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Luther Burbank
I'm between locations atm and my old 400w CMHs have disappeared somewhere, but I found a new 400w HPS laying around. I ended up not using it because I've just become so used to the safety of the double-glass and coil wrap in the CMH that going back to HPS just felt *unsafe* in an open hood.
CMH operates at MUCH higher internal pressures than HPS. Spontaneous envelope failures with HPS are exceedingly rare - in 25+ years in industrial plants using 400w HPS as a standard in literally hundreds of fixtures, I don't recall any that weren't caused from mechanical or environmental damage. That said, I feel much more comfortable with enclosed fixtures!
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Luther Burbank
Rives, thanks as always for the education! I wasn't aware of the pressure differences. Fascinating! Can you explain further what causes/the reason behind the different pressures?
I'm going to have to look into the physics behind it, if I ever knew it is now a product of short-term memory loss. I know the Metal Halide family can operate at pressures up to 2,500psi, and if I recall correctly, HPS tops out at several hundred.
drknockbootz
Member
Have you guys seen the double bulb 630w papilon cmh system coming out. On there website they only suggest it be used as a veg bulb or as supplemental lighting for hps. I see people here are using it for flower and getting great results. It just threw me off, want to know your guys opinion?
I purchased 4 sun system 315w system to replace 2000w hps over my 4 x 8. I should be able to hit yields close to 2000w or 1800w hps???
I purchased 4 sun system 315w system to replace 2000w hps over my 4 x 8. I should be able to hit yields close to 2000w or 1800w hps???
sounds interesting for sure!
a bud of mine has a 2 bulb 2 ballast unit that uses the philips ballasts....
a bud of mine has a 2 bulb 2 ballast unit that uses the philips ballasts....
Ive been using a 1000 Mh 4000K bulb exclusively for bloom for a year after 2 yrs prior experimenting with combinations and differing Kelvin ratings
my results using the 4000K halide produces as good as my 1000w super hps horti eyes did.
the fact that the CMH bulbs run in the 4000K is gravy imo.
I'm currently using 1 860w cmh and results look beautiful.
the 4000K ime is the sweet spot for halides to be used in bloom.
e_24
Active member
Just purchased my magnetic 400w ballast, now to wait a week then I can get my bulb. Now I want to still use my digi ballast I flower and was thinking of using my ushio opti blue for start of flower then transition to cmh for 5 weeks then finish with hps. Any thoughts on this method?
I have a report for those interested. Not scientific in any way. Just some general information for those interested.
2nd grow ever. First successful grow.
Room is not dialed in. Grower has no experience.
14 clones of a free Delicious Seeds Cotton Candy in 2 gallon fabric pots. 1 Month Veg time. Clones didn't stretch much in flower. 2-4 inches. Were about 2 1/2 feet tall.
High Brix soil. Fish Hydrolysate for fert.
315w agro bare vert. + ~300w of fluorescent/LED's via Rives DIY Hybrid LED/PL-L Luminaire.
The Rives DIY was mostly wasted because of Vert setup. It couldn't get close enough. It was leftover from a previous grow so why not.
Lost maybe an ounce to budrot.
Harvested day 65. 4 plants were a couple days late(All red hairs). The rest could of gone another couple days?
Final weight: 294 grams dried.
0.98 GPW if you don't count the Hybrid.
0.49 GPW if you do count the Hybrid.
Nothing to compare this grow to anything else. Budrot sucked but crazy humidity lately. No idea if the strain is a good yielder. No idea how Fish Hydrolysate + Brix Soil effected final weight vs other ferts.
2nd grow ever. First successful grow.
Room is not dialed in. Grower has no experience.
14 clones of a free Delicious Seeds Cotton Candy in 2 gallon fabric pots. 1 Month Veg time. Clones didn't stretch much in flower. 2-4 inches. Were about 2 1/2 feet tall.
High Brix soil. Fish Hydrolysate for fert.
315w agro bare vert. + ~300w of fluorescent/LED's via Rives DIY Hybrid LED/PL-L Luminaire.
The Rives DIY was mostly wasted because of Vert setup. It couldn't get close enough. It was leftover from a previous grow so why not.
