Cheap Nutrient Line for Commercial and Home Grows?

[BillFarthing]

essential gold calmag from elevation organics doesn't have any N

Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Lignosulfonate, Magnesium Sulfate, Humic Acid

Calcium carbonate isn't soluble. I'm assuming they are using Leonardite as a slurry to keep it suspended in the bottle. This product is intended for soil, not hydroponics or foliar.


The choice of calcium lignosulfate is really interesting. It is just complexed (not chelated), but that's the first time I've seen it used like this.

 

[H G Griffin]

A member on another forum I frequent has been working on this spreadsheet calculator. It has a few common nutrient lines already built in, so you just plug in your ratios and hit the results tab to see the PPMs. You will need a spreadsheet program like excel or openoffice calc for windows or Numbers for OSX.



https://www.filedropper.com/nutrientcalculatorv207

Very much appreciated!

 

[indocult]

Reply to First Post

Reply to First Post

Hey great info. I've been preaching Jack's for a while, really solid stuff.

Would you recommend using the Bio-stimulant that you mentioned in a DTW Coco/ small pot automated feeds style setup?

I've been running just Jack's for a while, I cut out the silica and Cal mag even. Kind of wanted to change it up and see if I can get better quality with appropriate times nutrients/additives.

 

[BillFarthing]

Hey great info. I've been preaching Jack's for a while, really solid stuff.

Would you recommend using the Bio-stimulant that you mentioned in a DTW Coco/ small pot automated feeds style setup?

I've been running just Jack's for a while, I cut out the silica and Cal mag even. Kind of wanted to change it up and see if I can get better quality with appropriate times nutrients/additives.

High P salt or rooting hormone in the cloner
Jack's/MB or another complete salt veg/transition/flower
Ca and perhaps cytokinin dominant kelp at flip
Bloom booster week 4-6 of flower
Mr. Fulvic start to finish drench in soil/soil-less (including coco)/hydro
Insecticidal soap/ Mr. Fulvic foliar for IPM veg/transition
Silica if you get broken branches as long as you don't lock out Ca veg/transition

That's it for flowers!

 

[Junior Capsula]

Thanks for the link Kalopatchkid/HG

 

[xavier7995]

Hey great info. I've been preaching Jack's for a while, really solid stuff.

Would you recommend using the Bio-stimulant that you mentioned in a DTW Coco/ small pot automated feeds style setup?

I've been running just Jack's for a while, I cut out the silica and Cal mag even. Kind of wanted to change it up and see if I can get better quality with appropriate times nutrients/additives.

Sounds like we ventured down the same path for nutrient education. I am pretty happy with my simple a+b...but well it can always be better and it's a boring hobby if you don't fidget with stuff.

Just chiming in again to say I very much appreciate the posts all around. My seasons coming to an end for the year sadly, but going to give some stuff a solid look for next year. Looking forward to seeing what Mr fulvic brings to the table and will research a variety of humic/fulvic products over the winter.

Ps. Screw this early snow and hard freeze, hope stuff makes it as I was planning to run through December. A look out at the greenhouse does not look promising, will see how stuff is once its above freezing during the day and I feel alright opening it up.


Edit: any info out there on what sort of ph range becomes acceptable with the use of mr fulvic? My tap come out in the low 7's, nutes dont really move it a noticeable amount and I have to ph down to around 6. I give a few points on each side of 6 as being fine...but any sort of info on how much I could get away with there. It would be really great to not fidget with ph anymore.

 

[BillFarthing]

Edit: any info out there on what sort of ph range becomes acceptable with the use of mr fulvic? My tap come out in the low 7's, nutes dont really move it a noticeable amount and I have to ph down to around 6. I give a few points on each side of 6 as being fine...but any sort of info on how much I could get away with there. It would be really great to not fidget with ph anymore.

Fulvic chelates nutrients and makes them bioavailable when they are out of pH range. So much so that if using salts, it requires reducing fertilizer dosage 10-25%.



Acceptable pH range is 5.5-6.5. My water out of the tap is 7.5 pH from the dissolved calcium and magnesium carbonate. Jack's and fulvic puts it at 6.2, which is perfect and I've never had any issues.

 

[indocult]

Thank you

Would you recommend just using Ca in hydro vs the flowering cal mag as well?

Do you lower the base when using MKP?

 

[BillFarthing]

Thank you

Would you recommend just using Ca in hydro vs the flowering cal mag as well?

Do you lower the base when using MKP?

It's your call on the Ca. I like Metalosate at transition, even though it bumps up the N a bit. It keeps the tops from yellowing at flip.



Growmore cal-mag has no N and gives the ladies an excellent structure going into flower. Because kelp is organic based, it has the potential to create biofilm with UC's and drippers. It is not an issue with soil/soilless.

 

[indocult]

Thank you again!
About to read up on metasolate, haven't heard of it before.
Honestly, using only Jack's I've been able to grow better flower than like 98 % of dispensary stuff, just been running it for years and ready to try additives again.
I've used MKP before, flowers got bigger but less dense so the Yield stayed about the same. I'm thinking I timed it wrong or used too much.

