clones in coco drooping yellow leaves

[hyposomniac]

from your base nutes you get ppm of NPK CA mg of 91-28-91-57-7.6
typical calmag adds 50ppm cal when used at 1ml/L, not sure how much you are using.
Those ratios look good but the numbers are too low..
As others have mentioned, your pots are way too big. Those plants should be in a 1 to 2 gallon pot.
Multifeeding like you are, you should get about 25%+ dry back before the next watering, no way you are getting that.
I would replant into smaller containers.

 

[OG_NoMan]

from your base nutes you get ppm of NPK CA mg of 91-28-91-57-7.6
typical calmag adds 50ppm cal when used at 1ml/L, not sure how much you are using.
/QUOTE]

Hey hyposomniac How did you get/calculate the nutrient profile? This is something that I could never wrap my head around to figuring out. I ask because I am running a somewhat custom nute mix but would love to know the real numbers instead of just guessing, watching the plants, adjusting.... If I was to give you the products and amounts I use per gallon could you give me this same breakdown? Would happily take it to private messaging if you prefer. Thanks for any and all help.

 

[Absolem]

Personally I think this is the easiest nutrient calculator to use. It's towards the bottom of the page. Just simply plug in the numbers on the nutrient bottles you use and the calculator will give you the elemental ppm's you are looking for.

https://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fo...s/profiles.htm

 

[SuperBadGrower]

Its so simple. High ppfd needs high temperature for metabolism and """""""high"""""" EC to support all the processes that happen in the plant

Maybe you should have a look at the EC for tomato or cucumber growing
since weed is also a high uptake plant, although many on the forums are hilariously in denial about this

lets see... I wonder if there are some high accumulating plants............... hmmmmmmmmmmm.........

Broccoli: 2.8-3.5 EC
cabbage. 2.5 to 3 EC
Tomato: 2 to 4 EC with assload of K
Cucumber. Greenhouse cucumbers are a heavy-feeding crop. Complete nutrient solutions with an electrical conductivity (EC) between 2.0 and 3.0 mS/cm

Hmm. No this cannot be. I am not attempting to grow in a high performance situation like a greenhouse at all. I think weed is more like.......
Lettuce. Grown at 1.2 to 1.5 EC


2nd piece of the puzzle is that metabolic processes work best between 25-29 C give or take
if you hit the plant with intense light but the temp is too low for metabolism it cant be metabolized and problems occur

Light, temperature, elements, the holy trinity

 

[SuperBadGrower]

OP I just read your ppfd was 1500 ppfd with 900 at the edges
an HPS at proper distance barely scratches 900 ppfd anywhere
*µmol/s

This is another piece of the puzzle. most information that remains and is parroted online was about growing plants in hps lights that deliver 600-800 PPFD average to a canopy depending on bulb type and setup

May I welcome you to the 2.5-3 EC club. Your yields will be bountiful and your leaves will shine with high BRIX

of course HPS growers never had issues with leaf temperatures. it might be attributed to the shining light that doesn't works unless you heat some shit to 300 degrees celsius

 

[sjk90]

from your base nutes you get ppm of NPK CA mg of 91-28-91-57-7.6
typical calmag adds 50ppm cal when used at 1ml/L, not sure how much you are using.
Those ratios look good but the numbers are too low..
As others have mentioned, your pots are way too big. Those plants should be in a 1 to 2 gallon pot.
Multifeeding like you are, you should get about 25%+ dry back before the next watering, no way you are getting that.
I would replant into smaller containers.

I give them GH calmag 4,6ml a gallon that's 0,3 EC.

They're at the end off 4rd week off flower so I'm not replanting them in smaller containers I think this will only do more damage by now.

They're not getting 25% dryback, if I'm looking at the growing medium volume 15 liters x 0,25% = 3,75 liter dryback. I feed them 2 times a day and get around 14% dryback after each feeding, so I only need to feed them once a day to get 25-30% dryback?

It sounds like a lot en they're getting way to dry, I thought you should never let coco dry out too much?

