Chem Dog look out there's a new kid in the garden!

[SOTF420]

Should have kept that male.....

 

[Blanco.]

Lmao, i think he gets it now. You cant just create a elite clone only strain, some cuts just became it because theyr so damn good. None of the people who created any thought of doing it, it's not a plan, it just happens.

 

[reservationlabs]

Ok so how can it be hermie stock if I found a male? If the female kicked out male flowers and pollinated itself or a plant close by those seeds would be female.

That statement is very untrue. Even the best breeders whom are now only making 100% Fem Seeds still get a male to show up within seed batches (just go to any breeders page that has Fem Seeds and look at the complaints). We cannot control nature as we are simply man and a product of nature ourselves. S1's will indeed produce full on male plants it is just that it will produce more females and hermi's then it will males.

 

[Gene-weaver]

That statement is very untrue. Even the best breeders whom are now only making 100% Fem Seeds still get a male to show up within seed batches (just go to any breeders page that has Fem Seeds and look at the complaints). We cannot control nature as we are simply man and a product of nature ourselves. S1's will indeed produce full on male plants it is just that it will produce more females and hermi's then it will males

someone give me an AMEN

 

[reservationlabs]

Thundurkel,

One thing that I would like to state in here is that I in no way want to deter you from anything that you set out to do. In this world there are always people telling someone else what they can and cannot achieve. I do not believe in doing that. I look at it like this. "Without a dream, what do you have in life"? You have to dream to reach any goal.

Also with that said. I have had some great successes with creating and breeding strains. NORTHERN DREAMS and Arizona Iced Tea have come out to be great projects that I have created. I do have some terrible failures of which I will list bellow:

Thaigooey (Thai x Afgooey) the resulting beans grow lanky and have hermi issues thus they will never see the light of day.

Royal Queen (Granddaddy Purple x Northern Dreams) the resulting beans grown beautiful purple and dark dark green, thick cola plants that taste like pure trash. The taste will make you puke. I am actually going to work on trying to improve the taste on this.

Thai (100% Pure Thai) the resulting beans throw no pure males. Not even one. And hermi females are common. I have spent years and years and years on this and it has become a waste of time. I am going to pick up on it years down the road when I have more time.

Brown Lemmy (I will keep the genetic make up secret) the resulting beans grow thick cola, 1 main stem plants that have no smell when growing, turn dark brown when dry (like some bammer), smells like hay, but the high will take you there man. This plant will have you soaring. It is uplifting, clear, no ceiling. Thing is that I can't get anyone to even take any out of a bag and roll a joint up just by looking at this stuff. No one at all based on looking at it wants to break it down and smoke it. Because it is so brown they automatically think it is bunk (bammer) and will pass it over.

Edit: I wanted to add the Trainwreck S1's because while they are not my strain they are my favorite smoke. I love smoking the Trainwreck, but my S1's throw nanners. They throw them early on some plants and them them late on other but they throw them. I grow these every run just for my own personal smoke. I love this stuff but will never let someone else grow them and go through what I go through just to have this smoke.

That is a lot of failures that I have for "2" strains that I have created that are keepers. Years and years of work for "2" solid strains (minus the S1's of Elites that I make. They aren't mine so I can't claim them).

So keep "creating". "Create". Make something of your very own. But remain dedicated. Imagine if you "created" something that was all your own and pushed it with the belief that you have with this Oregon Purple that is someone elses creation. If you pushed something you "created" that was decent you could be the next Arjan and Franco (you all market like crazy and don't back down no matter what anyone has to say).

 

[whiterasta]

Thundurkle, Your plant is a cross between an Oregon Purple called Nightshade and likely Oregon Grape from a big O/D grow near Roseburg. The Nightshade genetics are definately present in the plant you posted and I know the strains were grown together and sent south.
It will likely produce a very floral resinous mid grade bud with a light relaxing buzz.Cool temps will bring out the color.You can check for the Nightshade genes by dropping the night temps to around 40F. If the plant starts pumping anthocyanins you can be almost positive I am right about the heritage.
WR

 

[burn586]

That looks a lot like bcbd's purps or mendo purps. Almost indentical actually.