 

[eyesdownchronic]

are there any iron chelate products that you would reccomend?

 

[BillFarthing]

are there any iron chelate products that you would reccomend?

PlantProd micronutrients and Mr. Fulvic both have chelated iron. I think the latter has 6 types of chelated iron.

 

[Flippr]

Thanks Bill, great info!

 

[Legalcdn]

Bill, thanks for sharing your wisdom. The last time we wrote, i worked the megacrop and lowered the P and achieved my best grow.. thanks. Indoor i managed 14oz with 2 plants. I shifted to jacks with the 3-2-1 formula. I found the current crop is seeing MG defiencies but i corrected with foliar.

If i choose something else besides mr. Fulvic, what should i be focusing on with similar products?

Megacrop (5-12-26) went to a 2 part almost exactly jacks.

 

[BillFarthing]

Bill, thanks for sharing your wisdom. The last time we wrote, i worked the megacrop and lowered the P and achieved my best grow.. thanks. Indoor i managed 14oz with 2 plants. I shifted to jacks with the 3-2-1 formula. I found the current crop is seeing MG defiencies but i corrected with foliar.

If i choose something else besides mr. Fulvic, what should i be focusing on with similar products?

Megacrop (5-12-26) went to a 2 part almost exactly jacks.

Most cannabis growers use way too much P, which has to be flushed out to prevent flowers from tasting harsh and burning black. At the end of the day, the plant takes the nutrients it needs. You can't force feed a plant.

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I'm sure you didn't expect your question to be a very involved answer concerning fulvic acid. It's a very complicated substance. It's millions of years of organic compounds broken down and concentrated and is very hard to quantify.

Fulvic acid is short-chain organic acids. It is light in color, orange or gold and soluble at all pH levels. It is immediately bioavailable for use in hydroponics, soil and foliar usage. Humic acid is long-chain organic acids. It is darker and only soluble at an alkaline pH. It contains carbon, isn't immediately bioavailable and is only suitable for long-term soil building.

Most fulvic acid listed on fertilizer labels use outdated V&B (Verpleugh and Branifold) testing. This percentage includes the inactive ash content. California and Oregon use even older and inaccurate CDFA testing. CDFA discards the fulvic acid content and only lists the humic content. ISO and LAMAR fulvic acid testing is slightly more up to date and accurate, but the same batch can vary by 10% in test results.

Let's take a couple commercial products as examples. BioAG Ful-Power is 8% V&B, but only 0.15% ISO/LAMAR of actual fulvic acid. Ferti-Organic Fert-Fulvic Plus is 90% V&B, but only 14% ISO/LAMAR fulvic acid. The percentage listed on the label is not what is in the bottle or bag.

Leonardite is a very poor source of fulvic acid. It is a byproduct of the coal and gas industry. It is harvested by strip and blast mining and is very bad for the environment. It is extracted by harsh hydroxide chemical extraction. The extra potassium from the the extraction process can lock out calcium in plants. Shale fulvic acid can be water extracted and is much more environmentally responsible.

Because it is millions of years of organic matter being broken down, some sources of fulvic contain amino and organic acids that are beneficial for plants.

TL;DR: The best sources of fulvic acid are:

1. Tested with ISO/LAMAR, not V&B or CDFA
2. Shale, not Leonardite based
3. Water, not hydroxide or chemically extracted
4. Contain fulvic (not primarily humic), amino and organic acids

 

[Legalcdn]

Now that is a great reply. Its strange, i was looking at the AGBIO ful-power before i read this. I guess their TM-7 is measured the same way (V&B).

Thanks for taking the time to share.

Life is learning.

 

[Biologist]

I was interested in the Ful-Power as well since it is cheaper (about half the price) than the AGT-50 but if you actually do the math it comes out as way more expensive since you have to use so much more of it.

AGT-50 is 1 mL per gallon and Ful-Power is recommended at 30 mL per gallon.

 

[BillFarthing]

I was interested in the Ful-Power as well since it is cheaper (about half the price) than the AGT-50 but if you actually do the math it comes out as way more expensive since you have to use so much more of it.

AGT-50 is 1 mL per gallon and Ful-Power is recommended at 30 mL per gallon.

I've talked to that company, very knowledgeable, but they only do wholesale.



The thing about Ful-Power is that you are paying to ship water. Seems pretty wasteful to me.

 

[CannaRed]

Hey bill,
What about molybdenum?
Ive seen it in RapidStart, but that's about it.
I don't need alot. Like .1-.3ppm

 

[BillFarthing]

Hey bill,
What about molybdenum?
Ive seen it in RapidStart, but that's about it.
I don't need alot. Like .1-.3ppm

That seems like a lot! I can tell you a bunch about Fe, but micros like Mo and ratios involved aren't something that I know a lot about. It can be toxic to ruminants. It only is used at 0.8% (0.008) in most formulations. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.