Coco Tree's

[smurfin'herb]

Looks like we have a winner here. Nice job Don. For anyone hating, you can tell this guy is an experienced grower not soley by the size of the grows, but the techniques he has described. As well as trials he has performed to see what works best. This all comes with experience, if you have it, you can recognize it in others.

So what if he takes 10 clones per dome? Look how big they are, and check out the root systems again. Thats a perfect example of quality over quantity. Anyone can smash 50-100 cuttings in a prop tray, but what are your success rates and quality going to be like....consistently and over time? Like he said, you will sometimes run into rot doing it that way. Not always, but its common. Now, if you know what your doing, i can agree that you can have good results with say 72 per tray. Ive done it with 99% and 100% success rates. You just really have to be on top of your game. Having a clone room, instead of a clone domes is a huge advantage as well. Air circulation during rooting is huge for rot and mold problems. You dont realize it until you move out of the domes. If i ever go commercial, i would do it that way again. Rockwool plugs on perlite beds in flow trays. Let them grow for 5-7 days after signs of roots, transplant, and toss em in flower. No veg room. Straight sog. Veg rooms pull time, and money out of your wallet. No offense to you Don.

I go every other hole on a 72 site insert, and none around the edges usually. Thats about 20/tray. Another tip like spraying only the dome will help them root faster and prevent mold spores from forming on the plant tissue. Thats one you should have kept for yourself DJM
I like to foliar moms or dip cuts in neem oil/potash silicate before, or while cloning as well. Its especially useful when you are working with an arid environment. (40%rh and below exterior)

@DJM- A few questions if you dont mind...

Are you using pure coco mostly? which brand?

How many times per day are you feeding during the stretch phase of flower?

What are your experiences like mixing coco with perlite vs. without?

Have you tested doing the transplant right at flower vs. letting them veg a bit, and settle into the pots first?

Are you using r/o water? If so, are you supplementing with calmag?

And whats your main fert brand? Apologies if this was mentioned.

 

[squarepush3r]

legit thread

 

[tleaf jr.]

Wow this thread is a little overwhelming lol makes me feel like a complete rookie in this shit ... This thread found me at the right time as I've been having problems with my coco veg plants. I can attest that 85-88 and highest rh your plants will alow does go a long way , this round I have had the highest rh and temps I've ever ran at and I can tell the difference and Ive been growing this strain for about two in a half years now every run so I know her like the back of my hand ...ok I'll be quietly learning

 

[mowood3479]

@djm
Sweet set up, obviously dialed...
i had a question for u... If u care to oblige me with ur thoughts it'd be much appreciated.

I've noticed in my rooms that when I set canopy temps in mid 80s the yields go up but the quality seems to suffer a bit..
The rh of my rooms hasn't ever been as high as u run urs tho (nor as steady)

So, I was wondering... Do u notice a difference in quality at higher temps 85+... Or are u not seeing a drop in quality with the higher rh that u run in flower?

I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way, Im in no way questioning the quality of ur flowers, just wondering ur thoughts and if u had seen any of the same anectdotal evidence I have with mid 80s canopy temps and lower rh >55%...
i would imagine u came to ur environmental set points thru trial and error... So I was hoping u had some thoughts on this because I've gone back to running mid 70s canopy temps in an attempt to improve quality.. Just not seeing the yield I had at higher temps..
I hadn't considered the rh factor tho.. Perhaps bumping up the rh is needed to run the higher temps n still get the fire...
Thoughts? Always excited to pick the brain of a truly dialed in grower.. I know ur rooms didn't fall together by accident. Much respect.
Mo

 

[Unclecrash]

Great Job Mayne! Your data/ROOTS are outstanding solider.

Full speed ahead, & God Bless

I'll be looking out for some bud shots!

Im not saying what is write or wrong as Im too green, but if they can grow in tropical enviroments like Hawaii and Im sure the humidity quite high over there then why cant we replicate it in our rooms like DJM is doing. Maybe the persons getting bud rot has some other parameter out of wack that is allowing it to get mold's like possibly a weak root system or some other factors causing the problem. Or a factor of how much air is being put through the room, DJM seems to have it dialed in. Sorry Waxy didnt mean to quote you I thought I was quoting DJM's post that you quoted.