 

[Thundurkel]

Here's my daily reading! Everyday I read this dip shits!!! I know what I'm doing...

Here's my daily reading! Everyday I read this dip shits!!! I know what I'm doing...

Variety Stability
Ed Rosenthal



"Stable" and "unstable" are often used to describe characteristics of varieties. When I've asked marijuana growers what this means, they usually discuss plants, that like chameleons, change with time, location, or some other environmental condition.
The definition that breeders use for stability has to do with the variety, rather than the plant. Imagine a field of crops that grow in uniform rows, such as corn. Each of these plants, which were grown from seed, looks almost identical to the rest. What do we know about it? The plants could be a stable variety or an F1 hybrid. Stable varieties have a homogeneous gene pool, they are very close genetically. A true F1 hybrid plant is a cross between two stable varieties.All the new plants have received similar genetics. As a result, the plants are almost identical.

Landraces
In nature, landraces~that is, plant populations that have grown in a specific physical environment for many generations~are usually homogeneous in tropical areas. The reason is that these regions typically have consistent weather from year to year. The varieties that fall into this category are equatorial sativas and their progeny including Hazes, Brazilians, Colombians, Central Africans and other landraces that grow between the equator and 20 degree latitude.
In temperate and mild climates, the weather is more variable~one year it's rainy, the next it's sunny. Plant populations are more heterogeneous in these regions because this increases their ability to deal with variable weather. Depending on the conditions, some plants will thrive while others are more stressed. Because the weather differs from one year to the next, the heterogeneity allows some plants from the same gene pool to do well while others struggle. Which plants thrive and which plants experience stress depends on their compatibility with that year's weather patterns. How can these plants adapt to varying conditions, in contrast to their homogeneous cousins? Heterogeneity is a result of having different alleles, different versions of genes. Since the plants are pollinating each other, even alleles that are not beneficial in a given year are carried forward. Landraces that originate in temperate areas are found between the 25th and 30th paralles. They include Afghanis, Indicas, and Lebanese, Moroccan, and Mexican strains. Only when the weather pattern remains consistent for three or four years it will become apparent that the plants are becoming homogeneous.

True Breeding Strains
All modern marijuana strains are progeny of landraces. For instance. Skunk#1 is a combination of Oaxacan, Columbian Gold (probably Santa Marta Gold) and Afghani. The Skunk#1 breeder developed the F1 hybrid, and then followed artistry with more by making Skunk#1 into a true breeding strain. Creating a trued breeding strain requires a keen eye, nose and head in selecting parents for the subsequent crosses.
The theory is that by selecting from a smaller and smaller population of plants with similar characteristics, the variation in alleles between plants will eventually become very small, resulting in a true breeding strain. Techniques used to achieve this include inbreeding, that is, breeding sibling plants; backcrossing, which is crossing a plant with one of a previous generation; and self crossing, or crossing a plant to itself using induced hermaphroditism.
What does all this mean to the home gardener contemplating buying a packet of seeds? A true breeding strain can be very useful to people who plant seed to harvest bud. Conventional farmers use true growing seeds for the same reason. All the plants have the same characteristics and are ready at the same time. These strains are appropriate for the grower who wants a consistent and uniform crop.

The Advantages of Unstable Strains
Gardeners who buy seeds to choose clone mothers have a different set of goals. They have additional concerns beyond the yield they will get from the first trial of garden seeds. These gardeners are involved in a selection process. They're looking for one exceptional plant that stands out from the rest in some way to carry their garden forward. When this is a part of the gardener's goals, s/he is better off using F2 hybrids or unstable varieties. Plants grown from unstable seeds will exhibit some variation, which allows the grower to select the best one for his cannabis preferences and gardening goals. There are several different kinds of unstable varieties: F2 Hybrids, Partially Inbred, Four-Way Crosses, and Hidden Recessive.

