be nice and flexible. Looking at cost issues, trying to imagine the benefit. Room is running at 69-70 degrees right now, winter is coming. Extra heat shouldn't be a problem and I probably need all the light in 24 sq ft anyways.

Also to help compensate for the cooltube, which is not real efficient of course, although the jumbo external reflector on it is probably better than standard. I need a dehuey as well, I'm running 70 % rh now. With the cooler temps, maybe this is why the plants aren't thirstier.

I'll probably add the dehuey first and see how the temps run with that and the 400. If there is still room to grow, I'll put the 400 in the veg tent and upgrade the intensity. Gosh, I just wince at the thought of depriving my girls, you know?

I'm sure it will all work out. We'll see how things shape up next week. Thanks guys!

kind regards, Medi

 

[*mistress*]

dryz

 

[MediScrogs]

Dryz hmm, I was wondering how effective those might be. Would save on power cost over time.

How often do the crystals need replacement?

My room is about 7 by 13. The air recirculates in there so the humidity will be in there. I vent it into the house occasionally to enjoy all the nice warm oxygen.

In your imagination, would this be a more efficient solution?

 

[*mistress*]

no.
not efficient solution for that size room.
venting into house 24.7 may be .
or ac. or dehumidifer. or both...depends on #/size of plants.
...that must be worked out by gardener. continuous airflow may accomplish same.

this may help give raw data on rh & air flow in garden. posted data in there. too much to re-post...

RH importance
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112589

Air exchange in the grow room
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=147852

& this may also be helpful:

Ventilation 101
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112862

that being linked... if your plants are healthy & are loved/enjoyed, would not alter anything due to posts read on internet. kiss is kiss. there are gardeners that seek/sought 70% rh... mainly kbs/tree gardeners... but plants are adaptive creatures & may be ok @ 70% rh in that environment.

enjoy your garden!

 

[MediScrogs]

Thanks, yeah that, it's a very important parameter here indoors.

 

[turbolaser4528]

thread subscribed, adopting this method for a vert. grow, great idea, thank you.

one question: is there any way to substitute the h202 for something else to get the same effect?

I ask because I would rather avoid potentially harming micro-herd, and have little exp. with said item. whats your recommendation on the type/strength (%) h202 if its use is unavoidable? thnx!


enjoy YOUR garden

 

[barnyard08]

I've used this method and I dont use h2o2 and havent had any issuses and im growing vert its great with great results.

 

[turbolaser4528]

I've used this method and I dont use h2o2 and havent had any issuses and im growing vert its great with great results.

awesome, are you using the 4gal bucket inside of the 5 gal? any pics?

im guessing there is sufficient oxygenation without h202 or an air pump? thnx

 

[*mistress*]

thread subscribed, adopting this method for a vert. grow, great idea, thank you.

one question: is there any way to substitute the h202 for something else to get the same effect?

I ask because I would rather avoid potentially harming micro-herd, and have little exp. with said item. whats your recommendation on the type/strength (%) h202 if its use is unavoidable? thnx!


enjoy YOUR garden

h202 is to maintain a relatively sterile root environment & to promote aerobic activity...
h202 does not inhibit or kill 'microherd'... most of the microbes, etc that cause issues are anaerobic, which means the oxygenation of h202 will hurt them, not the aerobic microbes...

either way, debatable whether myco (adding &/or attempting to maintain) is viable...

that being said, some type of weekly maintentance should be done on the water/solution that sits in external basin... that is where the root fungus gnats & other creatures may develop...

application depends on goal...

best is to use 27-35% h202, diluted by 3-5 ml of the highly concentrated h202 in 1 gal water... if using regular 3%, 1-2 tablespoons (15-30ml) will help deter coagulation, sludge & unwanted life... if want to apply @ 1 time... up to 2oz (4 tablespoons) per gal...

alternatives h202 is neem oil... while generally foliar fed, is very effective is drenched thru media every 2 weeks... this cleanses roots of dead matter & little insects dont like the oily compound @ all... generally adds luster & new growth to the plants as well... @ 15-30ml/gal... w/ neem though, good to extract the solution from the basin after application... though can remain if there is thin amount, say, 1/2"... will discourage bugs on out side of containers, in basin...

