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Clone top part of the plant

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Strudel, here is how I do it (count the nodes):

1. The leafs at the bottom 2 nodes are trimmed off right up to the stem.
2. The 2 top nodes with nice sized fan leafs count, but the 1-2 tiny developing nodes at the very top do not count.
3. I trim off about 30-50% of each leaf and nip the tip of the each tiny new growth top leaves (this way I now every leaf with a scissor trim were "pre clone leafs", all leafs without a scissor trim are "post clone" leafs).
4. Stem is cut 45 degrees with razor blade about 1/2" below bottom node.
5. Water soak for 2-4 days (water is about 2" deep).
6. Hormex dip (2 bottom nodes submerged for 60 seconds)
7. Stem is inserted in the rooting cube such that the bottom node is completely covered and the 2nd node rests at or slightly above rooting cube surface. When I transplant, the 2nd bottom node is eventually covered and becomes a source for an extra set of surface roots.

I use the small "micro-tip" Fiskar scissors to snip my cuttings, which have a 6" length. Most cases, for the top to have 4-5 fully developed nodes, it will need to be about 4-6". Hmmm, how convenient--my target cutting needs to be about the same length as my scissors. I can do this super stoned and not fuck it up...lol!

Now...how soon can you top? IMO, always leave behind no less than 5 complete node sets (if from seed, first 3 pointed leaf set is node #1--single pointers don't count in my book). So at a minimum the plant will need to show about 9-10 nodes (5 + (4 or 5)) before I snip--gotta leave 5 nodes behind.

For cloning trees (thick stems--you know the ones as big as your baby finger), I found beer cups filled with moistened Promix BX work great. Place the cups inside a 5 gallon bucket and those cheap clear shower caps with elastic bands are perfect covers for the bucket tops. I usually make sure 2-3 nodes are submerged in the Promix. Add a bit of water to the bottom of the bucket to increase humidity.

I use the dome in my routine as "insurance". It provides me with higher humidity when lights are off, prevents air from the many fans to blow directly on the cuttings, and helps keep my DIY promix rooting cubes from drying out (I can easily go 2 weeks without the need to moisten the root cubes). The domed clone tray is placed on the floor under MH lights, right beside the 5 gallon container plants. Every time they were under T5s the leaf tips fried (probably higher UV as the fluorescent lamps are much closer than the MH lamps) and the domes had less humidity. When a spot in the corner on the floor works perfect, why not?...lol. Go figure!
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Oh yeah, when I do the water soak, I use a single 23w CFL 6500k bulb that is about 32" above the cuttings (no dome) and on 24/7. No matter if they soak 3 days or 7-10 days (don't change water neither).

For water soaking, this simple setup works perfect for me: Standard cloning/propagation tray holds the water and the celled tray insert flipped upside down (tiny holes up) holds the cuttings...but the tray insert needs to be shortened in length and width (remove one row from the end and another row along the width is the trick). The 50 count insert is the one I use and end up with 36 cells (9 x 4---instead of 10 x 5). For cloning, the same shortened insert holds my DIY rooting cubes...I place cuttings in every other cell (14-16 cuttings per tray). No crowding in my house...and no touchee the plastic dome, lol.
 

Strudel

Member
Final cloning..

Final cloning..

So total 4 clones! 2 honey bananas/ 2 8 ball kush
3 of them are placed in little plastic glasses with RO water, one of them is inside a root riot placed directly in the bottom of the mini greenhouse...

My question :can i try to root at least one of them in RO water or is better normal water?

Are you sure i should not change water and leave the cup with the same water till rooting?

I want to try rockwool so my question is should i put rockwool in water PH 5,5 for some hours before putting my clone inside?(cause their ph is around 8)

Using root riot which is the best water PH to prepeare them to put clone inside? A normal 6,3 is ok?

And finally witch PH should have the water you use to mist and the water you add to the bottom of the minigreenhouse when is getting dry?6,3 is ok?

In your opinion should i use rockwool? Root riot? Or let them placed in little glass with the same water till they make roots? And the water RO or normal water? And which Ph ?

I know guys iam boring but is my second clone experience!
 

