What's new
  • As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.

Chanting Growers Group

Status
Not open for further replies.

PassTheDoobie

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Faith and Reason

Faith and Reason

Faith, or belief, and reason are commonly seen as being fundamentally in opposition to each other. Many people regard any kind of belief--and religious belief in particular--as some sort of paralysis of the faculty of reason, an intellectual crutch. Currently, however, this presumption of a sharp opposition between belief and reason, which has been the hallmark of modern thought, is being reexamined.

Twentieth-century philosophers such as Ludwig Wittgenstein and Josie Ortega y Gasset have pointed out that each of us lives, acts and thinks within a system of beliefs that is largely unconscious but without which we would be incapable of any thought or action. "Our beliefs are already operating in the depths of our lives when we begin to think something," writes Ortega y Gasset. Reason, in this sense, is founded on belief. If belief is the foundation of life, we don't really have a choice of whether to believe or not. We can choose, however, what to believe, what the substance of our faith will be.

Within the Buddhist tradition, the relationship between faith and reason has been the subject of sustained inquiry since ancient times. While this tradition has always held that the Buddha's enlightenment cannot be grasped or expressed in its entirety by reason or language, Buddhism has consistently held that reason and language should be highly valued.

While the Buddha's enlightenment may transcend the realm of reason, it is not irrational, nor does it resist rational examination. Faith in the Buddha's teaching is in fact the basis for a mode of intellectual examination which enlists not only analytical capacities but also seeks to develop the intuitive wisdom found in the deepest spiritual strata of the human being. Learning and knowledge can serve as the portal to wisdom; but it is wisdom that enables us to use knowledge in the most humane and valuable way. The confusion of knowledge and wisdom, arguably, is at the root of our societal distortions.

Nichiren likewise developed and presented his teachings very rationally. He is well known for his scholarship and his willingness to debate. Many of his important writings take the form of a dialectic question and answer in which doubts are presented, responded to and resolved.

Sraddha, prasada and adhimukti are three Sanskrit terms translated in the Lotus Sotra as "faith" or "belief." Sraddha, defined as the first stage of Buddhist practice, means "to arouse faith" and also "to possess curiosity about." The term thus includes the meaning of a sense of awe or wonder that seems to be at the root of all religious sentiment.

Prasada expresses the idea of purity and clarity. It could be said that, from the perspective of Buddhism, the proper purpose of faith is to cleanse the mind in order to enable our inherent wisdom to shine forth.

Adhimukti literally means intent, that is, the orientation of one's mind or will. This is the mental attitude of deepening one's understanding, cultivating and polishing one's life toward perfecting the sublime state of prasada. Faith thus purifies reason, strengthens it and elevates it and is an engine for continuous self-improvement. Daisaku Ikeda has defined faith as "an open, seeking mind, a pure heart and a flexible spirit."

The above terms can be contrasted with bhakti, another Sanskrit term for faith. Bhakti, originally meaning "to become part of," is a faith associated with a practice of surrender to--and unification with--a transcendent deity. This term is seldom, if ever, used in Buddhist texts.

The modern age seems convinced that intellect is an independent faculty, operating independently from feeling or belief. Yet it is becoming clearer that many trends, such as efforts to exert technological mastery over nature, rest on highly subjective beliefs or value judgements.

What is called for now is new unification of belief and reason encompassing all aspects of the human being and society, including the insights achieved by modern science. This must be an attempt to restore wholeness to human society, which has been rent asunder by extremes of reason artificially divorced from belief and irrational religious fanaticism.

This synthesis must grow from a dialogue based on mutual respect. Both sides must approach this dialogue, not with the desire to establish dominion over the other, but with a spirit of learning, of mining deeper and richer veins of truth. This will only be possible if all participants keep firmly in view the goal of human happiness. Does a particular position, approach or belief advance the human condition, or does it drive it back? Only on this basis can a dialogue between faith and reason produce true and lasting value for humankind.