Lost maybe an ounce to budrot.
Harvested day 65. 4 plants were a couple days late(All red hairs). The rest could of gone another couple days?
Final weight: 294 grams dried.
0.98 GPW if you don't count the Hybrid.
0.49 GPW if you do count the Hybrid.
Nothing to compare this grow to anything else. Budrot sucked but crazy humidity lately. No idea if the strain is a good yielder. No idea how Fish Hydrolysate + Brix Soil effected final weight vs other ferts.
Question on the Philips 860w CDM Allstart
Question on the Philips 860w CDM Allstart
I'm looking at getting a setup using the Philips 860w CDM, but I have a few questions...
First - Many are saying it runs on a 1000w MH ballast... Philips states the bulb runs at 248v, does this mean the ballast needs to run off a 240v line... or do 120v 1000w ballasts work just fine?
Second - do the 1000w Ballasts overdrive the bulbs? In essence would I be using 1000w+ at the wall by using a 1000w magnetic ballast?
Third - If standard 120v 1000w ballasts work, shouldn't the Baddass Low Frequency Ballast be able to start & drive this bulb?
If anybody can give me any insight I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!
Question on the Philips 860w CDM Allstart
I'm looking at getting a setup using the Philips 860w CDM, but I have a few questions...
First - Many are saying it runs on a 1000w MH ballast... Philips states the bulb runs at 248v, does this mean the ballast needs to run off a 240v line... or do 120v 1000w ballasts work just fine?
Second - do the 1000w Ballasts overdrive the bulbs? In essence would I be using 1000w+ at the wall by using a 1000w magnetic ballast?
Third - If standard 120v 1000w ballasts work, shouldn't the Baddass Low Frequency Ballast be able to start & drive this bulb?
If anybody can give me any insight I'd appreciate it.
Thanks!
Preface- Magnetic ballasts convert input voltage to lamp voltage with a transformer. Magnetic ballasts, in general, can be wired for different input voltages to create the same lamp output voltage. They use multi tap transformers.
First- the 860 runs on a magnetic 1000w ballast, MH or switchable. It's open fixture rated & requires vertical orientation.
Second- The ballast just supplies power to the load, the lamp. The load itself determines current flow. On the same ballast, the 860 will use proportionately less power than a 1000w.
Third- It might. Dunno.
Switchable mag ballasts are inexpensive, reliable & versatile, easily a good bet if you want to experiment with different lamps. They'll run anything well if at slightly lower efficiency than some electronic models.
Just checking with you guys to see if there's a better or cheaper option for a ballast available.
http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Pro-E..._indust_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0K7CRFB81R6A3D1TF9RC
I'm still not sure if this is the correct one for a CMH, but what I've read leads me to believe it will.
Also, where to purchase these damn bulbs? Advanced tech lighting seems to only sell 6+ or so and I'm not looking for that many.
http://www.amazon.com/Harvest-Pro-E..._indust_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0K7CRFB81R6A3D1TF9RC
I'm still not sure if this is the correct one for a CMH, but what I've read leads me to believe it will.
Also, where to purchase these damn bulbs? Advanced tech lighting seems to only sell 6+ or so and I'm not looking for that many.
That will run a discontinued hps 400w conversion cmh-
http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm
To run a 330W philips mh replacement cmh you need either a 400w MH ballast or a switchable HPS/MH ballast. like this-
http://www.thelashop.com/400-watt-s...ballast.html?gclid=CP23u-GlucACFfA-MgodZAEAmw
The switch disables the hps ignitor for MH/cmh operation. It will also run the above hps conversion lamp with the switch in the hps position.
To run a 315w philips cmh, you need a whole different ballast-
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmmw.htm
The 400w cmh & 330w cmh were designed as replacement lamps for existing fixtures & ballasts. The 315 is a whole new separate system.
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Should I go with a 315? I want to do a small vertical grow and it seems like a good option. If I decide to go with this - it would just be the combo kit on advanced tech lighting, right? I really appreciate your time.
