Clones Rotting in EZ Cloner. Please Read.

[The Admiral]

Hello! Been awhile lol. Quick back story….

I have been growing for 19 years, ran an awesome grow store for 10 years and have been working a state licensed, 100% legal grow for 5 years.

Not my style of growing but the licensed facility is organic, no til soil. The mother plants are kept in this mix as well and are all green and healthy.

We use EZ Cloners for production and I have been using them personally for around 13 years with great success.

The cloners are typically sterilized in bleach but I have also experimented with Zerotol.

The issue is, I fill the machines the way I always have, cut clones and quite often for the last year I’d say, I am ending up with rotting clones. Some strains are definitely worse than others. It now has me pulling my hair out. I’ve talked to EZC directly. We even bought all new machines.

Always use new cloning collars. I have tried RO water through a Hydrologic machine with the UV Sterilizing Bulb, our city tap water, varied the level of Clonex Solution, use Clear Rez, tried Clonex Gel, EZ Clone Gel….taken to mixing the gel in a small bottle of water, shaking and pouring that into machine instead of dipping cuttings (which I must say I love).

Nothing is alleviating the issue. The water temps are in range. Ph is locked at 5.8. I put more effort into this than I ever have my own medical grow and it just seems to get worse here.

I am ready to quit this place before it drives me insane lol.

One theory I have, is the organic no-til is trash. I have never liked it but its how they want to operate here. In my head its possible the plants are taking up organic material and its ending up being pooped out into the cloners and causing contamination. I would love to keep moms in ProMix and just feed them MaxiGro to see if that fixes this issue.

Always use a new scalpel for each strain. I have tried washing the clones in a 15ml/gal Zerotol rinse after talking to them on the phone.

30ml/gal Clonex Solution, 1oz/5 gal Clear Rez, about 5ml gel mixed/shaken into a pill bottle of water then poured in machine…all ph’d to 5.8.

A 54w watt T5 bulb runs over the cloners about 2-2.5’ away.

I have one 128 now, and 60 clones are rooted beautifully at day 11 while the other 60 clones in that machine look like shit and have pulled about 10 out that had rotten stems inside the machine and the top of the plant was dying and falling over.

I am fresh out of things to think i can do to make this any better other than ProMix and MaxiGro as I have done it that way for years with pretty much 100% success cloning in my legal, medical grow.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!! Thank you in advance

 

[Creeperpark]

Go back to RO water and raise the pH to 6.3.

 

[Ca++]

Sounds like they have the budget for testing. Look for fungus like problems. What a healthy plant can fight off, a cutting might loose the battle to.

You could also try taking a branch off a mum to another location. Section it up, and root it there instead. Away from the old soil beds.

You could forget the aero cloners completely, and go into coco or soil. Both are a better environment in terms of natural balance.

There seems no point in continuing with a process that's not working.



I suspect a fungal issue within the plant tissue. So bringing in fresh plants might also prove a point.
People can certainly make them things work, as you have before. So something has changed. Having worked through all the seasons, with new kit, it's only the plants left. If just one got a problem, them cloners would soon spread it.

 

[exoticrobotic]

No till will have much more fungal presence vs other media which maybe better for mature plants but not allowing cuts to root before fungus starts decomposing the unrooted veg matter.

Try cloning in rockwool, put half as many clones in cloner so no leaves touch each other and no leaves touch the sides of propagator.

Maybe also try manual misting rather than a constant aeroponic mist which could increase ability for fungus to spread.

Get a fan blowing/extraction over the cloner so fungal spores dont land on it.

Good luck!

 

[Lester Beans]

Go back to RO water and raise the pH to 6.3.

pH 5.8 is perfect for cloners.

What is your water temp? It needs to be in the high 60's.

Also use Hygrozyme at 6ml per gallon and you will never see rot again. Even if water temps hit the mid 70's the Hygrozyme keeps them good.

Best of luck!

 

[The Admiral]

Appreciate all the replies and sorry for delay coming back. Life n work 🫠

So I have a few hundred clones going in rockwool in domes. Seeing visible roots in 14 days and the clones look better but not super healthy. Just using Clonex and Clear Rez phd to 5.8 for the rockwool

I do agree there must be some fungal shit going on as Ive never seen such trash results in any of my other grows/locations over the last 12-13 years using EZ Cloners.

I know Hygrozyme but have never used it. I’ll have them pick some up and run some side by sides with and without and see what happens.

I get issue with and without RO water so Im pretty confident its not that.

Imho, I think 6.3 is too high of a ph for aerocloning. 5.7-5.8 is the way. Temps are in low 70s. I think there is a decent range of acceptability in cloners. Like 63-75. I never control temps in my personal cloner and the basement environment does vary (outside the grow rooms) a little with change of seasons. Summer that water pushes high 70s and i get the roots. I do use Clear Rez every 3 days in summer tho as opposed to 4-5 in cooler temps

Im gonna run some experiments and report my findings. Thanks again for the replies and advice. I do appreciate it!

I did tell the boss today if this was my show, itd be all ProMix and fed MaxiGrow. I think the no til is to blame myself.

