Cloning Feminized Autos and Reversing the Sex on the Clones with STS for Pollen

[Timj]

I am getting some of these seeds ready to give away and I am wondering what a person would like to know about the seeds they get. Basically, what information to include on the label.

Does it matter to anyone who the original breeder was? For example, the Trainwreck came from Fastbuds420 and the White Widow I used for pollinating was from Seed Supreme. Would I include that on the label and label them "Fastbuds420 Trainwreck x Seed Supreme White Widow"? Or, would I just say "Trainwreck x White Widow"?

Obviously, I would label them as Feminized Autoflowering Seeds. But, would I also include that each donor was a "Feminized Autoflower" and that the White Widow was reversed for the pollen? Does this matter to anyone?

I guess these would be called F1's? Even though the donor was a reversed female rather than a true male, as far as I can understand, since they were 2 different distinct strains, it is still an F1. Yes?

Also, if I'm not mistaken the name order is, the seed producing plant (female) strain first x the pollen donator (male) or in this case the reversed female, second.

So, this would be Trainwreck x White Widow

Or, do I just skip everything and call it WhiteTrain or TrainWidow? LOL

I may be overthinking this since I have never really done any breeding and always grew Landrace as much as possible. But, I read a lot of posts by breeders and many of them seem interested in details.

Thanks again.

I list the strain and breeder as I find a lot of variation between breeders of the same strain. I also include which plant donated the pollen. I'd call it an F1 as you didn't self the pollen to the White widow. You crossed it with another strain. But, I don't claim to be an expert. So maybe someone on a higher pay scale will chime in. I also date when I harvested the seeds with month and year.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Cool, thanks. I'll go with these...

TRAINWRECK X WHITE WIDOW F1
FASTBUDS 420 TRAINWRECK
FEM AUTO PLANT X
SEED SUPREME WHITE WIDOW
FEM AUTO POLLEN


SEED SUPREME WHITE WIDOW S1
WHITE WIDOW FEM AUTO PLANT
x SAME PLANT CLONES REVERSED FOR POLLEN
March 2024

 

[Thegreengrower64]

Cool, thanks. I'll go with these...

TRAINWRECK X WHITE WIDOW F1
FASTBUDS 420 TRAINWRECK
FEM AUTO PLANT X
SEED SUPREME WHITE WIDOW
FEM AUTO POLLEN


SEED SUPREME WHITE WIDOW S1
WHITE WIDOW FEM AUTO PLANT
x SAME PLANT CLONES REVERSED FOR POLLEN
March 2024

By true definition, neither trainwreck or white widow are stand alone strains. Both polyhybrids. So I wouldn't use the term F1, as they are both far from that. But I do understand your thinking on the matter.

 

[Ringodoggie]

I am reversing some Sour Diesel Autos and I caught 2 decent pictures.

One shows how it looks when I use a pipette to apply the STS. You can see how I just balance the drop right between the leaf and the pistils. I do this at every bud site. Since these are clones and I find they do better with nice clean water at first (while they are rooting) rather than STS spray, I don't spray the STS (I only use the drops) until the clones have rooted and I transplant them. Then, I spray and drop, both.

The second pic is kind of cool. The camera auto-focus zoned in on the bubble and got a cool reflection of the LED light above. Love the color separation done by the bubble. Pretty neat. Just thought I would share. Zoom in on the second pic to see the reflection in the bubble.

EDIT: Oops, can't zoom in. I guess the site reduces the size to same room. Added a zoomed pic.

 

[DaEarl73]

I am reversing some Sour Diesel Autos and I caught 2 decent pictures.

One shows how it looks when I use a pipette to apply the STS. You can see how I just balance the drop right between the leaf and the pistils. I do this at every bud site. Since these are clones and I find they do better with nice clean water at first (while they are rooting) rather than STS spray, I don't spray the STS (I only use the drops) until the clones have rooted and I transplant them. Then, I spray and drop, both.

The second pic is kind of cool. The camera auto-focus zoned in on the bubble and got a cool reflection of the LED light above. Love the color separation done by the bubble. Pretty neat. Just thought I would share. Zoom in on the second pic to see the reflection in the bubble.

EDIT: Oops, can't zoom in. I guess the site reduces the size to same room. Added a zoomed pic.

