Chanting Growers Group (2013-∞)

[SoCal Hippy]

“My mentor, second Soka Gakkai president Josei Toda, likened studying the Daishonin’s writings to the rigourous training of a master swordsman. He also warmly encouraged us to enjoy ourselves as we carry out our Buddhist practice, share Buddhism with others and engage in Buddhist study.

“He said: 'Why were we born? The Lotus Sutra speaks of this world as a place where living beings enjoy themselves at ease’ (LSOC 16, 272). We are here to enjoy our lives. When we have complete faith in the Gohonzon, life itself becomes enjoyable.’”

Daisaku Ikeda

 

[Weird]

The foremost treasure of sentient beings is none other than life itself.

--- https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/53

 

[Klompen]

What about the Buddhist growers who don't chant?

 

[Weird]

What about the Buddhist growers who don't chant?

Nichiren Buddhism specifically discards expedient means (provincial buddhist teachings) for the propagation of of the most profound of buddhist teachings as revealed in the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren has facilitated the practice of embracing and propagating the essence of the Lotus Sutra through the statement Nam Myoho Renge Kyo.

This does not mean past teachings are meaningless or valueless but rather they are incomplete and the teachings of the Lotus Sutra complete them to the benefit of those who practice and the environment they inhabit.

The teaching itself requires we focus on the Lotus Sutra exclusively so I ask kindly that this be observed for the benefit of all who have contributed.

Please do not feel unwelcome because it is quite the opposite but rather the nature of the Lotus Sutra as a complex treatise that requires practitioners request all other practices be left at the door. Have no fear, all beliefs and practices are reconciled quite gracefully through this practice as it has been the same teacher all along as revealed in the lifespan chapter.

I hope this helps.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

 

[Klompen]

I follow the Theravada path so the Lotus Sutra doesn't really register as Buddhism in my view. No hate, just my view. It is to Buddhism much like what Mormonism is to Christianity; a complete overhaul with little connection to the original source. Its a total redefinition of the entire concept of a "buddha". It seems to inspire positive feelings in you and I can't fault that. It would appear this thread is Lotus-specific. I was just trying to figure out if this was a general Buddhism thread or sectarian and your reply answers that so thank you. Have a good one.

 

[Weird]

I follow the Theravada path so the Lotus Sutra doesn't really register as Buddhism in my view. No hate, just my view. It is to Buddhism much like what Mormonism is to Christianity; a complete overhaul with little connection to the original source. Its a total redefinition of the entire concept of a "buddha". It seems to inspire positive feelings in you and I can't fault that. It would appear this thread is Lotus-specific. I was just trying to figure out if this was a general Buddhism thread or sectarian and your reply answers that so thank you. Have a good one.

The Lotus Sutra is the work of Shakyamuni Buddha. While I respect your interpretation please be fair enough to refrain from slandering it it based on assumption.


Nichiren for one did not make assumptions regarding different teachings but instead studied them extensively for comparative insight.

THERE are three categories of people that all human beings should respect. They are the sovereign, the teacher, and the parent. There are three types of doctrines that are to be studied. They are Confucianism, Brahmanism, and Buddhism.

Nichiren goes into great depths regarding the various teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha and their relative meanings. As you can see they are not limited to the sutras.



https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/148


A Comparison of the Lotus and Other Sutras

 

[Weird]

For simple edification for anyone who is reading and wants to the know the essence and agenda of Nichiren Buddhism:

To assist ALL beings HARMONIOUSLY reach their full Buddhist potential in this lifetime.

It is based on the final teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha who at the end of his life reveals:

A) his eternal nature

B) that all enlightenment to this point was facilitated by that eternal nature but in manners relative to the person and culture at the time and that there would be a time to shed relative vehicles for an absolute and universal vehicle, the Lotus Sutra whose essence is contained withing the chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

c) that up until the later day of the law teachings had to be relative (provisional) because humanity was not prepared to understand it from any other perspective yet, but knowing that this time would occur in the future planted seeds of absolute enlivenment within those provisional means.

d) It is the desire of Buddha to open the doors of Buddhism to all entities, the is no exception and exclusion.

This is revealed in both the expedient means and lifespan chapters of the Lotus Sutra and furthermore and in great depth by Nichiren in the writings of Nichiren.