F2 Hybrids
When two stable varieties (P1) are crossed, the generation hybrid (F1) is uniform. Not so when the F1 generation is crossed to itself. Each F1 plant contains a combination of genes from each parent, with random combinations of alleles. When F1s are crossed amongst themselves, these random combinations may allow the plants to exhibit qualities that would otherwise be recessive. F2 plants usually exhibit various combinations of the original two P1 parents. This may provide the grower with a lot of choices regarding growth habits and psychoactive qualities.

Partially Inbred
It requires six or seven generations of inbreeding to develop a variety that breeds true when it is crossed to itself. It also requires skill and talent, as well as clear goals. When the goals deviate, previous work may be rendered obsolete. Without skill at selecting crosses, the goal can never be reached. Even more pressing, when the market calls, breeders often offer varieties that haven't been completely refined. While this is not desirable for gardeners planning to grow a crop from seeds, it offers the gardener who is choosing clone mothers many opportunities.

Four-Way Crosses
Sometimes breeders cross two pairs of inbred lines to make two different F1 hybrids. Then the F1 hybrids are crossed together. Because there are so many combinations of alleles possible, and because the genes are so mixed up, it may take eight to ten generations to achieve a true breeding variety. Usually breeders release the new cross after five or six inbreeding crosses and then continue to refine the cross as they are selling seeds. As a result the Four-Way you bought a few years ago may look somewhat different than the one you buy this year.

Hidden Recessives
Once in a while a variety will be offered that comes in two versions of phenotypes. The notes will state that most of the plants will have a particular characteristic, but a small minority of the plants, usually one-quarter, one-sixth, or one-eight of them, exhibit a different characteristic. It could be something as inconsequential as leaf size, but sometimes the two versions of the plants are dramatically different. What's happening here is that the minority version carries recessive alleles of a single or several genes. They are expressed only when there is no dominant allele in the pair. For example, two F1 hybrids have both a dominant allele (A) and a recessive (a). When they are crossed, the statistical outcome is one AA place, two Aa plants, and ond aa plant. In the three plants with a A in the mix (the AA and the two Aa's), the dominant characteristic will present. Only the aa will exhibit the recessive characteristic. When recessive characteristics show up, it's an indication that the strain has not been "cleaned" of the recessive genes.
Gardeners have lots of choices. Not only are there hundreds of varieties, but they come either as F1 hybrids and true breeding strains, which produce nearly identical plants, or as F2 and only partially inbred varieties, which produce a range of similar plants. No matter what gardening goals you may have, there are a bounty of good selections available.


and then if you want to think I still don't know shit the book left out Ruderalis genes aka Auto Flowering which you do not want to mess with unless you are trying to have a plant that you can not make a mom out of because it flowers under 24hrs of light from seed.....

Read up and learn something and you are welcome for the Ed Rosenthal lesson that I typed word for word out of The Big Book of Buds 3 enjoy

 

[Lapides]

I'm gonna tag this thread.

Not because I find it informative. But for the laugh I get every time I read something new here.

 

[Thundurkel]

Thundurkle, Your plant is a cross between an Oregon Purple called Nightshade and likely Oregon Grape from a big O/D grow near Roseburg. The Nightshade genetics are definately present in the plant you posted and I know the strains were grown together and sent south.
It will likely produce a very floral resinous mid grade bud with a light relaxing buzz.Cool temps will bring out the color.You can check for the Nightshade genes by dropping the night temps to around 40F. If the plant starts pumping anthocyanins you can be almost positive I am right about the heritage.
WR

