Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[soursmoker]

so the 400w Retro White has better spectrum, while the 330w Allstart was better efficiency? Am I getting this correct?

but soon the Retro White will have no support behind them... hmmm

 

[Illumination]

Know what you mean! Spurr and Knna make for some good reading at about post 160, but the...

UVB Light and Terpenoids by GreenintheThumb
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=139726

...thread is probably better suited to grows bigger than the 2x4 closet I'm using.

As pointless as it may seem, I'm going to use a couple of reptile CFL lights with a DIY mini-reflector this time around. Close to the canopy, I'm hoping to get close to >.01 W/cm2 to <1.0 W/cm2. Basically a bare minimum of UVB to prime the sunscreen pump, as it were, for enhancing THC.

I have no proof of it, but I firmly believe the CMH's SPD reaches well into UVA and probably drops off at somewhere around 360nm-370nm. There is just too much anecdotal info on improvement in taste and aroma out there that says it does.

Just another reason to love this bulb! All the red...all the blue....and all the UVA. Add UVB, stir, and pour!

150 -400 uw/cm2 to produce the cannabinoid ratio manipulation desired is what I have found...sats respond better to more...over 400 and yield suffers with no increase in effect

 

[Illumination]

Know what you mean! Spurr and Knna make for some good reading at about post 160, but the...

UVB Light and Terpenoids by GreenintheThumb
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=139726

...thread is probably better suited to grows bigger than the 2x4 closet I'm using.

As pointless as it may seem, I'm going to use a couple of reptile CFL lights with a DIY mini-reflector this time around. Close to the canopy, I'm hoping to get close to >.01 W/cm2 to <1.0 W/cm2. Basically a bare minimum of UVB to prime the sunscreen pump, as it were, for enhancing THC.

I have no proof of it, but I firmly believe the CMH's SPD reaches well into UVA and probably drops off at somewhere around 360nm-370nm. There is just too much anecdotal info on improvement in taste and aroma out there that says it does.

Just another reason to love this bulb! All the red...all the blue....and all the UVA. Add UVB, stir, and pour!

150 -400 uw/cm2 to produce the cannabinoid ratio manipulation desired is what I have found...sats respond better to more...over 400 and yield suffers with no increase in effect

 

[unthing]

soursmoker,

get a mag mh/hps ballast, covers most bases

 

[soursmoker]

hmm any good reccomendations?

As of right now my plan is looking like this...

This Bulb\

This Ballast

And I guess a Mogul socket...

Is that all I will need? doesn't seem bad at all... About $115 bucks for a system that is more efficient than a 400w HPS.

Input?

different bulb?

I noticed there is a ED28 and ED37 bulb shape... which one do I want?

thanks so much guys

 

[messn'n'gommin']

150 -400 uw/cm2 to produce the cannabinoid ratio manipulation desired is what I have found...sats respond better to more...over 400 and yield suffers with no increase in effect

Thank you! I appreciate the heads up!

My thinking, then, was based on a snippet of this study:
UV-B Mediated Responses in Plants
http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/content/full/133/4/1420

[*]Hanns Frohnmeyer and
[*]Dorothee Staiger
[/LIST]
]Low UV-B fluence rates (<1 μmol m-2 s-1) cause no or very low amounts of CPDs that are below the limit of detection but stimulate protective and photomorphogenetic responses (Batschauer et al., 1996; Kim et al., 1998; Frohnmeyer et al., 1999) that affect the plant's resistance to UV-B stress and to other biotic stress types (Kim et al., 1998; Ballaré, 2003).

To be honest, though, the batwing reflectors I was (and still am) using, prevented me from getting the one or two lizard-10 bulbs at the best height. The UV light/s was/were either too close or too far away. Since, I felt, the Retrowhites were providing enough UV, I dropped them.

A blast from the past! I take it you've read the whole thread? Now that's stamina!

Thanks, again!

 

[GreenThumb14]

the 330 spectrum by comparison is not as good

If this is the case then SourSmoker may be better off with a 400w retro white... Even though they are drying up they do operate for quite a long time so buying 2 bulbs should get a grower through at least a year of growing if not several years.

Soursmoker, I'd recommend getting a switchable mag ballast like unthing recommended. 400w Retro Whites are still available for around $50... Get one now and when you have the spare change buy another one. You really can't go wrong with that bulb.

 

[City Twin]

Thanks for all the recent upgrade info Neighbors. I got to figure some way to get my wattage budget above o.5kw.

 

[soursmoker]

If this is the case then SourSmoker may be better off with a 400w retro white... Even though they are drying up they do operate for quite a long time so buying 2 bulbs should get a grower through at least a year of growing if not several years.

Soursmoker, I'd recommend getting a switchable mag ballast like unthing recommended. 400w Retro Whites are still available for around $50... Get one now and when you have the spare change buy another one. You really can't go wrong with that bulb.

can anyone reccomend a good cheap switchable mag ballast?

I Really liked the idea of getting a $40 dollar MH ballast and and $50 bulb and being set...

switchable ballasts look like they run around minimum of $100

Anyone here run the 330w CDM allstarts on MH ballast yet? how was it?

 

[soursmoker]

You cant put a CMH bulb in a switchable ballast, period.

hmm I found this while searching around here...

anyone have input on this?

 

[GreenThumb14]

can anyone reccomend a good cheap switchable mag ballast?

I Really liked the idea of getting a $40 dollar MH ballast and and $50 bulb and being set...

switchable ballasts look like they run around minimum of $100

Anyone here run the 330w CDM allstarts on MH ballast yet? how was it?