 

[Unclecrash]

Mowood I have heard the same thing from my Bro. A guy he know's is getting 2lb a plant or a bit more, but his quality is not up there with my bro's but that aint to say that DJM's isnt the bomb or the next guy's.

 

[Unclecrash]

I hadn't considered the rh factor tho.. Perhaps bumping up the rh is needed to run the higher temps n still get the fire...

I could see where the more moisture could be it, so the high temps dont suck the life out of the bud. Could and probably go hand in hand. But like I said Im also green behind the ears.

 

[DJM]

To djm, damn good posts man! Spot on. I am still learning the enough airflow but seeing what the temps and rh do. Crazy.
Spread the love mang. Thanks.

thanks. my pleasure

 

[homebrew420]

you are correct. I explained that in an earlier post. that in early veg I use a wet and dry cycle to build a solid root system..i only multifeed when pots are full of roots

Not really. one may see a slow down for a day or so with multiple feeding, however if environment is good and plant is healthy they adapt and take off as well.

DJM, you are WASTING SOOOOO much space with only 10 per tray. What fucking joker you are, WTF? hahaha

Keep up the great work in here my man

Peace

 

[homebrew420]

DJM do you burn Sulphur? we love that junk, let those RH hit the 70s! Peace

 

[DJM]

damn, I had no idea you were on the mag! Been following you on IG for a long time and always been a big admirer.

Thank you for coming here and taking the time to do some detailed write-ups, it is VERY appreciated. Seems like every grower nowadays posts strictly on IG because it's just snap a pic, post, and feed the ego with likes. There's no real discussion or knowledge dissemination do to the nature of the platform itself.

I run a very similar system to yours, although I'm using botanicare readygro aeration mix (has perlite mixed in), and feed for about 10 seconds every hour. I'm still fine-tuning getting the root mass/pot size ratio right, and am excited to see the potential once it is locked in like yours clearly demonstrates.

Completely separate from the plants themselves - do you not worry about structural mold in your basement? How is the exposed wood on the ceiling protected? I've seen friends completely ruin grow houses with black mold from high RH environments. Obviously you've been doing this a long time, so interested to hear your observations on that aspect.

Again, thanks for joining us here.

thanks a lot. and I agree about ig..its not really a good platform for discussion..so I wanted to come here and breakdown some info for those interested..im loyal to the forum community, as I would not be where I am, nor doing what im doing if it were not for overgrow and icmag..its truly changed my life for the better

that's a really good question..mold in the room itself isn't an issue, I personally haven't seen any mold develop in the room..however, if room isn't designed right it can develop in other parts of the house..this happens when the room is not sealed and the intake or ac pushing in fresh air will push the wet air to other parts of the house, at much higher rh than I run in the room...my room is hermetically sealed..a room within a room...I mentioned I have an exhaust that runs at night..well this exhaust also acts as a lung of sorts, and when the fresh air is pushed in, instead of the humid air being pushed into the house, it goes out through the exhaust , as that's the only exit point in the room..it makes me go through a lot of gas for co2 , due to loosing some air..but what im saving by not running ac or dehuey/humidifier makes up for it...this style is not for everyone..i don't know one person that runs rooms like this, nor have I ever seen one..so I understand how it can be odd or controversial for outside observers..but ive been running it as long as ive been in Colorado, and ive had nothing but success and am able to keep production costs very low..its also silly to run ac in this climate, when its so cold out half the year that youd be running heaters more than ac..i also don't like the look of big ass mini splits in my back yard..its easy to spot and every one knows what its for, as no one runs mini splits for ac in a normal house..i know people that have gotten robbed because thieves were tipped off by peeking over the fence and seeing a mini split handler

 

[DJM]