That's cool as fuck to me I do think I have a better than mid grade cut here though and it just might finish in 7 weeks under CFLs by the looks of it!!! Now if that's not something special I quit and give up on cannabis and will grow poppy fields and go in the opium trade lol J/K but seriously as far as temps go my cab where the 3 ladies are growing at around 10 plants per sq ft stays at 80-85 and this gal is pushing out purple calyxes in week 4 and 5 under fluoros no less? That's amazing to me because I tossed my SR71 Purple Kush cuz it vegged sooooo slow and I had to grow it out to 12"-14" before flowering it just for it to finish at 17"-20" and didn't turn purple till week 7 and the calyxes turned purple from the outside I've never had a strain push out new purple growth! I will search Nightshade since I have heard of it before and I'm going to germ 2 more of the seeds and see what I get from them crossing my finger for a bad ass purple male with thick stalks to add some thickness and color to my Super Silver Haze which comes from a mother who's seed was cracked in the early 90's and it's a Mr Nice version that gets top dollar over sea's and you can read about it in the April 2009 High Times on page 52 and can't wait to run some of it in my tent under HID lighting and when you see the colas you'll understand lol But yea the bitch falls all over herself and a West Coast Purple Haze would be nice don't you think?

 

[Brastaman]

i will not let my passion blind me from those things in front of me. My vision is long and thus brittle but everyday my open eyes allow me to gain strength and overcome the weaknesses that are human. I strive not for perfection, not for better or worse, but for what is my destiny.

I admire your determination, aspirations, and hope. The end may justify the means but only as you continue to learn will the means justify the end.

 

[BKindication]

Variety Stability
Ed Rosenthal



"Stable" and "unstable" are often used to describe characteristics of varieties. When I've asked marijuana growers what this means, they usually discuss plants, that like chameleons, change with time, location, or some other environmental condition.
The definition that breeders use for stability has to do with the variety, rather than the plant. Imagine a field of crops that grow in uniform rows, such as corn. Each of these plants, which were grown from seed, looks almost identical to the rest. What do we know about it? The plants could be a stable variety or an F1 hybrid. Stable varieties have a homogeneous gene pool, they are very close genetically. A true F1 hybrid plant is a cross between two stable varieties.All the new plants have received similar genetics. As a result, the plants are almost identical.

Landraces
In nature, landraces~that is, plant populations that have grown in a specific physical environment for many generations~are usually homogeneous in tropical areas. The reason is that these regions typically have consistent weather from year to year. The varieties that fall into this category are equatorial sativas and their progeny including Hazes, Brazilians, Colombians, Central Africans and other landraces that grow between the equator and 20 degree latitude.
In temperate and mild climates, the weather is more variable~one year it's rainy, the next it's sunny. Plant populations are more heterogeneous in these regions because this increases their ability to deal with variable weather. Depending on the conditions, some plants will thrive while others are more stressed. Because the weather differs from one year to the next, the heterogeneity allows some plants from the same gene pool to do well while others struggle. Which plants thrive and which plants experience stress depends on their compatibility with that year's weather patterns. How can these plants adapt to varying conditions, in contrast to their homogeneous cousins? Heterogeneity is a result of having different alleles, different versions of genes. Since the plants are pollinating each other, even alleles that are not beneficial in a given year are carried forward. Landraces that originate in temperate areas are found between the 25th and 30th paralles. They include Afghanis, Indicas, and Lebanese, Moroccan, and Mexican strains. Only when the weather pattern remains consistent for three or four years it will become apparent that the plants are becoming homogeneous.

True Breeding Strains
All modern marijuana strains are progeny of landraces. For instance. Skunk#1 is a combination of Oaxacan, Columbian Gold (probably Santa Marta Gold) and Afghani. The Skunk#1 breeder developed the F1 hybrid, and then followed artistry with more by making Skunk#1 into a true breeding strain. Creating a trued breeding strain requires a keen eye, nose and head in selecting parents for the subsequent crosses.
The theory is that by selecting from a smaller and smaller population of plants with similar characteristics, the variation in alleles between plants will eventually become very small, resulting in a true breeding strain. Techniques used to achieve this include inbreeding, that is, breeding sibling plants; backcrossing, which is crossing a plant with one of a previous generation; and self crossing, or crossing a plant to itself using induced hermaphroditism.
What does all this mean to the home gardener contemplating buying a packet of seeds? A true breeding strain can be very useful to people who plant seed to harvest bud. Conventional farmers use true growing seeds for the same reason. All the plants have the same characteristics and are ready at the same time. These strains are appropriate for the grower who wants a consistent and uniform crop.

