What's new
  • ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!

Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

G

Guest

Day 11 @ 12/12:

0410081607a.jpg


0410081607b.jpg


400W CMH on 400W HPS HydroFarm ballast

House and Garden Aqua flakes A+B
Drip Clean
MultiEnzyme

GH Diamond Nectar
GH FloraBlend
GH Chi (Foliar)

FF Open Sesame
FF Big Bloom
FF Tiger Bloom
 
Last edited:
G

GanjaGoon

Member
FreezerBoy said:
My space is 22x29x54. I'm running a 250. While I can cool it with an inline it was at the cost of my stealth. My 150 HPS was cooled by a 76 cfm axial. It wasn't silent but, the noise was so perfect for a banged up freezer it may as well have been.

How important is stealth? If the grow is in a common room filled with visitors, 250 may be too big. If the grow gets a private room, authorised personnel only, an inline can be silenced to the point where it can't be heard through a closed door.

Click to expand...
Stealth is extremely important for me. The cabinet will not be in a common area - it will be in my bedroom closet. I have a padlock on the cabinet, but the closet has sliding doors which do not lock. I'll probably add a lock to my bedroom door. I want the cabinet to be as silent as possible, just in case anyone opens my closet door. Do you think if I used a cooltube on the 250 that it would keep it cool enough that I wouldn't have to use a loud fan? Also, has anyone had any experience with those panasonic whisper quiet inline fans - http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...ine-Fans.list.75114_11002_7000000000000005702 ? I've heard that they are pretty soft.
 
FreezerBoy

FreezerBoy

Was blind but now IC Puckbunny in Training
Veteran
Wish I had answers for you. Once this grow is finished, I'll play with the cab again. Enclosing the hood (or a cool tube) is where I'll start. The Panasonic Whisperfan intriques me greatly but, I want to see if I can get back to an axial as I know it's sound is perfect for a beat up freezer to make.

If you feel you can keep the bedroom door closed without arousing suspicion, an inline can be muffled to the point its noise won't escape the room. I'm in the garage where I love to putter with the door up and could, in the days of axial fans, entertain without fear. Since the inline, I've actually had neighbors ask why they don't see me doing it anymore.
 
MPL

MPL

Member
Alright, I've been promising some pics for quite awhile, so here they are.

14 days of 12/12. 400w CMH with a HTG ballast on a 4' lead. I made the batwing myself. It looked a lot better when I first made it but I chopped 3" off the end so air could flow around it a bit more efficiently. It made a difference in cooling. For scale, the cabinet is about 30" x 20". They got their first taste of flower nutes yesterday. I kept them on veg nutes an extra week into flower to try to get the N built up a bit, especially since some of the leaves were already yellowing.

I have a Stanley blower for the exhaust, and it's on a setting of 2. The temps stay around 3F-6F above ambient in the cabinet, which usually ends up somewhere around 76F-78F at the canopy.

The fan in the pictures is a cheapo from WalMart that actually kinda sucks, but it's got a thin profile and since I don't have much space it does well enough.

It's my first grow, so don't be too harsh on me.

I started a sick thread on the plants you can read here, to get an idea of what they and I have been through.






 
Last edited:
G

Guest

MPL and Pinball Wizard: Great grows. I like the homemade batwing, MPL. I am on day 13 @ 12/12.
 
G

Guest

simba said:
the yield question is debatable.depends on setup etc.. 2 400 cmh would equal to outperform a 1 1kw on overall yield.. (ya the ones under the 1k will be big but the edges will be nothing compared to center.. CMH will be even and quality)
IMPHO & IMPHO if u do it right same yield overall. and with better qaulity than hps or even hps mh combo as full spd beats partial.. peaks..
Obv but the one thing that cant be questioned is the Qaulity..no matter the yield outcome..
Click to expand...
lets say you have 2 1k's over a 4x8 table do you think you can get the same yield with 4 400's ? I don't, enlighten me. I am open minded but i just can't comprehend getting the same yield as a 1k with 2 400's unless the 1k's are tring to cover too big of an area.
 
Mr_Micro

Mr_Micro

Member
Hmm... after reading a few dozen pages of this massive thread I think a CMH might be just what I need for my PC case setup, the only thing I'm uncertain about is the wattage I should go with and if I should go with a 3k or 4k bulb.

For reference, here's my box...









The inside dimensions measure 25" (H) x 7.6" (W) x 16.25" (L). I'm currently running a 70 watt HPS remote ballasted (ballast outside of the box) and I have a 5/32" thick glass heat shield between the light chamber and the growing chamber. The light chamber has it's own 54 cfm exhaust system with a 4" darkroom midget louver intake, and the main growing chamber has a 110 CFM exhaust (pushing through a Can 705 carbon filter) with two 4" darkroom midget louver intakes.

Anyway, my current temps run about 5-8°F below room temperature when the case is mostly full and about 5-8°F over room temperature when the case is completely empty. In other words, my average temps when the light is on is around 69-80°F depending on how full the box is.


But to get to the point here, I really want to up the wattage in my box since I'm getting a lot of stretching in early growth stages with the 70 watt HPS and I think I could get better flowering results with a higher wattage light too.

So I'm thinking either a 100 or 150 watt CMH would do the trick, but I'm not sure which to go with. I'm thinking a 100 watt system just to be on the safe side (don't want to turn my little PC case into an oven) but I did want some input on this. Any idea which might be the best wattage for my setup?

Also, I'm not sure which Phillips CMH version I should go with... 3k spectrum or 4k spectrum? Protected or unprotected?
I'm pretty sure that if I read everything correctly I'll need a 100 (or 150 if I go that route) watt Metal Halide pulse start 120v ballast kit to run the CHM, right? Because HPS ballasts only work for CMHs that are 250 watts and bigger, and everything under 250 needs a metal halide ballast, right?