Just wondering, would i be correct in assuming this would never work in hotter climates? My climate is very hot and dry and i have to decide on going a/c and dehumidy in 100% sealed room or a semi sealed option like yourself.. also how does your room maintain co2 levels if its always being extracted/fed new air?

yeah no way this would work in a hot climate...or a cold wet one...can only work in a dry and cold climate...know some people in the pnw that are trying it though, but a humidifier would be essential in that scenario id think...im from s florida originally and I always ran ac down there..but when I came here, I tried to use the cold air outside to my benefit

the room isn't being exhausted..only intake pushing in fresh air while lights and the air that is dissipated is pushed out of the exhaust..so I do loose some air, but not too much...I maintain co2 levels fine , I have and 8 burner generator..but I do go through about twice as much gas as I would in a totally sealed and acd room...but its still a fraction of the cost of running ac and dehueys..so it works for me

 

[DJM]

Great Job Mayne! Your data/ROOTS are outstanding solider.

Full speed ahead, & God Bless

I'll be looking out for some bud shots!

thanks man..getting my posts up to post more pics as I maxed out my pics allowed already..post some up today

 

[DJM]

I still can't believe you don't use a humidifier of some sort. You must really have those rooms airtight to be using the plants to create that humidity. I wish I could get my rooms that high, any tips on increasing & maintaining a constant RH?

its all about the ratio of vegetation to room size..plants take up over half of the space in the room..that much mass lets off TONS of moisture..if I had half the plants in same room it would never work..my tip would be to fill up as much space in the room as possible with plants...during veg after transplant under main lights, the plants don't create as much moisture as they take up a much smaller percentage of the room..so during the 2 week preveg, i spray down the concrete once a day or let plants run off onto it and that keeps the room at the proper rh..i could use a humidifier at that stage, but its only 2 weeks, so its not necessary for me to get one

 

[DJM]

Looks like we have a winner here. Nice job Don. For anyone hating, you can tell this guy is an experienced grower not soley by the size of the grows, but the techniques he has described. As well as trials he has performed to see what works best. This all comes with experience, if you have it, you can recognize it in others.

So what if he takes 10 clones per dome? Look how big they are, and check out the root systems again. Thats a perfect example of quality over quantity. Anyone can smash 50-100 cuttings in a prop tray, but what are your success rates and quality going to be like....consistently and over time? Like he said, you will sometimes run into rot doing it that way. Not always, but its common. Now, if you know what your doing, i can agree that you can have good results with say 72 per tray. Ive done it with 99% and 100% success rates. You just really have to be on top of your game. Having a clone room, instead of a clone domes is a huge advantage as well. Air circulation during rooting is huge for rot and mold problems. You dont realize it until you move out of the domes. If i ever go commercial, i would do it that way again. Rockwool plugs on perlite beds in flow trays. Let them grow for 5-7 days after signs of roots, transplant, and toss em in flower. No veg room. Straight sog. Veg rooms pull time, and money out of your wallet. No offense to you Don.

I go every other hole on a 72 site insert, and none around the edges usually. Thats about 20/tray. Another tip like spraying only the dome will help them root faster and prevent mold spores from forming on the plant tissue. Thats one you should have kept for yourself DJM
I like to foliar moms or dip cuts in neem oil/potash silicate before, or while cloning as well. Its especially useful when you are working with an arid environment. (40%rh and below exterior)

@DJM- A few questions if you dont mind...

Are you using pure coco mostly? which brand?

How many times per day are you feeding during the stretch phase of flower?

What are your experiences like mixing coco with perlite vs. without?

Have you tested doing the transplant right at flower vs. letting them veg a bit, and settle into the pots first?

Are you using r/o water? If so, are you supplementing with calmag?