note on the h202... add 1st to water - before any nutes... will raise ph somewhat, to 6.5-6.8... adding acids of nute should lower to ideal 5.8-6.2...

some dont do preventative or constant maintenance, on rootzone... but roots shed like fingernails & the dead roots can be made into basically dead matter by h202... this will prevent the inside bugs from eating dead organic matter. once oxidized, less organic food for the microbes...

used to add myco tabs, soluble myco, et al... w/out adding it, same or better growth/fruit... so... eliminated from regime, unless already in a fert/supp... like floralicious plus...

the microherd is pretty well adapted @ surviving on own... mycoremediation teaches that they use myco to clean up toxic soil, & that these creatures are equiped to survive is far more hostile environments in nature @ large... so, if they are present, they come on their own... seem to work w/out them added artificially... same as ants finding sugar... myco will find & colonize roots...

awesome, are you using the 4gal bucket inside of the 5 gal? any pics?

im guessing there is sufficient oxygenation without h202 or an air pump? thnx

yes... square 4gal bucket fits snugly into 5gal bucket... w/ ~4" of rise above bottom of 5 gal... easy to lift out & examine drainage holes...

more oxygenation is provided by more holes drilled into 4 gal (or whatever to container is) bucket... the room itself becomes the air pump... ideally, lower 1/3 of the top bucket is drilled like laundry basket... the roots can either air-prune, or be encouraged to grow down into the 2nd bucket... easier maintenance by air pruning - though they still will stick out... recalling that plants' roots require oxygen too...

so... providing laminar & turbulent air flow - between the floor & the lowest leaves of the canopy allows for actual room oxygen to cycle thru actaul bucket... holes & ~ 50% inert rocks (lava, pumice, perlite, etc...) in the media, permite greater aeration than solid chunk of coco... generally termed air-holding capacity... more aeration w/ more pores for air to pass thru... created by spacing of inert rocks...

fans on the floor, or blowing thru bottom of room - & fans going over top of canopy ... some neglect the cycling of air thru the lower part of the room... good to make entire garden-room into air pump...

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[barnyard08]

Yes I posted pictures in this thread not sure of what page maybe page 4 or 5. I actually placed the black grow buckets inside of a five gallon bucket and following instuctions from mistress I added more holes in the bottom only the size of a drill bit. I cant pull the picture but its in my album 100 624 if im not mistaken its the one with the nice main cola and very good side branching.It did yellow alot toward the end but over all great results I dont no if there was any thing I could have done.

 

[JackCough]

current experiment
botanicare coco + 1Tbs osmocote Plus prills per gallon coco+ wick + tap water only
along side
botanicare coco + house and garden ebb and flow buckets at 900 ppm
no significant difference in results so far.

 

[JackCough]

!

 

[*mistress*]

current experiment
botanicare coco + 1Tbs osmocote Plus prills per gallon coco+ wick + tap water only
along side
botanicare coco + house and garden ebb and flow buckets at 900 ppm
no significant difference in results so far.

...

 

[LJB]

...

 

[turbolaser4528]

cool cool since i have containers already I will drop a 2-gal bucket in a 10-20 gallon square tote or a 5 gal bucket and run an air line to each one.

Sort of like kfb but not recirculating and relying more on the wick with just a bit more oxygenation added to the mix. (maybe ill go without air pump i know a certain some1 would love that

I just wonder if top watering is still needed/optimal, or just add nutes/water to the bottom bucket/res?

I'll post pics when im done, just gotta finish setting up the room!



Cheers

 

[*mistress*]

cool cool since i have containers already I will drop a 2-gal bucket in a 10-20 gallon square tote or a 5 gal bucket and run an air line to each one.

Sort of like kfb but not recirculating and relying more on the wick with just a bit more oxygenation added to the mix. (maybe ill go without air pump i know a certain some1 would love that

I just wonder if top watering is still needed/optimal, or just add nutes/water to the bottom bucket/res?