Anyway, any advice you guys and gals could give me on this would be much appreciated! :smoke:
 
simba

simba

Sleeping Dragon
Georgia Green, in short inverse square law of light
the shortest way to say it
you dont want one insane light source.. that creates an uneven spread.. going down as u go further away) and only has some of the energy that a plant can use.. wheras multi cmh provides more uniform distribution and more energy in nm ranges the plant can use.. and your not loosing that much to inv sqr law of light like hps.. and the Cooling factor..


Mr Micro.. glad to see you on cmh..
i like the setup..especially the large light cooling area and its sealed on the length sides..
ya its that mylar insulation thermal reflecting is taking that heat and bouncing it around when its empty bringing the temps up.. but thats good stuff for a thermal interior scan prevention.. and overall micro cooling.. (keeps heat in air not on matierals absorbing it)

id go 100 watt cmh .. you could even stay at 70 watt.. as the 70 cmh still has more usable energy for the plants.. than the 70 hps.. IMPHO

MPL ya.. timer either expensive and simple or cheap and complex (not for non-DIYiers)
 
FreezerBoy

FreezerBoy

Was blind but now IC Puckbunny in Training
Veteran
Mr_Micro said:
I'm pretty sure that if I read everything correctly I'll need a 100 (or 150 if I go that route) watt Metal Halide pulse start 120v ballast kit to run the CHM, right? Because HPS ballasts only work for CMHs that are 250 watts and bigger, and everything under 250 needs a metal halide ballast, right?
Click to expand...

You got it. Just check the ANSI code for the exact ballast you need (S=Sodium:M=MetalHalide) In a box that size, I'd be afraid to go over 100 but, I don't have any experience with a garden that small.
 
Mr_Micro

Mr_Micro

Member
simba said:
Mr Micro.. glad to see you on cmh..
i like the setup..especially the large light cooling area and its sealed on the length sides..
ya its that mylar insulation thermal reflecting is taking that heat and bouncing it around when its empty bringing the temps up.. but thats good stuff for a thermal interior scan prevention.. and overall micro cooling.. (keeps heat in air not on matierals absorbing it)

id go 100 watt cmh .. you could even stay at 70 watt.. as the 70 cmh still has more usable energy for the plants.. than the 70 hps.. IMPHO
Click to expand...


Thanks for the welcome and advice Simba!

A CMH bulb does seem like just the right thing for my setup, since I'm looking for something that will run cooler than a 100 watt HPS while still giving a big light output in a spectrum that will not only give me nice big buds in flowering but also give me nice short stocky plants in the veg period. :smoke:

And yeah, that stuff I've lined the walls and doors with is Reflectix brand reflective insulation. It's kind of like a thin highly reflective bubble wrap... very effective for reflectivity, keeping the heat in the air and not in the walls of the case, and as you mentioned preventing thermal scans as well.

So thanks for the advice, I'll go with a 100 watt CMH bulb and a matching 100 watt metal halide pulse start ballast then. My only remaining question is what spectrum should I get the bulb in? 3000k or 4000k? Advanced sells both in protected and non-protected versions, so I'm really not sure which one would be best for my setup.

Any thoughts on this?
 
C

csharper

Member
should I switch?

should I switch?

Right now, I have one 6 and one 4 month old hortilux blue 400s on digital ballasts. I am on day 58 of flower, and over the last two weeks, I have had days of 90-100 degrees at the canopy 12" away. And thats with only 78 ambient in the room. (I grow in a 4x4x8 tent in my bedroom - also have four 100w cfls vented by two 500cfm fans in a passive exhaust.

Obviously, 90-100 is way too high - and I am going to need to do another grow during the summer when it will be even hotter. My question is, how much cooler are the CMH really than the hortilux blue? And if significantly, are they that much more efficient or just where is all that extra heat going? Does the flipped red:blue ratio make the difference?
I saw something about the heat held in the bulb core... but doesn't it have to go somewhere eventually? And I think I even saw a video a while back where someone was holding a CMH with their bare hand ... so I am even more confused.

I dunno, what do you guys think - forgetting heat, obviously the hortilux blues are decent bulbs. I have seen what they can do from seed through flower and can only imagine if the cold weather (amp-free cooling) had persisted through the last two weeks (swelling phase, so I read).

So should I get two replacement blues for my next grow or scrap the eballasts and get two CMH + 2 core coil ballasts.?

On another note, I remember people saying that the eballasts operating frequency provided less flickering and better growth - does this apply to the CMH on the hps ballast or is there enough less heat that I can make up for any frequency issues by going closer?

On yet another note CMH vs Blue: anybody which has more UV actually getting past the glass to the plants?
 
G

Guest

6 Plants in 5 gal bubbler buckets, easily. I have 10 in a 30gal res running an aero/dwc hybrid system. All in a 2 x 3. :joint:
 
Last edited:
NorCalFor20

NorCalFor20

Smokes, lets go
Veteran
Vbp6us said:
6 Plants in 5 gal bubbler buckets, easily. I have 10 in a 30gal res running an aero/dwc hybrid system. All in a 2 x 3. :joint:
Click to expand...

good info... i may try 10 plants as well, in the end in optimal conditions i would have 5 females flowering under the 400w cmh.... 10 seeds/5 male

then remove males and start clones.
 
MoleMcHenry

MoleMcHenry

Member
I love my 400w CMH!

I love my 400w CMH!

I am growing these Mandala Kalichakra and Satori under my HTG 400w with a Philips Mastercolor 4000k. The Kalichakra is at 61 days and the Satori are at 28 days...So far, I love my CMH...


 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top