And whats your main fert brand? Apologies if this was mentioned.

thanks..well i run trees.. so shoving 100 in a dome isn't necessary, as i only run 30...so only need 5 domes and root 50, then pick the best 30 out of them..also what other peoples definition of a clone isn't the same as mine..i root huge clones..only from main tops ..while most root tiny secondary branches..with big clones, you cant fit more than 12 in a dome max with them that big..if you do, leaves will over lap and it will effect rooting and general clone health...you can get 100% with 72 a dome..shit ive done 100% on 50 a dome many times..i do what i do for a reason..you can root 72 , sure, but how large are they? i guarantee you would need to veg them 2 weeks to be the size of mine after rooting

pure coco ; house and garden or plagron

during stretch its dependent on how many they need to stay wet..can be as little as 2-4 a day or 6..depends

i personally like pure coco but perlite mixes work well in some scenarios

i use straight tap water...i never use calmag

id never flower right at transplant, they veg a min of 2 weeks before flowering after transplant..flowering a plant without a root system is like trying to run a marathon with crutches

ferts are constantly changing, right now running a no name brand of water soluble ferts..called aqua grow hydroponic special..first grow posted was 6/9 and tap

 

[DJM]

oh and i moved to Colorado to be legit..running a sog in a set up this size would be an illegal plant count..and veg to me doesn't loose money...its less than 10-20 bucks a month to run and allows me to only have 2 weeks down time between crops, same as many sogs, all while staying legit..i could have cops walk through my grow and leave..while in a sog, id be charged...and that to me would cost a lot more than 20 bucks a month

 

[DJM]

legit thread

thanks man

 

[DJM]

Wow this thread is a little overwhelming lol makes me feel like a complete rookie in this shit ... This thread found me at the right time as I've been having problems with my coco veg plants. I can attest that 85-88 and highest rh your plants will alow does go a long way , this round I have had the highest rh and temps I've ever ran at and I can tell the difference and Ive been growing this strain for about two in a half years now every run so I know her like the back of my hand ...ok I'll be quietly learning

don't feel that way..we all start somewhere, just stay passionate and never stop learning

feel free to ask any questions you may have

 

[DJM]

@djm
Sweet set up, obviously dialed...
i had a question for u... If u care to oblige me with ur thoughts it'd be much appreciated.

I've noticed in my rooms that when I set canopy temps in mid 80s the yields go up but the quality seems to suffer a bit..
The rh of my rooms hasn't ever been as high as u run urs tho (nor as steady)

So, I was wondering... Do u notice a difference in quality at higher temps 85+... Or are u not seeing a drop in quality with the higher rh that u run in flower?

I hope this question isn't taken the wrong way, Im in no way questioning the quality of ur flowers, just wondering ur thoughts and if u had seen any of the same anectdotal evidence I have with mid 80s canopy temps and lower rh >55%...
i would imagine u came to ur environmental set points thru trial and error... So I was hoping u had some thoughts on this because I've gone back to running mid 70s canopy temps in an attempt to improve quality.. Just not seeing the yield I had at higher temps..
I hadn't considered the rh factor tho.. Perhaps bumping up the rh is needed to run the higher temps n still get the fire...
Thoughts? Always excited to pick the brain of a truly dialed in grower.. I know ur rooms didn't fall together by accident. Much respect.
Mo

thanks man...you are absolutely correct...thing with high temps and vpd in general, is you need to run a certain rh to be able to run a certain temp..if not quality will suffer...if i tried to run 84 with 50% rh, it would suffer..if i tried to run 75 with 70% it would also suffer..temps need to be in proper relation to rh or it will do more harm than good..if its hot and dry , the environment will suck moisture from the plants and lead to a loss in quality...if ran correctly, high temps in relation to rh will actually boost quality as well as yield..ive put many people onto high temps and rh and they have all noticed the same

 

[DJM]

Im not saying what is write or wrong as Im too green, but if they can grow in tropical enviroments like Hawaii and Im sure the humidity quite high over there then why cant we replicate it in our rooms like DJM is doing. Maybe the persons getting bud rot has some other parameter out of wack that is allowing it to get mold's like possibly a weak root system or some other factors causing the problem. Or a factor of how much air is being put through the room, DJM seems to have it dialed in. Sorry Waxy didnt mean to quote you I thought I was quoting DJM's post that you quoted.

you are correct..its all about how its utilized