I'll post pics when im done, just gotta finish setting up the room! Cheers

top watering until top layer is slightly damp+++... not saturated, damp/moist. seems ok permit drying over 1-2 days, while bottom constant/steady acces to water/solution.

bottom saturation

enjoy your garden!

 

[turbolaser4528]

thank you, i am enjoying it very much! As for the wick itself, what do you recommend? I have the nylon rope now, but looking to get most even wicking, perhaps by using the medium itself as the wick hm but how to accomplish this?

some strips of cloth or rope just laying in the bottom 2" of bucket with ~3"s of chunky perlite and then covered with a 60/40 canna coco/chunky perlite mix. Top watered every 2-3 days until damp/moist, not soaked, and just replenish bottom resevoir and keep it saturated like you mentioned.

Do i need to monitor the res or can I just wait for it to dry after 2 days and then add fresh ~5.9-6.1 solution?

Sorry for all the questions, I've been trying to wrap my head around passive methods for quite some time now, its so strange to me but im strangely intrigued lol

would this keep the entire pot moist enough or am I missing something?

 

[*mistress*]

thank you, i am enjoying it very much! As for the wick itself, what do you recommend? I have the nylon rope now, but looking to get most even wicking, perhaps by using the medium itself as the wick hm but how to accomplish this?

nylon ropes work well.
cut 12-18" lengths. drill drainage holes in bottom of 3-5 gal bucket.
pull ropes (1-2) thru holes...
fill in media ~1/2 bucket. preferably 50/50 coco/perlite, lava, etc...

draw lengths of rope thru media, from opposite drainage holes, so the frayed ends rest on top of 1/2 filled bucket.

fully rooted cutting, from @ least 2 liter (1/2 gal container), preferably from 2 gal container... after 6 wk veg. is placed on top of media.

1 rope end placed below root ball/mass.
1 rope end placed bottom of bucket.

preferably, only root ball from 1/2-2 gal container has coco...
remaining media in 5 gal container all perlite, gravel, inert media...
which is beneath & to sides of transplanted cut...

this method, wicks in contact w/ coco part of mix @ all moments...

some strips of cloth or rope just laying in the bottom 2" of bucket with ~3"s of chunky perlite and then covered with a 60/40 canna coco/chunky perlite mix. Top watered every 2-3 days until damp/moist, not soaked, and just replenish bottom resevoir and keep it saturated like you mentioned.

1 frayed rope end beneath root mass. 1 frayed rope end bottom of bucket.

opposite end of both ropes extend outside of plant-holding container, into outer bucket/container.

this is why top slight dry ok... there direct source from water/solution in external res. top may seem dry, but if insert moisture meter, or, periodically dig up & examine method/plant, there will be plenty moisture both beneath root ball & @ 2" bottom of bucket.

since drainage holes @ 2"... can
1) keep run-off below this 2" line... or...
2) feed until water line is over drainage hole...

either works. option 2 best for mid-late flower, when they drink lots. maybe up to 1/2-3/4 gal day....
can measure by marking external res/bucket...

also, top watering is mainly to encourage more root development from bottom 1-2" of stem, which prefer airy-damp conditions & grow out of stem into non-wet media... if veg long enough.

Do i need to monitor the res or can I just wait for it to dry after 2 days and then add fresh ~5.9-6.1 solution?

yes. monitor res. for ph, ppms/ec & for bugs...
since res is unaerated, bugs may appear. manageable w/ h202 &/or neem oil weekly...may not dry completely in 2 days... depends on dehumidification, & how much is in the basin. & how much volume of solution is actually watered.

if provide ~1/5 volume of solution every 2 days, should be ok.
in 5 gal bucket, that is

5*128=640/5=128

128/2=64

so... @ max growth/flower, 64oz solution daily, or, 1/2 gal.
if dehumidify, that same water comes out thru leaves in 24hrs... leaving concentrated ferts in external basin...so... water next...

in feed-water-feed regime. if dont dehumidify, water less. maybe 1/8 volume of container, or

5*128=640/8=80

80/2=40

max 40 oz per day. all depnds on size of plant, size of container, size of room, temps & dehumidification capacity. can calculate, if approx. variables given...