I honestly don't know. Contact 'em for more info. I have not used the 315 hardware. 315w stuff in the US is mostly DIY at this point or horribly overpriced. If you're not a fairly advanced tinkerer, you'd maybe be better off with a switchable magnetic ballast, CDM330/U/O/4K EA lamp (pre-burned from advanced) & a cord/socket like this-
http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134821
That's plug & play. It'll also run 400w hps & mh.
For a 315 system, you need a step up transformer to operate from 120v, electronic ballast, 315 lamp, socket & connecting wiring. The mogul base 315 from Advanced is open fixture rated. Some of the pg18 315w philips lamps are not.
Transformer-
http://www.batteryjunction.com/seven-star-tc500.html?gclid=CMnp8_OGusACFfA-MgodZAEAmw
It depends on how comfortable you are doing your own wiring.
I'm trying to get the most future proof system. I understand that some are discontinued and don't wish to pursue those routes. I'm looking for the cheapest and or easiest way to get into this. I've finally got some spare money to dedicate to an upgrade and it seems like CMH is what's getting my attention. I apologize for my lack of research, but it's hard to find a basic "this goes with this". Is it to my real advantage to using this over an HPS?
I'm not looking to go over 400 so it seems like this would be my best option?
http://www.thelashop.com/400-watt-s...ballast.html?gclid=CP23u-GlucACFfA-MgodZAEAmw
and this will work with either a 330 or a 400? My understanding is that I would need the cord and socket that you posted from here as well?
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.hydroponics.net/i/134821[/FONT]
lastly... Is there a huge heat difference between the two?
I appreciate any and all of these that you can answer. I'm coming from LED and feel smothered - albeit I shouldn't be.
The array of available hardware is daunting, no doubt, & I don't pretend to be an expert. 400w systems won't be going away any time RSN simply because they're widely used in industrial lighting. Lamps & parts will likely be available for the foreseeable future. Remote ballast magnetic grow systems use the same guts as industrial lighting, bringing the price down.
In terms of heat, running HID lighting is like running an electric space heater. All the power from the receptacle ultimately becomes heat except for a very small % that gets used to make plant matter. When the light is absorbed, it heats whatever absorbs it. They all put out some light in the infrared, particularly HPS, with CMH doing that the least of any. That's why Philips developed the 330w CMH- basically the same amount of visible light for less power & therefore less heat.
It can be difficult to remove heat from the grow space, particularly using naked vertical bulbs. That's why enclosed & vented reflectors are used. Some of the heat never gets into the grow space.
If you buy the linked ballast (or 1 with the same features) & a socket/cordset, you'll be able to use a very wide selection of lamps designed for that kind of ballast- probe start MH, HPS, MH & CMH conversion bulbs designed for HPS fixtures as well as CMH. It's the easiest & most versatile answer.
If you have trouble dealing with the heat, you may need to improve ventilation, go to an enclosed/vented reflector or use A/C. It depends on your particular circumstances.
The proprietary Philips 315w CMH system is state of the art, no doubt, but it doesn't currently offer that kind of convenience of installation or versatility. The combo from Advanced is a relatively good deal if you want to go that way. You'll need to add a step up transformer, do some wiring, end up with a less elegant physical installation. It'll also cost ~$100 more.
If you watch eBay, there are some killer deals on the 315 ballasts at times if you know what to look for.
The ballast can be packaged in a pretty small enclosure because of it's low heat generation - they are barely warm to the touch after several hours of operation. A transformer is not required if you are set up to run 240v.
I run a vented reflector and my grow space is actually cooler than when I was running LEDs - while the LEDs run cooler than an HID lamp, they don't lend themselves well to containing and evacuating the heat. It's a pretty simple matter to change out the lamp socket in an existing reflector to the PGZ18 required for the 315.
The ballast can be packaged in a pretty small enclosure because of it's low heat generation - they are barely warm to the touch after several hours of operation. A transformer is not required if you are set up to run 240v.
I run a vented reflector and my grow space is actually cooler than when I was running LEDs - while the LEDs run cooler than an HID lamp, they don't lend themselves well to containing and evacuating the heat. It's a pretty simple matter to change out the lamp socket in an existing reflector to the PGZ18 required for the 315.
Are you using the Greenbeams/Cycloptics reflector?