(from: http://www.sgi.org/english/Buddhism/more/more04.htm )
 

PassTheDoobie

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
"To illustrate, if a spark as small as a bean is set to a single blade of grass in a spring field of a thousand square ri thick with grass, it becomes in an instant an immeasurable, boundless blaze. ... Be firmly convinced that the benefits from this will extend to your parents, your grandparents, nay, even to countless living beings"

(The Offering of an Unlined Robe - The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, page 533) Selection source: SGI President Ikeda's speech, Seikyo Shimbun, January 11th, 2006
 

SoCal Hippy

Active member
Veteran
"In China there is a waterfall called the Dragon Gate. Its waters lunge a hundred feet, more swiftly than an arrow shot by a strong archer. It is said that thousands of carp gather in the basin below, hoping to climb the falls, and that any which succeed will turn into a dragon. However, not a single carp out of a hundred, a thousand or even ten thousand can climb the falls, not even after ten or twenty years. Some are swept away by the strong currents, some fall prey to eagles, hawks, kites and owls, and others are netted, scooped up, or even shot with arrows by fishermen who line either bank of the wide falls. Such is the difficulty of a carp becoming a dragon."

"Attaining Buddhahood is no easier than for men of low status to enter court circles or for carp to climb the Dragon Gate."

Quotes from Dragon Gate Gosho
http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gosho/DragonGate.htm
 
I wrote ...yeah believe it or not I wrote to President Ikeda and he replied to me that the best way to learn is to grasp one word at a time and maybe other related dis, dat, and de utter tings(I threw that in-LOL)......look Pass I respect your sincererity, but let's go to layman's terms cause you'll catch a bigger audience that way.....BUT I think ya have a homeboy who is your translator...but not sure-- :wave:
 
Last edited:

PassTheDoobie

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Giant, welcome at last to the conversation...

Giant, welcome at last to the conversation...

Dude! You have me on the edge of my seat. Though the size of the audience is of no consequence to me, could you explain what you mean by "laymans terms?" I don't solicit the thread's readership; I have only invited maybe a handful of people via PM in the entire year and a half it's been going. I actually do this for certain people; because I know they are always reading what gets posted and I know they sincerely appreciate the effort that I make to share with them--and if they ever go, so will I.

But you completely lost me on the "BUT I think ya have a homeboy who is your translator...but not sure-- " thing. What the heck are you talking about Brother? If you respect my sincerity, then understand that I have a smile on my face when I ask that. As much time as I put into this thing, I would love to have someone tell me how to make it better without turning it into some sort of SGI discussion meeting--because it isn't.

There is no emotion that can be conveyed consistently and accurately. I have come to the conclusion that the safest thing that can be done is to do my best to help make available to others the direct teachings of the Daishonin. If learning about Buddhism, it’s history, the players, the terms and definitions, and so forth, doesn’t generate dialoge among the readers, I really don’t care. Anyone that wants to ask a question may do so.

I have no recollection of anywhere a question asked respectfully was not answered respectfully. The translations I use and source material are all from the SGI, so whom might my homeboy be? I gotta tell ya, the “laymans terms” and “homeboy…translator” has me grinning, shaking my head, and wondering.

Please enlighten me.

Thanks!

T
 
Last edited:

Babbabud

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Appreciation

Appreciation

I for one appreciate PTD's post more then can be put into words. Each morning when I get up I read the post here and use it for my daily encouragement to keep me going and inspired throughout my day. Daishonins Buddhism has taught me how to respect and the importance of respecting all things. PTD brings us these daily post without expecting anything in return and does it as a totally selfless act to help bring ppl happiness and understanding. I say thankyou PTD for caring about us all so much. If there is a tranlator around it must be nam myoho renge kyo... because the more i chant the clearer the Daishonins teachings become .
Nam myoho renge kyo !!
 