OP I just read your ppfd was 1500 ppfd with 900 at the edges
an HPS at proper distance barely scratches 900 ppfd anywhere
*µmol/s

This is another piece of the puzzle. most information that remains and is parroted online was about growing plants in hps lights that deliver 600-800 PPFD average to a canopy depending on bulb type and setup

May I welcome you to the 2.5-3 EC club. Your yields will be bountiful and your leaves will shine with high BRIX

of course HPS growers never had issues with leaf temperatures. it might be attributed to the shining light that doesn't works unless you heat some shit to 300 degrees celsius

The problems/ burned leaf tips started after the EC started rising to around 2,0 while I was giving them 1,5 EC so I can't imagine giving them 2,5+ will solve it. I'm now at EC 1,05 and runoff is EC 1,00 still see burned tips but I believe at a slower progression.




To be honest I really don't know what to do, I see and read so much conflicting information online about growing in coco.
Never let it dry, let it dry out between feedings, feed low don't go over 1,0 - 1,2 EC in flower, you should pump them full with high EC, pot size etc.

I never had all these problems in soil or rockwool and I'm not sure if I should do another grow in coco again, it's a shame because I see many beautiful grows and big yield's in coco grows online.

 

[jackspratt61]

Try higher base nute/ca ratio.

 

[Absolem]

To be honest I really don't know what to do, I see and read so much conflicting information online about growing in coco.

We all have felt your pain into the coco journey. My one piece of advice would be find ONE person who you trust with your grow. DM them and let them have full control of your grow for one cycle.

Peace.

 

[Virgin1]

I always let them dry out when I transplant to let the roots search for food then as they fill the pot I water more often when fully rooted I don’t let them dry out to much if that happens I get salt build up and things start to go down hill I do give a good feed every week where I get plenty of run off to keep things in check I feed at 1.6-1.7 ec and I mini flush when run off go’s over 2.0 ec and they look fine no burn no discolored leafs if ur using a good quality nutrient with everything in the right ratio u shouldn’t have any deficiency’s unless u have a salt build up or u have over watered an under developed root mass ,

 

[sjk90]

Gone back to 1 feeding a day for a week now, doesn't seem to matter. Burn is still progressing they also get EC 0,95 now for a week runoff still come's back higher around 1,10. I can's imagine I need to feed them even lower than EC 0,95 but the buds won't grow, they're now at day 1 of week 6 en buds are small/ seems to have stalled, normally they're 2, maybe 3 times bigger by this time.

Btw I don't think the pot size and to many watering's is the problem, a friend runs the same clone, same nutrients in a smaller room with more and smaller plants in 5gallon pots, feeding one's a day. He's two weeks in to flower running EC1,8 and they're thriving. Only difference no co2 and canna coco coir.

Try higher base nute/ca ratio.

They look pretty (dark) green so I'm not sure if this will fix it but I can't think of anything else I could try so maybe i will start feeding them EC2,0 ?

We all have felt your pain into the coco journey. My one piece of advice would be find ONE person who you trust with your grow. DM them and let them have full control of your grow for one cycle.

Peace.

I think coco is a massive pita, this is my second messed up grow in coco, to bad but I'm going back to rockwool I think. I had some great grows in rockwool flakes ebb en flo and thinking of trying rockwool hugo block's for my next grow.



So here are a couple pics, you can see the burnt edges and leaf tips and the small leafs in the top getting pale/ yellow.

What do you guys think should I feed them even less or try feeding them higher, EC2,0 maybe?

 

[weedobix]

I certainly wouldnt go up in nutes, not with that tip burn and dark clawing i can see.

With leds i notice some plants are not too happy, and have to brought on slowly to go to higher intensities . Just recently i light shocked one of my kosher kush (which some phenos are prone to) and it never recovered the whole grow and yielded badly, it would of taken too long to wean it back to health under low wattage and nutes and then bring it onto higher.

It could be the brick of course, i only use bagged premade now after some bad experiences with bricks.

These days i recycle my coco over and over, i dont even ph or ec anymore i just dry the rootball and crumble them into a pot and stuff a clone in and add nutes (i know the rough values by ml per litre)

 

[Virgin1]

If the yellowing is on the tops only then I’d be looking at the led as the cause ur nutes can’t be causing the burnt tips with the ec ur running and ur run off is low so can’t be salt build up , could u turn off the co2 and dim the light to see if they improve ? Do u have a light meter to see what umol there getting ?

 

[Three Berries]

If the yellowing is on the tops only then I’d be looking at the led as the cause ur nutes can’t be causing the burnt tips with the ec ur running and ur run off is low so can’t be salt build up , could u turn off the co2 and dim the light to see if they improve ? Do u have a light meter to see what umol there getting ?