I don't think you will be disappointed with the 330w. Like I said, I have a Northern Lights Blue going under one and it's veg'n like crazy.


You can do a Retro White setup with an S51 HPS ballast for basically the same price as doing the 330w Allstart CDM. I've spent nearly a thousand $ so far on different grow setups, lights, hydro equipment, etc... Look at it this way, it's an investment. I have several ballasts, bulbs, air pumps, water pumps, reflector hoods, fans, blowers, etc... It's not a waste of $ if you're serious about growing plants.

 

[LeeROI]

hmm I found this while searching around here...

anyone have input on this?

Seems like an ignorant post.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=82953

Somebody has said the toggle switches on convertible ballasts were not properly rated but I dunno.


"what option do you believe is the one that will be around?" I really don't know--I've got kit for 250w & 400w Retro but I think I'll concentrate on an LED setup.

 

[Induction87]

hmm any good reccomendations?

As of right now my plan is looking like this...

This Bulb\

This Ballast

And I guess a Mogul socket...

Is that all I will need? doesn't seem bad at all... About $115 bucks for a system that is more efficient than a 400w HPS.

Input?

different bulb?

I noticed there is a ED28 and ED37 bulb shape... which one do I want?

thanks so much guys

ED37 is like 11.5 inches long. You probably want the ED28, 3.5 inches long

You dont need to get the switchable ballasts. Get the HPS 400w, burn the retro whites until you have the scrilla to get a 315 (if thats your plan). The 400s may be discontinued, but you can still find them all over the internet, for cheap. And like GreenThumb said, its going to last you several cycles.

Even when you do get a 315 and when you can't find the 400s anymore, you can use the hps ballast to run an enhanced hps bulb next to the the 315 and have killer yields.

 

[soursmoker]

So what is everyone's opinion...

Option A) 330w CDM allstart with MH ballast

Option B) 400w Retro White with HPS ballast

seems like they will both be a little more than $100 depending on which ballast and bulbs I get and where I get em from.

Input? Alternatives?

Thanks so much guys

 

[soursmoker]

ED37 is like 11.5 inches long. You probably want the ED28, 3.5 inches long

You dont need to get the switchable ballasts. Get the HPS 400w, burn the retro whites until you have the scrilla to get a 315 (if thats your plan). The 400s may be discontinued, but you can still find them all over the internet, for cheap. And like GreenThumb said, its going to last you several cycles.

Even when you do get a 315 and when you can't find the 400s anymore, you can use the hps ballast to run an enhanced hps bulb next to the the 315 and have killer yields.

lol you commented on the CDM allstart bulbs and then say I should get the retro whites? haha ok I think I like the idea of the retro whites better anyway, more people have used them and supposedly they have the better spectrum...

only advantage to allstart is the efficiency...

Thanks again!

 

[Induction87]

lol I was just letting you know the difference in the bulb size, since you asked

If you were to get the 330w, get the ed28, is what i was saying.

Who really cares about saving 80 watts? Thats 0.08kw * 18hr/day *31 days/month * 0.10 dollars/kw = 4.5 bucks a month... If the 400 has a better spectrum, rock it.

 

[GreenThumb14]

lol you commented on the CDM allstart bulbs and then say I should get the retro whites? haha ok I think I like the idea of the retro whites better anyway, more people have used them and supposedly they have the better spectrum...

only advantage to allstart is the efficiency...

Thanks again!

You won't regret using either bulb. There has been a lot of talk about the 830/860w CDM Allstarts on here and about their excellent spectrum... Well the 330w Allstart is in the same family, so I'm not sure I agree with the Retro White being of better quality spectrum. The Retro Whites (on Philips site) do not list the UV output, but the Allstarts do.

The 315w Elite bulb, which I think we all agree is currently the best bulb...

• UV A
  2.21 mW/cm2
• UV B
  0.03 mW/cm2
• UV C
  0.13 mW/cm2

The 330w Allstart...

• UV A
  10.1 mW/cm2
• UV B
  0.07 mW/cm2
• UV C
  0.07 mW/cm2

Just pick one and go with it... I seriously doubt you will notice more than a few grams difference in yield over either bulb. The cultivation method will make up for any small difference between a Retro White or a 330w Allstart.

 

[GreenThumb14]

lol I was just letting you know the difference in the bulb size, since you asked

If you were to get the 330w, get the ed28, is what i was saying.

Who really cares about saving 80 watts? Thats 0.08kw * 18hr/day *31 days/month * 0.10 dollars/kw = 4.5 bucks a month... If the 400 has a better spectrum, rock it.

Less heat and wear on ballast. Unless mag ballasts aren't violently puking heat anymore?

Not to mention if you are limited to working on a single circuit with-in your grow room then saving 80w could be beneficial.


On that note, I am running a 250w Retro White, 150w Allstart CDM, 330w Allstart, S&P TD-150 blower, 2x 6" vent duct fans, 4 port air pump, and clip-on 6" desk fans all for a 3x6' 4 plant scrog and pulling just under 1kW/hr.

I'm limited to one 15amp 120vac circuit so I wanted to make sure I had a nice safety margin for anything else I may need to power in that room.

 

[Fonzarelli]

I'm confused now. Is someone saying that the Allstart lamps have a lower quality spectrum than the 400w retro white? Why would this be true? When I compare the SPD graphs of the 2 lamps I see a larger deep red output in the Allstarts. Am I missing something?

 

[Fonzarelli]

the 330 spectrum by comparison is not as good

Why?