SoCal Hippy

Active member
Veteran
A life lived without purpose or value, the kind in which one doesn't
know the reason why one was born, is joyless and lackluster. To just
live, eat and die without any real sense of purpose surely represents
a life pervaded by the world of Animality. On the other hand, to do,
create or contribute something that benefits others, society and
ourselves and to dedicate ourselves as long as we live up to that
challenge -- that is a life of true satisfaction, a life of value. It
is a humanistic and lofty way to live.

from SGI-USA
"For Today & Tomorrow"
 

SoCal Hippy

Active member
Veteran
"The sutra states, "If there are those who hear the Law, then not one
will fail to attain Buddhahood." This means that, even if one were to
point at the earth and miss it, even if the sun and moon should fall
to the ground, even if an age should come when the tides cease to ebb
and flow, or even if flowers should not turn to fruit in summer, it
could never happen that a woman who chants Nam-myoho-renge-kyo would
fail to be reunited with her beloved child. Continue in your devotion
to faith, and bring this about quickly."

(WND, 1092)
The Gift of Clear Sake
Written to the lay nun Ueno on January 13, 1281
 

SoCal Hippy

Active member
Veteran
Everyone at some time suffers from illness in one form or another. The
power of the Mystic Law enables us to bring forth strength to overcome
the pain and suffering of sickness with courage and determination. The
Daishonin writes: "Nam-myo-renge-kyo is like the roar of a lion. What
sickness can therefore be an obstacle?" (MW-1, 119).

from SGI-USA
"For Today & Tomorrow"
 

SoCal Hippy

Active member
Veteran
"Therefore, when you chant the daimoku of this sutra, you should be
aware that it is a more joyful thing than for one who was born blind
to gain sight and see one's father and mother, and a rarer thing than
for a man who has been seized by a powerful enemy to be released and
reunited with his wife and children."

(WND, 143)
The Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra
Recipient unknown; written on January 6, 1266
 

PassTheDoobie

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
The Selection of the Time / WND pg. 538 (continued)

The Selection of the Time / WND pg. 538 (continued)

Question: You say that during the thousand years of the Former Day of the Law scholars knew in their hearts that the truth of the Lotus Sutra far surpassed the teachings of the other exoteric and esoteric sutras, but that they did not proclaim this fact to others, merely teaching the doctrines of the provisional Mahayana. This may be the case, though I find it difficult to agree.

Around the middle of the thousand years of the Middle Day of the Law, the Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai Chih-che appeared. In the ten volumes or thousand leaves of his Profound Meaning, he discussed in detail the meaning of the five characters composing the title of the Lotus Sutra, Myoho-renge-kyo. In the ten volumes of his Words and Phrases, he discussed each word and phrase of the sutra, from the opening words, "This is what I heard," through the very last words, "they bowed in obeisance and departed." He interpreted them in the light of four guidelines, namely, causes and conditions, correlated teachings, the theoretical and essential teachings, and the observation (83) of the mind, once more devoting a thousand leaves to the discussion.

In the twenty volumes composing these two works, Profound Meaning and Words and Phrases, he likened the teachings of all the other sutras to streams and rivers, and the Lotus Sutra to the great ocean. He demonstrated that the waters that make up the Buddhist teachings of all the worlds of the ten directions flow, without the loss of a single drop, into that great ocean of the Lotus Sutra. In addition, he examined all the doctrines of the great scholars of India, not overlooking a single point, as well as the doctrines of the ten teachers of northern and southern China, refuting those that deserved to be refuted and adopting those that were worthy of acceptance. In addition to the works just mentioned, he also expounded Great Concentration and Insight in tenvolumes, in which he summed up the Buddha's lifetime teachings on meditation in the concept of a single moment of life, and encompassed all the living beings and their environments of the Ten Worlds in the concept of three thousand realms.

The pronouncements found in these works of T'ien-t'ai surpass those of all the scholars who lived in India during the thousand years of the Former Day of the Law, and are superior to the commentaries of the teachers who lived in China during the five hundred years preceding T'ien-t'ai. Therefore, the Great Teacher Chi-tsang of the Three Treatises school wrote a letter urging a hundred or more of the leaders and elders of the schools of northern and southern China to attend the Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai's lectures on the sutras. "What happens only once in a thousand years, what takes place (84) only once in five hundred years, has happened today," he wrote. "Nan-yüeh with his superior sageness, T'ien-t'ai with his clear wisdom - long ago they received and upheld the Lotus Sutra with body, mouth, and mind, and now they have appeared once again as these two honored teachers. Not only have they caused the sweet dew of amrita to fall in the land of China, but indeed, they have made the drums of the Law thunder even as far away as India. They possess the wonderful enlightenment that comes with inborn understanding, and their expositions of the sacred texts truly are unparalleled since the time of the Wei and Chin dynasties. Therefore, I wish to go with a hundred or more priests of the meditational practice and beg to receive the lectures of the Great (85) Teacher Chih-che."