Do you think just a high CO2 level would do this?

 

[sjk90]

I certainly wouldnt go up in nutes, not with that tip burn and dark clawing i can see.

With leds i notice some plants are not too happy, and have to brought on slowly to go to higher intensities . Just recently i light shocked one of my kosher kush (which some phenos are prone to) and it never recovered the whole grow and yielded badly, it would of taken too long to wean it back to health under low wattage and nutes and then bring it onto higher.

Maybe your right and they're messed up from light shock. Veg and 1ste week flower the light was at 75%- 750watt no co2, second week I added the co2 and light to 100% - 1000watt, around 1500 umol. Thought they could handle it with co2 maybe I was wrong. I had the light on full power for 1,5 week and then back to 750w but the burnt tips and edges still progressed, but maybe the damage was already done by that time.

If the yellowing is on the tops only then I’d be looking at the led as the cause ur nutes can’t be causing the burnt tips with the ec ur running and ur run off is low so can’t be salt build up , could u turn off the co2 and dim the light to see if they improve ? Do u have a light meter to see what umol there getting ?

I use my apogee meter, the light is at 750watt and I get between 1100 and 900 umol edges a bit lower. The co2 is at 1000ppm.
The yellowing is only the small leaves at the tops, the burnt leaf tips and edges is all over the plant, even the lower parts that only receive around 500 umol.


Burnt tips and edges are still progressing some leaves also curling down now buds also looking stalled, or maybe growing very slowly but no way the size they should be at this time, they need 4 more weeks flower.

 

[weedobix]

they do look quite toxic, personally i would flush the shit out of them and then add some light nutes and lower the amount of light

 

[Virgin1]

I’ve never run co2 so I can’t help u in that part but I run led and I can’t get over 900 umol with my apogee meter I start low in veg like 400 umol then when I flip i give them a couple days then turn it up to 600 umol ish then I work up to 800-900 depending how they look then back off at week 6-7 I keep my temps higher like 85-86 f and try keep in range with a vpd chart and that seems to stop any problems they look healthy all the way through right to the end if I run the lights at 100% they look terrible from week 4

 

[Three Berries]

Most houses in the winter will have a CO2 of +1000ppm or higher. More mammals and newer the construction will see higher readings.

 

[f-e]

I think my latest efforts have disqualified me from answering anything. However, burnt tips are not just over feed. The lack of K will burn tips, and we have seen that lack.

At this point, they have stopped feeding. They were taking the food, now they are not. I'm monitoring the same thing, and seeing it in other peoples grows, as I am here. It seems very few people are watching though, so I'm unsure if it's your root system failing or just normal. I read various texts about loading plants up in veg and transition, as they struggle to feed on some things in bloom. I can't be more specific, but for one, calcium becomes harder to take in, and only half that in the final product is taken as the flowers grow. Half must be present already. Which is odd, as it's not mobile. I struggle to make a lot of sense from it as yet. I believe K is hard to take, so should be supplied in decent amounts. This whole idea of not eating rings true over decades of growing, though I didn't keep notes. Towards the end of transition they seem to eat anything and everything, then they just stop. It seems. Though I must really get some peer feedback on this, from people that actually watch. I know I'm not alone in stopping it, but people that don't see it are not going to be talking about it. People that do see it may not recognise it. I used to think I had buggered the roots from the few days they ate heavily.
Most commercial bottle calendars have us pushing up the feed, at this time I see them stop eating.
I must stress... I can't fucking grow. I used to be world standard, but I'm close to quitting now. That's why I'm seeing these signs. I'm really watching closely.

 

[f-e]

Incidentally, I just lined up 3 similar plants. One got a 40% strength feed. One a 100% strength. The third a 160% strength feed. All feeds added on top of a 1ml per liter calmag dose per liter of water. I use Magne-cal so that's 32ppm Ca and 12ppm Mg. Unfortunately it's also 26ppm of N, and my 40% feed is just 52ppm, so I have increased N 50% by adding that calmag, giving 78ppm N which is not balanced well.

I'm doing this as I just changed feed, and I'm finding out what do to with it. It's canna and they don't seem to publish where the Ca is. Someone found it in the coco feed, but I'm in terra