Strudel

Member
New photos

New photos

I will try to put new photos
 

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DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
Strud,

Many years ago I did a test of "pre-soaking" that included all the usual suspects and combinations of: potassium silicate, seaweed extract, Hormex, Clonex, H&G Root Excelurator & Oliva's (free samples), urea, aspirin, coconut water, aloe vera, and bark (leachate of sorts after soaking orchid rooting bark overnight) and combinations that included potassium silicate, seaweed extract or aspirin paired with some of the other ingredients. Tests included using 3 water sources: tap water, filtered water and distilled water (RO equivalent). I used 5oz plastic cups with 3 cuttings in each cup, 50 cups with 150 cuttings total.

The best overall results came from plain everyday tap water (with chlorine). The worst were those that included bark. Water and liquid seaweed was good, but also bad--as many cuttings turned to mush before the others. Surprisingly the potassium silicate specimens took much longer to show any root sprouts. I was surprised to discover all specimens that included tap water faired better than those with filtered and distilled water. Head scratcher.

Of course the more things I combined (liquid seaweed, potassium silicate, and Hormex) the worse things became. Too much of a good thing I guess...or too many cooks in the kitchen.

I also did tested various rooting mediums using the best 5 solutions from the above experiment (perlite, orchid rooting bark, promix, 50/50 combinations of promix + bark, promix + perlite, bark + perlite, and Root Riot cubes as my "control"). Surprisingly the best was orchid bark in any water (no difference between tap, filtered or distilled). The problem was transplanting the cutting without damaging the roots. Cups filled with loose bark offer very little structure to support the cutting--as compared to Root Riot cubes. But root sprouts occurred in just a few days using pure bark as compared to week or two for the other mediums.

So if anyone could master a technique to transplant a cuttings from wet bark, they will be weeks ahead of most everyone else.

Probably the reason I do not change my water is because the propagation trays hold about a gallon of water--with a maximum of 36 stems; not a very high "stem to water ratio". I imagine if you crowded a dozen or so cuttings in a 5 oz cup, you might need to change the water 2x a day.

When examining the water, if I saw anything floating with my naked eye--then I would change the water.

The reason I suggest pre-soaking in tap water is the minute amounts of chlorine in tap water are just enough to keep bacteria in check thus preventing mushy stems. At least that is the story I am sticking with, lol.

I don't have my notes but water soaking in all three water types generated roots sprouts. Tap water happened to be better even after 3 weeks soaking--and a water change once a week, no mushy stems. Stems soaking in distilled water after 3 weeks eventually became mushy (no traces of nutrients? no chlorine?).

Regarding Rockwool. I know many people that use it, love it and would never change. Unfortunately, I am not in that camp. Not comfortable of "over watering" a grow medium.

Root riots are made from bark, which is probably why they work so well (25 cents each), but not as good as my DIY Promix root cubes (less than 1 cent each). My objective is get the cutting from "plant" to "soil" as soon as possible (shortest time between snip and transplant), and so far the combination of "water soaking" and using "promix" as the rooting medium gets me there in about 2 weeks, with a consistent 100% success rate.

Hope this helps. Try a few variations on your own--you might discover what works better for you.
 

ptyred

New member
any luck? im interested as im about to top 4 of my plants my first time and I dont know if i should try and root them... or just save the cubes for bottom clones.
 

GoatCheese

Active member
Veteran
any luck? im interested as im about to top 4 of my plants my first time and I dont know if i should try and root them... or just save the cubes for bottom clones.

Well it depends how do you wanna grow the plants from there on. Cloning the top will ofcource "top" the plants, so they will grow wider
..If you clone some of the lower side-shoots, the plant will continue to grow looking more normal (christmas tree shape).


If you'll cut the top off, there will be more stress for the plant, but how much stress depends on how much of the top will you cut off (=half of the plant or just the top, if grown in small pots) and how root-bound the plants are in the pots they're sitting in = being root-bound will slow down growth and HEAVILY topping such a plant will ofcourse create more stress.


Both ways will work (cloning a top or side.-shoot) it just depends what will work for you and your grow room.
:)
 
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Strudel

Member
Ok two days ago i saw my first two roots from the honey banana , i already trasplant it..and as was already yellow will little leaves...seems to me in any case is surviving...will post photos in few days..in any case roots start growing.... Now iam waiting for the others 3 ....

And this one was a top part of the plant...ok so it took something like two weeks... Already thought was dead...
 
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