 

[Ca++]

I doubt he will show your ideas much love, if it's to change everything. It's not finding the answer. It might not even work. Things are pointing to the plants, not the environment.

Tell your boss he does hundreds, so instead of loosing money this way, spend some getting them tested. Seeing this as cuts, speaks of constant pressure upon the plants, that must be impacting his yield. There is no sense carrying on the grow in this way, when a few hundred dollars could fix it, and improve the whole facility.
You could explain it's how modern horticulture works, and even hobby growers are using labs to find their issues. Fall short of calling him a useless dick, but do imply he is clueless and ask if you can send some to 'example' to put him on the spot, needing to accept or deny your request. If he pauses, suggest the yield could go up 10%, if you can relieve an unseen pressure upon them, that's outright killing them when they are weak.

If he still wavers, explain you might have to leave, because you can't risk transferring this issue to other grows that pay you properly.

 

[Tomatoesonly]

Any updates?

 

[Rockchild]

R/O water, tap water, high ph, low ph, none of that matters in water cloners. Water temp is whats important. I use an Oxyclover that I modified with an Ice Probe that holds water temps to 73 degrees. Never ever have I had anything but 100% rooting success.
Btw, I use my 390ppm, 8.7 ph tap water…

 

[Rockchild]

Sometimes I don’t change out the water for months…

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Everything else is ok once they're rooted, yes?

Did the problem show up immediately after the change to no-till, or did it take a few runs before this showed?

Have there been any changes in the water supply? Something which would only visibly effect weaker plants?

Have there been any IPM changes with the change to no-till?

Personally, I would argue to go back to Pro-Mix and Maxi-Grow for Mums and clones. Both for money and frustration reasons.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Have you tried EWC tea? It's the go-to solution for cyanobacteria slime issues, and since this is likely fungal it may be a good choice.

Edit: What are your restrictions as far as what you can use? Can you use 'natural' products like EWC tea and other 'brewed' products?

 

[Stone]

R/O water, tap water, high ph, low ph, none of that matters in water cloners. Water temp is whats important. I use an Oxyclover that I modified with an Ice Probe that holds water temps to 73 degrees. Never ever have I had anything but 100% rooting success.
Btw, I use my 390ppm, 8.7 ph tap water…

Could you elaborate on the ice probe and how it keeps temps stable?
I’m looking for something other than a chiller to lower aerocloner water temp.
Feel free to pm if it seems off topic.

 

[Hiddenjems]

Could you elaborate on the ice probe and how it keeps temps stable?
I’m looking for something other than a chiller to lower aerocloner water temp.
Feel free to pm if it seems off topic.

My aero cloners dont work great unless I keep the water around 75*. I put southern ag garden friendly fungicide in them, zero stem rot.

 

[Dime]

Hello! Been awhile lol. Quick back story….

I have been growing for 19 years, ran an awesome grow store for 10 years and have been working a state licensed, 100% legal grow for 5 years.

Not my style of growing but the licensed facility is organic, no til soil. The mother plants are kept in this mix as well and are all green and healthy.

We use EZ Cloners for production and I have been using them personally for around 13 years with great success.

The cloners are typically sterilized in bleach but I have also experimented with Zerotol.

The issue is, I fill the machines the way I always have, cut clones and quite often for the last year I’d say, I am ending up with rotting clones. Some strains are definitely worse than others. It now has me pulling my hair out. I’ve talked to EZC directly. We even bought all new machines.

Always use new cloning collars. I have tried RO water through a Hydrologic machine with the UV Sterilizing Bulb, our city tap water, varied the level of Clonex Solution, use Clear Rez, tried Clonex Gel, EZ Clone Gel….taken to mixing the gel in a small bottle of water, shaking and pouring that into machine instead of dipping cuttings (which I must say I love).

Nothing is alleviating the issue. The water temps are in range. Ph is locked at 5.8. I put more effort into this than I ever have my own medical grow and it just seems to get worse here.

I am ready to quit this place before it drives me insane lol.

One theory I have, is the organic no-til is trash. I have never liked it but its how they want to operate here. In my head its possible the plants are taking up organic material and its ending up being pooped out into the cloners and causing contamination. I would love to keep moms in ProMix and just feed them MaxiGro to see if that fixes this issue.

Always use a new scalpel for each strain. I have tried washing the clones in a 15ml/gal Zerotol rinse after talking to them on the phone.

30ml/gal Clonex Solution, 1oz/5 gal Clear Rez, about 5ml gel mixed/shaken into a pill bottle of water then poured in machine…all ph’d to 5.8.

A 54w watt T5 bulb runs over the cloners about 2-2.5’ away.

I have one 128 now, and 60 clones are rooted beautifully at day 11 while the other 60 clones in that machine look like shit and have pulled about 10 out that had rotten stems inside the machine and the top of the plant was dying and falling over.

I am fresh out of things to think i can do to make this any better other than ProMix and MaxiGro as I have done it that way for years with pretty much 100% success cloning in my legal, medical grow.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!! Thank you in advance

Make sure they are pliable and bend easy before you take them and disregard or at least scar the brittle ones,take your clones on a waxing moon and make sure you have a very mild feed. You can always try the idione method as described in M Botany. JMO