Both Nichiren's writings and the Lotus Sutra are contained in the link below.

https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/

 

[Weird]

Question: In comparing the Former and Middle Days with the Latter Day of the Law, the first two were far superior in terms of both time and the people’s capacity. Why are these factors of time and capacity ignored in the Lotus Sutra, which refers exclusively to this age?
Answer: The Buddha’s intent is difficult to fathom. Indeed, I am unable to grasp it. We may attempt to understand, however, by taking the Hinayana sutras as a point of reference. During the thousand years of the Former Day of the Law, Hinayana was fully endowed with the three elements of teaching, practice, and proof. During the thousand years of the Middle Day, teaching and practice alone remained; proof no longer existed. In the Latter Day of the Law, teaching alone remains; neither practice nor proof exists. On examining this from the standpoint of the Lotus Sutra, we find that in the thousand years of the Former Day of the Law persons who possessed all three had most probably formed ties with the Lotus Sutra during the Buddha’s lifetime. They were born again in the Former Day and were able to obtain the proof of Hinayana through its teaching and practice. Those born in the Middle Day had not developed strong ties to the Lotus Sutra during the Buddha’s lifetime and were therefore unable to attain proof through Hinayana. They turned instead to provisional Mahayana and thus were able to be born in the pure lands of the ten directions. In the Latter Day of the Law, no benefit is derived from either Mahayana or Hinayana. Hinayana retains nothing but its teaching; it has neither practice nor proof. Mahayana still has its teaching and practice, but no longer provides any proof of benefit, either conspicuous or inconspicuous.
Furthermore, the schools of Hinayana and provisional Mahayana established during the Former and Middle p.400Days of the Law cling all the more stubbornly to their doctrines as they enter the Latter Day. Those who espouse Hinayana reject Mahayana, and those who espouse provisional teachings attack the true teaching, until the country is overrun with slanderers of the Law. Those who fall into the evil paths because of their mistaken practice of Buddhism outnumber the dust particles of the land, while those who attain the Buddha way by practicing the correct teaching are fewer than the specks of dirt that can be placed on a fingernail. At such a time, the heavenly gods and benevolent deities abandon the country, and only perverse heavenly beings and perverse demons remain, possessing the minds and bodies of the ruler, his subjects, and monks and nuns, and causing them to curse, revile, and heap shame on the votary of the Lotus Sutra.
If, however, in the time after the Buddha’s passing, a person renounces his attachments to the four flavors and three teachings, and converts to faith in the Lotus Sutra that is true Mahayana, the heavenly gods and benevolent deities, as well as the bodhisattvas numerous as the dust particles of a thousand worlds who emerged from beneath the ground, will protect him as the votary of the Lotus Sutra. Under their protection, he will [establish and] spread abroad widely throughout Jambudvīpa the object of devotion of the essential teaching, or the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo.
It was the same with Bodhisattva Never Disparaging, who lived in the Middle Day of the Law of the Buddha Awesome Sound King. He propagated widely throughout his land the teaching of twenty-four characters that begins, “I have profound reverence for you . . . ,” and was attacked with sticks of wood by the whole population. The twenty-four characters of Never Disparaging and the five characters of Nichiren are different in wording, but accord with the same principle. The end of the Buddha Awesome Sound King’s Middle Day and the beginning of this Latter Day of the Law are exactly the same in method of conversion. Bodhisattva Never Disparaging was a practitioner at the initial stage of rejoicing; Nichiren is an ordinary practitioner at the stage of hearing the name and words of the truth.11

--- https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/43

 

[Klompen]

The Lotus Sutra is the work of Shakyamuni Buddha. While I respect your interpretation please be fair enough to refrain from slandering it it based on assumption.

It is not my goal to slander anything. In Theravada tradition, a "Buddha" is one who achieves enlightenment without the precondition of having learned the Buddhist path from another. Those who achieve enlightenment via a teacher are arahants.

Considering the first parts of the Lotus Sutra weren't even written until the first century and the Buddha Siddhartha lived in the sixth century and spoke an entirely different language than it was written in; it seems inaccurate to attribute it to him(especially in light of the fact that he referred to himself as a "non returner").

Mahayana paths are essentially a completely different concept than "Buddhism" as taught by Siddartha. Their validity is a matter of opinion, but their historical origins of course is not.

Nichiren for one did not make assumptions regarding different teachings but instead studied them extensively for comparative insight.

I don't have any disagreements with that approach.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]THERE are three categories of people that all human beings should respect. They are the sovereign, the teacher, and the parent. There are three types of doctrines that are to be studied. They are Confucianism, Brahmanism, and Buddhism. [/FONT]

That's horrifying. Monarchs are a dangerous and regressive force working against the betterment of humanity. Nichiren's views on the political establishment of the region make me completely unable to accept his teachings as actual Buddhism.

 

[Weird]

This thread is exclusively for the propagation of the Lotus Sutra. You are challenging teachings you clearly do not understand but ignorance does not negate the result of karma which is acting as a distribution to an established practice.