The Discipline Master Tao-hsüan of Mount Chung-nan praised the Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai by saying: "His thorough understanding of the Lotus Sutra is like the noonday sun shining down into the darkest valley; his ex-position of the Mahayana teachings is like a powerful wind roaring at will through the great sky. Though the teachers of words and phrases might gather by the thousands and attempt to inquire into his wondrous arguments, they could never understand them all. . . . His teachings are as clear as a finger pointing at the moon . . . and their essence (86) returns to the ultimate truth."

The Great Teacher Fa-tsang of the Flower Garland school praised T'ien-t'ai in these words: "Men like Nan-yüeh and [T'ien-t'ai] Chih-che can understand the truth through intuition, and in practice have already ascended to the first stage of security. They recall the teachings of the Law as they heard them on Eagle Peak and present them (87) that way today."

There is an account of how the Tripitaka Master Pu-k'ung of the True Word school and his disciple Han-kuang both abandoned the True Word school and became followers of the Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai. The Biographies of Eminent Priests states: "When I [Han-kuang] was traveling in India together with the Tripitaka Master Pu-k'ung, a monk said to him, 'In the land of China there are the teachings of T'ien-t'ai, which are most suitable in helping distinguish correct from in-correct doctrines and illuminating what is partial and what is perfect. Would it not be well to translate these writings and bring them here to this (88) country?'"

This story was related by Han-kuang to the Great Teacher Miao-lo. When he heard the story, Miao-lo exclaimed: "Does this not mean that Buddhism has been lost in India, the country of its origin, and must now be sought in the surrounding regions? But even in China there are few people who recognize the greatness of T'ien-t'ai's teachings. They are like the people (89) of Lu."

Now if there had been any major treatises in India that could compare to these three works in thirty volumes by T'ien-t'ai, then why would the Indian monk have asked that T'ien-t'ai's commentaries be brought from China? In view of all this, how can you deny that during the Middle Day of the Law the true meaning of the Lotus Sutra was made clear, and that the widespread proclamation and propagation of its teachings was accomplished throughout the southern continent of Jambudvipa?

Answer: The Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai preached and spread throughout China a perfect meditation and perfect wisdom surpassing the lifetime teachings of the Buddha that had never been preached previously by any of the scholars in the fourteen hundred or more years since the Buddha's passing, that is, in the thousand years of the Former Day of the Law and the first four hundred years of the Middle Day. His fame even reached as far as India. This would seem to resemble the widespread proclaiming and propagating of the Lotus Sutra. But at this time an ordination platform of the perfect and immediate enlightenment had not yet been established. Instead, T'ien-t'ai's disciples followed the Hinayana precepts, which were grafted onto the perfect wisdom and perfect meditation - a rather ineffectual combination. It was like the sun in eclipse or the moon when it is less than full.

Whatever you may say, the time of the Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai corresponds to the period described in the Great Collection Sutra as the age of reading, reciting, and listening. The time had not yet come for broadly proclaiming and propagating the Lotus Sutra.


Notes:

83. The first guideline, "causes and conditions," is to interpret the words and phrases of the sutra in terms of the causes and conditions that prompted the Buddha to expound them; the second, "correlated teachings," to interpret the sutra's words and phrases in terms of the four teachings of doctrine and the five periods; the third,
"the theoretical and essential teachings," to interpret them in light of the theoretical and essential teachings of the Lotus Sutra; and the fourth, "the observation of the mind," to perceive the truth within one's own mind through the practice of meditation.
84. This passage refers to the Chinese maxim that a sage appears only once in a thousand years, and a worthy man, only once in five hundred years.
85. This statement appears in The One Hundred Records of the Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai, compiled by Chang-an, T'ien-t'ai's successor.
86. The Biography of the Great Teacher T'ien-t'ai Chih-che of the Sui Dynasty. Tao-hsüan (596-667) was the founder of the Nan-shan branch of the Precepts school.
87. The Essay on the Five Teachings of the Flower Garland School.
88. The story of Han-kuang, Pu-k'ung, and the Indian monk appears in The Sung Dynasty Biographies of Eminent Priests under the biography of Han-kuang (n.d.), who is counted among the six major disciples of Pu-k'ung.
89. On "The Words and Phrases." The people of the state of Lu failed to recognize the greatness of Confucius. Hence those who are not aware of the greatness of T'ien-t'ai's teachings are compared to the people of Lu.

(to be continued)
 

mrwags

********* Female Seeds
ICMag Donor
Veteran
My First Post Here

My First Post Here

The other night in chat I asked Mrs.Babba about chanting and she suggested I come here to look around and read. I at that time had told her that since coming here almost 2 years ago and taking up growing my life has changed for the better.

I've always tried to help others (being raised a Christian) but I have never until meeting some of you folks tried to do it Heart Mind Body And Soul expecting nothing in return. I have ALWAYS believed in the Karma thing but until now never really knew what it was all about as I said I simply wanted to try to help everybody.

My wife of 20 + years tells me I'm happier and more peaceful now the little things in life that used to bug the shit out of me no longer matter. I've come to realize that all we can do is TRY. Try to do our best at what ever it is but I still feel I'm missing something.

I will at this time ask no questions before I read this Book of a forum. BUT when I'm done some of you better expect some heart felt pm's because those of you who know me know that I only do thing's one way, whole heartly.

Thank's For Letting Me Get That Off My Chest
Mr.Wags
 

PassTheDoobie

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Woa mrwags, welcome to the conversation!

Woa mrwags, welcome to the conversation!

So Mrs.B has been doing shakubuku? Great, great, blow-your-mind good fortune to both of you. Your seeking spirit and her compassion to try and encourage you to chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is not by accident. Congratulations! You have both kept a promise from your past lives.

I am praying a good question-asker is going to come to the fore here at some point in time. We welcome dialogue. I hope no one misunderstood that comment a few posts ago. It's just that the time to do this is now. So I am still open to any suggestions on how the material covered can be delivered more effectively.

Go Bears!

T
 

PassTheDoobie

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
"A life of gratitude is beautiful. A life of ingratitude is shameful. Our attitude toward the debts we owe others for their kindness and support can have a decisive impact on the course of our lives."

SGI Newsletter No. 6702, SGI-EUROPE REPRESENTATIVES CONFERENCE—PART 2 [OF 2], Sharing the Philosophy of Human Revolution with the World, January 7th, 2006, translated Jan 14th, 2006
 
:wave: Pass the Doobie I meant no disrespect when I posted. You are a most invaluable and probably the one of the most important members to post on this thread that I've had the pleasure reading(did that sound right??).

What I meant was that explaining philosophical and/or opinions and concepts is great in the way you do it but I truly believe that most stoners or non stoners would tune out after a couple of pages......if the content was reduced to emphasize the point more clearly and concisely, the reaction would probably be....oh...heh, heh....yeah dude....I know what you're sayin now.....personally, I find what you've put on these pages fascinating and I've turned many times to this instead of other writings such as "The True Object of Worship" which I KNOW that YOU know.

As far as the translator remark I believe there was someone else and I apologize for not remembering his name--"vegas buddha" I believe and one other dude who was very dedicated to this thread. I've read perhaps the first 100 or so pages of this thread and I am probably missing a few other's that deserve attention so I apologize. These people approached explaining the philosophy of NSA in a "lite beer" or "Sensi Hindu Kush"approach...nothing overpowering or difficult or confusing and once again, this is NOT meant to reflect anything disrespectful because I have nothing but the utmost respect for you Pass the Doobie......thanks and may kosen-rufu become a reality in our lifetime. :wave:
 

PassTheDoobie

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Thank you dude for that clarification!!!