Nice one! How du you success cloning autos? Never tried it but heard it’s quite difficult? You plant the auto seeds first in a big pot that they have longer veg and when they start flowering you cut clones or just when they are ready to clone ? Congrats on the reverse! Also something not everyone success. Mine are in week 4 and a half in flower (photo periodic) and I am still waiting for pollen , the balls are there. First time I hope for it haha

 

[Ringodoggie]

The rumor/myth that you can't clone autos is exactly that... a myth. However, it is true that certain things happen. For 1, the plant clock is set back. Clones are usually 3 to 4 weeks behind the donor/mother. Another seems to be that the clones do not get as big as the donor/mother. Other than that, they clone the same as a photoperiod plant.

I use the exact same process for autos and photos. When the mother is about 3 to 4 weeks old and has enough branches to take clones, that's when I take them. I put the clones in solo cups with dirt and put them under the humidity dome. I start STS treatments the very first day after they a cloned. 2 weeks later, the dome comes off. A week or 2 later, they get transplanted from the solo cups to a #1 nursery pot. I do 7 STS treatments in about 3 to 4 weeks treating with STS every 4th day. So far, I have had 100% success with this method.

Thanks

 

[goingrey]

The rumor/myth that you can't clone autos is exactly that... a myth. However, it is true that certain things happen. For 1, the plant clock is set back. Clones are usually 3 to 4 weeks behind the donor/mother. Another seems to be that the clones do not get as big as the donor/mother. Other than that, they clone the same as a photoperiod plant.

I use the exact same process for autos and photos. When the mother is about 3 to 4 weeks old and has enough branches to take clones, that's when I take them. I put the clones in solo cups with dirt and put them under the humidity dome. I start STS treatments the very first day after they a cloned. 2 weeks later, the dome comes off. A week or 2 later, they get transplanted from the solo cups to a #1 nursery pot. I do 7 STS treatments in about 3 to 4 weeks treating with STS every 4th day. So far, I have had 100% success with this method.

Thanks

What's the benefit? Why not just pop an extra seed and spray that plant? Obviously it can't be a proven clone anyway..

 

[Ringodoggie]

I did it that way the first time and I got a nice seed plant but since it was treated with STS, I couldn't smoke it. So, after I took the seeds, I had to throw away 4 ounces of good pot. This way, I can still smoke the mother plant and all I loose is the few bottom branches that I took for clones.

Plus, if the mother/donor plant turns out to be a shitty pheno, I'll know that the pollen and seeds will likely be the same.

This is how I plan to pheno hunt pollen donors.

I'll plant 10 auto/fem seeds. then, I will take 4 clones from each of those plants and reverse them all. When the donor plants mature, I can choose which has the best characteristics and toss the other 9 (x4) clones and use only the pollen from the 4 clones that were taken from my favorite donor.

In this way, I have not lost a pound of pot to STS.

I suppose that are other ways to do it. I am new to all this so I am just feeling my way through. I have been a clone grower most of my life.

 

[goingrey]

I did it that way the first time and I got a nice seed plant but since it was treated with STS, I couldn't smoke it. So, after I took the seeds, I had to throw away 4 ounces of good pot. This way, I can still smoke the mother plant and all I loose is the few bottom branches that I took for clones.

Plus, if the mother/donor plant turns out to be a shitty pheno, I'll know that the pollen and seeds will likely be the same.

This is how I plan to pheno hunt pollen donors.

I'll plant 10 auto/fem seeds. then, I will take 4 clones from each of those plants and reverse them all. When the donor plants mature, I can choose which has the best characteristics and toss the other 9 (x4) clones and use only the pollen from the 4 clones that were taken from my favorite donor.

In this way, I have not lost a pound of pot to STS.

I suppose that are other ways to do it. I am new to all this so I am just feeling my way through. I have been a clone grower most of my life.

Good point, that way you can test it after the fact.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Makes me wonder how the commercial breeders pheno hunt autos.

Male is easy enough. Find your strongest/best/whatever male and take the pollen for later.

However, in the females (or if you're reversing), by the time you know if it has awesome traits... it's past the time when it should have been pollinated (or reversed).

Hmmm? Inquiring minds what to know. LOL

 

[goingrey]

Makes me wonder how the commercial breeders pheno hunt autos.

Male is easy enough. Find your strongest/best/whatever male and take the pollen for later.

However, in the females (or if you're reversing), by the time you know if it has awesome traits... it's past the time when it should have been pollinated (or reversed).