Let me remind you that this sutra was written by the same very Buddha your tradition is built upon. It was written and taught at the end of his life as his most complex and valued teachings. In these writings the very comparisons of what enlightenment is to your school and all the various other schools are considered in great depth and detail.

I must ask, are you are threatened by the teachings of the very same Buddha you revere in that you feel it necessary to judge and discredit it before you bother to put in the time to understand it?

If you really want to educate the Votarys of the Lotus Sutra and Bodhisattvas of the Earth on the buddha's teachings I suggest you read them so we can have a conversation outside of this thread regarding the validity of what you learned.

If you want to understand how could enlightenment be layered over the existence of mankind let me remind you that children all must crawl before they walk and developmentally mankind has been encountering a like dynamic. The Buddha's ultimate teaching that reveals the middle way and teaches mutually possession of the ten realms is the teaching that will lead humanity to its full potential.

I welcome questions, comments or concerns about my own beliefs or the propagation of the Lotus Sutra at any time so please feel free to message me and I will be open minded to all communications but I will warn now that disruption to the propagation of the Lotus Sutra in this thread will not be tolerated by others that have vested interest.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

 

[Cvh]

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

 

[Klompen]

This thread is exclusively for the propagation of the Lotus Sutra. You are challenging teachings you clearly do not understand but ignorance does not negate the result of karma which is acting as a distribution to an established practice.

Let me remind you that this sutra was written by the same very Buddha your tradition is built upon. It was written and taught at the end of his life as his most complex and valued teachings. In these writings the very comparisons of what enlightenment is to your school and all the various other schools are considered in great depth and detail.

It was written by Chinese scholars 500 years after Buddha Siddhartha died. Whatever wisdom it may represent, its misleading people to teach that it was written by the same Buddha.

Also, the same Buddha we are referring to did not teach that karma works that way. It is not a magic power. Have you ever read the Pali canon? I highly recommend it if you would like to learn from an older source.

Anyway, like I said I was just trying to figure out if this was generalized Buddhism or only specific to Nichiren. Obviously only Nichiren views are tolerated here.

Oh and its such a low tactic to say that one can only disagree with a view because they "don't understand it".

 

[Babbabud]

Nam myoho renge kyo

 

[Weird]

It was written by Chinese scholars 500 years after Buddha Siddhartha died. Whatever wisdom it may represent, its misleading people to teach that it was written by the same Buddha.

Also, the same Buddha we are referring to did not teach that karma works that way. It is not a magic power. Have you ever read the Pali canon? I highly recommend it if you would like to learn from an older source.

Anyway, like I said I was just trying to figure out if this was generalized Buddhism or only specific to Nichiren. Obviously only Nichiren views are tolerated here.

Oh and its such a low tactic to say that one can only disagree with a view because they "don't understand it".

All of the buddha's teachings where originally oral and then written down

The Lotus Sutra presents itself as a discourse delivered by The Buddha toward the end of his Life. The tradition in Mahayana states that the Sutra was written down at the time of The Buddha and stored for five hundred years in a realm of nāgas. After this they were reintroduced into the Human realm at the time of the Fourth Buddhist Council in Kashmir. The Sutra's teachings purport to be of a higher order than those contained in the āgamas of the Sūtra Piṭaka, and that humanity had been unable to understand the Sutra at the time of The Buddha, and thus the teaching had to be held back.

and the lotus sutra has been determined to be derived from the same vernacular as the pali cannon.


since there are many schools and scholar that recognize this as the works of Buddha I suggest you take your opposition to the practice elsewhere since you are doing nothing but disrupting this thread based on assumption because obviously you have not done due diligence in studying the sutra we propagate here.



accusing this practice of misleading people with out an understanding thereof is slander and uncalled for an inappropriate


if that is the fruit of your practice I have no desire to share in it

 

[Weird]

The Basic Difference between

Nichiren Buddhism and Other Schools of Buddhism

Buddhism is generally classified into two main branches: Theravada and Mahayana. The name “Theravada” - or the “Teachings of the Elders” - is based on the early teachings of the Pali Canon. In many publications - this branch of early teachings of buddhism is called also Hinayana (Small Vehicle for attaining Enlightenment).

The other brach is Mahayana (Great Vehicle for attaining Enlightenment). Mahayana Buddhism shares similar beliefs with Theravada, but differs by introducing the concept of “Bodhisattva” - a stage of practice which leads to becoming a Buddha. The ‘possibility to attain Buddhahood through Bodhisattva way’ - is considered to be the central difference between the two branches.