Thank you dude for that clarification!!!

So start doing your thing! I bow in obeisance to VegasBuddha, Avid Learner, and Southern Girl--all of whom no longer post here because of me. Without them this thread would not be this thread! Whether they will ever believe it or not, I sincerely chant for their happiness consistently every day. They never leave my prayers.

But here is the problem, I started the thread and feel a personal responsibility for it's content. If people want to express the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin in a "lite beer" or "Sensi Hindu Kush" approach, they have to do so responsibly. They can't make off-the-cuff comments that are in conflict with these teachings.

I never say a word about things that are reflected accurately, yet if you'll check ALL of these pages, I am aware of only ONE time that the person that expressed something that I felt was not in keeping with a correct understanding, responded to clarify my view as a misperception. The one time that such a response did happen, I qualified that the response only served to make my point, and poof, that person was gone.

If I’m too harsh I apologize. It serves no purpose for me to intimidate anyone. I always research my facts before I respond, or state myself as being of a certain “opinion based on experience.”

If everyone else would do the same, I would never have to be the ass-wipe I come off as being sometimes. That has been the most disappointing part of doing this from the beginning. If what one says is mistaken, and I know it is mistaken, the Daishonin’s teachings say I must confront the mistaken view. IT”S NEVER PERSONAL!!!

I’ve tried to make dialogue easier, but in an internet environment, that has been almost impossible. So help us giantman! I am going on vacation in two days. Please help me start getting people talking! I have to be careful how anecdotal I am to keep my security situation from being at risk.

I VERY MUCH RESPECT AND APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE!!!

T :wave:
 
Last edited:
I won't "start doin my THANG" dude because I won't allow people to think that I have the answers, which is why you had some probs at the beginning, but because I really believe that you know a lot of the avenues to the answers people seek, I think you are the very core of this thread....I'm sorry to hear that the people mentioned are no longer posting because they were good people.
 

PassTheDoobie

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Not more sorry than me dude, believe that. You have no idea how much anguish that fact has visited upon me. Partner, I am being absolutely sincere when I say "do your thing." Your Thang is my Thang. I welcome your help and input. PLEASE join the conversation.

I have never wanted to make people think I have all of the answers, because the process of seeking anuttara-samyak-sambodhi is an evolution in my opinion, based on experience. Like I said and say again, if I am mistaken, PLEASE correct such a mistaken view on my part. Frankly, it is one's responsibilty to do so.

However if something occurs like someone wanting to qualify an opinion of the meanings of the the characters on the Gohonzon, that is not in keeping with the Daishonin's own explaination, I'm going to say something about it. If someone posts the teachings of the Daishonin, I ask that they please proof read it and correct any errors. If someone professes to practice the Daishonin's Buddhism types Nam-myoho-renge-kyo in a post, I would ask that they please spell it correctly.

I consider such issues respect for the teachings. I apply them only to people who profess a relationship with the Gohonzon. I assume you are one of those people based on your letter to President Ikeda. I would assume you understand that this is not a difficult request. Some people respond to things and view them differently than others. I have never asked anything of anyone that I felt was beyond their capacity to understand. Nor will I.

I would hope that this understanding leads NO ONE to believe that I think that I have all the answers. Some answers are as simple to find as just reading the Daishonin's teachings and understanding the content in light of their historical and religeous context; and the definition of concepts and fundamental truths that they reveal.

But all I really want is for people to develop a relationship with the Entity of the Law, receive their Gohonzon, and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo for the rest of their lives.

Then everything else will work for them, no matter how they might view me.

Welcome aboard GM!

Thomas
 
Last edited:

Babbabud

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Welcome to the "Chanting Growers Thread" Giantmanbags. Great to have you join in the discussion. Hope to see you return!!
nam myoho renge kyo
 
I

indicalover

Yo Doob how are ya. I know I was supposed to stop by like 6 months ago, but better late that never. I am not all that vocal with things that I don't know a lot about. I would simply like to learn some things. Maybe improve my life a bit. So I will be checking this thread out more in the future. Peace
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top