The Advantages of Unstable Strains
Gardeners who buy seeds to choose clone mothers have a different set of goals. They have additional concerns beyond the yield they will get from the first trial of garden seeds. These gardeners are involved in a selection process. They're looking for one exceptional plant that stands out from the rest in some way to carry their garden forward. When this is a part of the gardener's goals, s/he is better off using F2 hybrids or unstable varieties. Plants grown from unstable seeds will exhibit some variation, which allows the grower to select the best one for his cannabis preferences and gardening goals. There are several different kinds of unstable varieties: F2 Hybrids, Partially Inbred, Four-Way Crosses, and Hidden Recessive.

F2 Hybrids
When two stable varieties (P1) are crossed, the generation hybrid (F1) is uniform. Not so when the F1 generation is crossed to itself. Each F1 plant contains a combination of genes from each parent, with random combinations of alleles. When F1s are crossed amongst themselves, these random combinations may allow the plants to exhibit qualities that would otherwise be recessive. F2 plants usually exhibit various combinations of the original two P1 parents. This may provide the grower with a lot of choices regarding growth habits and psychoactive qualities.

Partially Inbred
It requires six or seven generations of inbreeding to develop a variety that breeds true when it is crossed to itself. It also requires skill and talent, as well as clear goals. When the goals deviate, previous work may be rendered obsolete. Without skill at selecting crosses, the goal can never be reached. Even more pressing, when the market calls, breeders often offer varieties that haven't been completely refined. While this is not desirable for gardeners planning to grow a crop from seeds, it offers the gardener who is choosing clone mothers many opportunities.

Four-Way Crosses
Sometimes breeders cross two pairs of inbred lines to make two different F1 hybrids. Then the F1 hybrids are crossed together. Because there are so many combinations of alleles possible, and because the genes are so mixed up, it may take eight to ten generations to achieve a true breeding variety. Usually breeders release the new cross after five or six inbreeding crosses and then continue to refine the cross as they are selling seeds. As a result the Four-Way you bought a few years ago may look somewhat different than the one you buy this year.

Hidden Recessives
Once in a while a variety will be offered that comes in two versions of phenotypes. The notes will state that most of the plants will have a particular characteristic, but a small minority of the plants, usually one-quarter, one-sixth, or one-eight of them, exhibit a different characteristic. It could be something as inconsequential as leaf size, but sometimes the two versions of the plants are dramatically different. What's happening here is that the minority version carries recessive alleles of a single or several genes. They are expressed only when there is no dominant allele in the pair. For example, two F1 hybrids have both a dominant allele (A) and a recessive (a). When they are crossed, the statistical outcome is one AA place, two Aa plants, and ond aa plant. In the three plants with a A in the mix (the AA and the two Aa's), the dominant characteristic will present. Only the aa will exhibit the recessive characteristic. When recessive characteristics show up, it's an indication that the strain has not been "cleaned" of the recessive genes.
Gardeners have lots of choices. Not only are there hundreds of varieties, but they come either as F1 hybrids and true breeding strains, which produce nearly identical plants, or as F2 and only partially inbred varieties, which produce a range of similar plants. No matter what gardening goals you may have, there are a bounty of good selections available.


and then if you want to think I still don't know shit the book left out Ruderalis genes aka Auto Flowering which you do not want to mess with unless you are trying to have a plant that you can not make a mom out of because it flowers under 24hrs of light from seed.....