The goal of Theravada teachings is to lead practitioner to become an Arhat (or sage, who can escape the cycle of rebirth). On the other hand, Mahayana teachings regards the cycle of birth and death as eternal and inescapable, hence the goal of practicing Mahayana is to lead practitioner to attain Buddhahood through practicing the Bodhisattva way. In other words, the aim of practice in Mahayana is to transform one’s life of sufferings into a life of enlightenment.

Examples of Mahayana schools of Buddhism are: Tibetan, Zen, Amida, and Nichiren Buddhism, each suggesting a different perspective on how to attain enlightenment:

1. [FONT=&quot]-[/FONT] Amida Buddhism teaches about the attainment of Buddhahood only after death.
2. [FONT=&quot]-[/FONT] Tibetan (Vajrayana) Buddhism incorporates Mahayana teachings with esoteric rituals of

pre-Buddhist “Bon” tradition - to aid in the process of awakening.

1. - Zen aims for gradual cultivation of insight through silent meditation, but with no emphasis

on setting a goal to become a Buddha.

1. [FONT=&quot]-[/FONT] Nichiren Buddhism is about the attainment of Buddhahood in the reality of daily life.

The reason for the diversity of Buddhist schools lies in the diversity of the Sutras they follow, and which differ markedly in their depth and capacity to lead people to enlightenment. Having a wealth of various Mahayana teachings, scholars of Buddhism were faced with the following question:


How to compare and classify the diverse teachings of the Buddha?

After studying and comparing the teachings of various sutras, Buddhist scholar Chih-i, known also as Tien-tai (538 - 597) established criteria to classify the depth and capacity of sutras, arriving to the conclusion that the Lotus Sutra - preached at the last period of the Buddha’s life - is the complete and final teaching of Buddhism.

The Lotus Sutra opens the way for all people to attain Buddhahood in their present body and their current circumstances. In essence, the Lotus Sutra harmonises and integrates all the previous teachings of the Buddha (both Theravada and Mahayana) and reveals the final Dharma.

.

 

[Klompen]

accusing this practice of misleading people with out an understanding thereof is slander and uncalled for an inappropriate


if that is the fruit of your practice I have no desire to share in it

Again, I was attempting to discern if other Buddhist paths were welcome here and you've made it very clear that any deviation from your approach to Buddhism is something like heresy. If that is the fruit of your practice I'm not interested in it either. I wish you well. If you wish to cease discussing this then lead by example. Otherwise, I'm quite willing to engage in a friendly debate without all the hyperbole.

 

[Weird]

Again, I was attempting to discern if other Buddhist paths were welcome here and you've made it very clear that any deviation from your approach to Buddhism is something like heresy. If that is the fruit of your practice I'm not interested in it either. I wish you well. If you wish to cease discussing this then lead by example. Otherwise, I'm quite willing to engage in a friendly debate without all the hyperbole.

This is not a debate, it is a thread where practitioners practice.


The essence of this practice is the reconciliations of all practices to the same shared reality. Previous practices are not invalid in a binary sense but relative in a developmental sense so embracing them detracts for the higher truth revealed by Buddha.


This is why it is disrespectful to question this practice here and why the practice itself calls for "sharp correction" of all detractors.


If you took the time to simply read the history of chanting Buddhism here all of this is discussed in detail and make an educated decision.



You are welcome to chant if you wish to practice Buddhism here and you are more than welcome to express any opinion to whoever you like outside of it.



This thread was not forced upon you and while the practice is open it still has its own tenants that practitioners follow for their own perceived benefit. I did not create the practice. I simply choose to follow it.


You observed that we obviously do this to our own benefit and no one questioned you of the benefit you get from your own practice yet you continue to question the validity of what you never study and judge a peaceful practice based on the reaction of your disruption.



How is it that this practice and practitioners are the antagonists?


At least if you tried it and explained why it you felt it failed you I could understand your agenda.

 

[Teddybrae]

Now, I know I am running the risk of being branded a Heretic ... but the most recent translations from Pali of Buddhist texts ... by Bachelor, an English person ... reveal that the Buddha rejected religion in his name and stated that Peace was only available to a Silent mind. Not a religious mind.

Listen ... I 'm not saying this to be argumentative ... you faithful can do what you want ... but faith is the brother of hopelessness ... and such Duality is absent only in Silence.

Yes, I know ... I 'll have to reference my claim. I 'm onto it and will post soon ...

 

[Weird]

that is all reconciled under one vehicle as revealed by the lotus sutra



you can come to understand it by practice, study and faith https://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/toc/ or simply study if you wish to rebuke what is taught but his thread is not for debating the validity of this practice by rather embracing it so please find another outlet

 

[Cvh]

Nam myoho renge kyo