Sorry for all the questions, I've been trying to wrap my head around passive methods for quite some time now, its so strange to me but im strangely intrigued lol

would this keep the entire pot moist enough or am I missing something?

the plant will have 100& moisture 100% moments...
key is when to make cal, or mag, the dom fert...
seems every plant prefers 1 or other @ some point during flower... that is when ph adjust happen, to let mg thru or cal thru...

but... to keep it simple & sophisticated, 15ml (1 tbsp) gh fnb, feed... 1-2 days, tap water, adjusted @ 5.2-6.0.... feed again...repeat. end.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[turbolaser4528]

nylon ropes work well.
cut 12-18" lengths. drill drainage holes in bottom of 3-5 gal bucket.
pull ropes (1-2) thru holes...
fill in media ~1/2 bucket. preferably 50/50 coco/perlite, lava, etc...

draw lengths of rope thru media, from opposite drainage holes, so the frayed ends rest on top of 1/2 filled bucket.

fully rooted cutting, from @ least 2 liter (1/2 gal container), preferably from 2 gal container... after 6 wk veg. is placed on top of media.

1 rope end placed below root ball/mass.
1 rope end placed bottom of bucket.

preferably, only root ball from 1/2-2 gal container has coco...
remaining media in 5 gal container all perlite, gravel, inert media...
which is beneath & to sides of transplanted cut...

this method, wicks in contact w/ coco part of mix @ all moments...
1 frayed rope end beneath root mass. 1 frayed rope end bottom of bucket.

opposite end of both ropes extend outside of plant-holding container, into outer bucket/container.

this is why top slight dry ok... there direct source from water/solution in external res. top may seem dry, but if insert moisture meter, or, periodically dig up & examine method/plant, there will be plenty moisture both beneath root ball & @ 2" bottom of bucket.

since drainage holes @ 2"... can
1) keep run-off below this 2" line... or...
2) feed until water line is over drainage hole...

either works. option 2 best for mid-late flower, when they drink lots. maybe up to 1/2-3/4 gal day....
can measure by marking external res/bucket...

also, top watering is mainly to encourage more root development from bottom 1-2" of stem, which prefer airy-damp conditions & grow out of stem into non-wet media... if veg long enough.
yes. monitor res. for ph, ppms/ec & for bugs...
since res is unaerated, bugs may appear. manageable w/ h202 &/or neem oil weekly...may not dry completely in 2 days... depends on dehumidification, & how much is in the basin. & how much volume of solution is actually watered.

if provide ~1/5 volume of solution every 2 days, should be ok.
in 5 gal bucket, that is

5*128=640/5=128

128/2=64

so... @ max growth/flower, 64oz solution daily, or, 1/2 gal.
if dehumidify, that same water comes out thru leaves in 24hrs... leaving concentrated ferts in external basin...so... water next...

in feed-water-feed regime. if dont dehumidify, water less. maybe 1/8 volume of container, or

5*128=640/8=80

80/2=40

max 40 oz per day. all depnds on size of plant, size of container, size of room, temps & dehumidification capacity. can calculate, if approx. variables given...

the plant will have 100& moisture 100% moments...
key is when to make cal, or mag, the dom fert...
seems every plant prefers 1 or other @ some point during flower... that is when ph adjust happen, to let mg thru or cal thru...

but... to keep it simple & sophisticated, 15ml (1 tbsp) gh fnb, feed... 1-2 days, tap water, adjusted @ 5.8-6.0.... feed again...repeat. end.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

helped my understanding of the subject very much thank you.

will try to use delta9nxs' media wick/sump design in the ppk thread and create some sort of linked-bucket media (coco or coco/perlite) wick system lol if that makes any sense.

I may add an airline to media wick to increase o2 and time beween waterings, even though i may not need 2, i will experiment nonetheless. thanks again for sharing your knowledge, cheerio!