Hmmm? Inquiring minds what to know. LOL

I would imagine they are looking for a population of phenos instead of an individual plant. And will want a lot of pollen... So they just reverse some of the plants from that population. And if they are familiar enough with the line should be able to identify the plants from that phenotype population early enough.

Or maybe they buy a three pack from a competitor and reverse one of them?

Would be a great question for some of the big guys!

 

[DaEarl73]

Makes me wonder how the commercial breeders pheno hunt autos.

Male is easy enough. Find your strongest/best/whatever male and take the pollen for later.

However, in the females (or if you're reversing), by the time you know if it has awesome traits... it's past the time when it should have been pollinated (or reversed).

Hmmm? Inquiring minds what to know. LOL

There are regular autos too, so i guess the process is pretty the same. If you start from scratch you need to cross a Photo to an auto, there you will have both traits, auto and photo. So you keep 18h and wait until some flowers and cross the Best of it togehter. And this 3-4 times ( i dont remember) to get auto only. If they make auto fems, i guess they pop a lot (the more the better) seeds, clone all like you did, spray some of each with sts, and search for the traits you want, yield taste, flowertime Stretch etc i am sure if you want to do it good you need to phenohunt and put in some work

 

[Ringodoggie]

I just finished the 7th and final STS treatment. The clones are 4 weeks old. Looks like the reversal took.

I see 1 or 2 open flowers but I have not seen any pollen yet.

Left rear is a ChemDog that I plan to pollinate and right rear is the Sour Diesel clone donor

 

[Fuel]

By true definition, neither trainwreck or white widow are stand alone strains. Both polyhybrids. So I wouldn't use the term F1, as they are both far from that. But I do understand your thinking on the matter.

""a hybrid whose parents differ in a number of characters : an individual or group heterozygous for more than one pair of genes""

Nothing to have with the uniformity of the cross (not necessary stable genetically) in term of genotype, it's about the sole concept of hybridization, at chromosome level.

You can cross two old pure Afghani IBLs (made from the same P1), and get a poly-hybrid. This qualification belong to the traits worked and their averages, it's not a word used to set a qualitative evaluation. Lets say on the first Afghani you work potency and bud shape. On the second afghani you work colors and terps. You just have a tetra-hybrid (wich is a polyhybrid) if the cross is successfull.

Obviously, I would label them as Feminized Autoflowering Seeds. But, would I also include that each donor was a "Feminized Autoflower" and that the White Widow was reversed for the pollen? Does this matter to anyone?

It's very more simple that it look if you don't aim the random kid that don't know shit ^^

Source : The majority of breeder just wrap it with storytelling. I'm not blaming, it's what customers are asking.

The notation of the cross : Pollen donor last.

For example, the Trainwreck came from Fastbuds420 and the White Widow I used for pollinating was from Seed Supreme.

(TW x WW) F1 Fem, then in description you give the source if you're one of the last mohicans with a decent etiquette ^^

Obviously, I would label them as Feminized Autoflowering Seeds. But, would I also include that each donor was a "Feminized Autoflower" and that the White Widow was reversed for the pollen? Does this matter to anyone?

Depend. If you say to a wholesaler that you're just making double-fems ripoff ... i'm not sure your karma will help much ^^ Even the most obvious ripoff are generally hacking an entire catalog, reg side.

Before distributing, you should prevent that they are R&D protos used to find a way to start from better materials.

 

[Grow44DE]

Great work and very interesting topic @Ringodoggie

 

[Ringodoggie]

Yeah baby.... we have launch. I was fondling the clones today and came back with yellow fingers.

31 days to the mark. Exactly the same schedule as the last 2 times. Pretty consistent considering they were all 3 different strains.

Fucking whiteflies are killing me. We had an epidemic outside this year and they got inside. I have 2 tents indoors and they keep going back and forth. I need to shut it all down and clean it all up once and for all.

Right now, the schedule is to pollinate the 2 plants in the clone tent (the Sour Diesel clone donor and a ChemDog) Hopefully, they will also produce enough pollen so I can collect some for later. We'll see. So, 1 week to pollinate the mothers and then 6 weeks for the seeds to mature. That will put the mother/donor at about 16 weeks. Pretty old for an auto. We'll see, I guess.

Thanks again to all the folks and threads here at ICMag for making this all so easy.