Read up and learn something and you are welcome for the Ed Rosenthal lesson that I typed word for word out of The Big Book of Buds 3 enjoy

They're not trying to prematurely label this exceptional plant as an "elite clone" when in all probability, the seeds for this F1 phenotype are fairly widely available from a large outdoor grow sent all down the coast.. With the exception of a few, most of us here aren't trying to insult your intelligence, gardening skills, or ambitions as a breeder. But we'd like you to understand that sheer willpower won't get you anything, you need to work for it. Please do not ask to be heralded on the level of a grower who brought us one of the best strains there is, regardless of the wack shit you may have tried. Chem's work gave us OG Kush and Sour Diesel after the Chemdawg. So until you cross this Oregon Grape Nightshade and create giants like that, be humble.

 

[Gene-weaver]

thats right bk!!! and im rather sick to death of this trying to make you understand thunderkle, people would love to see you do some breeding me especialy! but half witted attemps are not my style, i am a strong believer that a dream takes a man to the top of the mountain and ambition is a very good quality to have, id much rather see something that you have worked on tbh and in all fairness, i believe you could do a fairly good job with a little help here and there, but this plant is not your strain you have spent no effort on this strain and for that the turning wheels a karma can not pay you gratitude! go out a bacome that breeder, just dont expect that breeding comes as simply as we would all wish,

as for ed r ive tryed his super bud beans about 2 years ago a friend brought them!

they was mere shite! if thats what he calls stable my friend then he is a doughnut! get a diffrent book than his because i tell you i have no respect for the man myself he proved to me that he does not have a clue ( or his drive is only monetary gain ) i cant stand people who are in this game merely for money! cannabis is the pinicle of spiritual evolution! the love i share for evey girl in my garden is beyond some peoples belief!

all the best im oudy i just hope to see something thats yours and not another rip off hack

regards
the weaver

 

[SOTF420]

Back in the day, I had a strain that was done flowering in 5 weeks (35 days). Not 6 weeks or 7 weeks, 5 weeks and I mean done. It was a hugh yielder and frosty as hell, smelled like bubblegum fruit. It was also almost impossible to clone and the high was trippy, scary & paranoid and would cause those heart racing freak outs for some people. Needless to say that eventually went with the wind. Flowering time is surely not everything Thundurkel so don't pay so much attention to that because those fast flowering strains usually have underdeveloped resin glands & thc that has not fully matured and will surely affect the quality of the final product. That is most with the exception of Sweet Tooth! Now there is something elite.

 

[Thundurkel]

Ok so I have some new pics I took yesterday on day 32 of flower and this girl is more developed than my Thunder Goo that's at day 35 and that finishes in 8 weeks so I'm curious how this girl is gonna look at 7 weeks cuz they are getting fatter everyday! You'll see how many trichs are straight cloudy this early...

here's a shot of a bottom nug

this is my lady who got too tall and got her fan leaves burnt that's why they are clipped in some places.. This one is just kicking out the purple calyxes like crazy! I love this strain!!!

macro shot

The first plant shown in the thread getting more mature by the day

another macro

macro shot of lower bud

bunch o macro shots from day 32 of my so called non special cut.. yet she stands out in a cab full of elites!! As long as I get no nanners and the smoke is potent this bitch is a keeper!

look how developed these lower buds are this girl seems to be a week ahead of strains started days apart ....

Let the hating begin again....

 

[SOTF420]

Looks really good man. Can't wait to see the finished buds.

 

[Thundurkel]

Wow I for surely thought more people would be saying something now that we are further along in flowering... Fingers crossed that she's stoney as fuck

 

[blynx]

The closeups are nice, how about a shot or two of the whole plant so we can see the overall structure/growth?

 

[Gene-weaver]

no one sait this isnt a special plant! and by all means its looks the dogs! what we are saying is it isnt your work so it aint yours to be paraiding like you own the genetics like you created them thats the point!

 

[Thundurkel]

getting new batteries today...

Gene bro I still don't see how Chem can call those his then you just wont change my mind dude found some seeds in a bag of weed he bought then grew out said seeds and now they are his strain? Come on dude what is he THE ONLY guy allowed to do this? Is it that big a deal hey Blynx what do you think about this? You are one of the ones I looked up to when I got here so curious how you feel about all this?