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I am done with all forms of HID, including CMH. I think LEDs are mature enough to consider for a serious grow so am going to try and go that route. I'll put up build threads and journals and whatnot when I get started.
I just wanted to wave bye to all the CMH growers.
Thanks, MPL!
This thread literally changed my life!
Good luck and see ya round like a donut!
Namaste
spunion
Member
This might help...
Just thought I would chime in with a personal experience on trying to use an electronic ballast with a CMH bulb. Ive been using a 400 watt CMH with a magnetic ballast for the last 90 days as a finishing light in my flower room. Its been working great to frost up the colas in the last two weeks of flower (I use 1000 watt HPS for the rest of flower). I use a Galaxy electronic ballast to run my regular metal halide bulb in the veg room, and it puts out *way* more light than a magnetic HPS ballast (11-20% compared to two core'n'coils I tested it against). Thinking that perhaps it might have the same effect on my CMH bulb, I swapped them out to see what happened...
The bulb lit immediately and brightly, but a serious flicker started, too. This lasted for about 5 minutes until the bulb went out completely. Yikes! I shut off the ballast, allowed the bulb to cool for 15 minutes, then reconnected the magnetic ballast. It fired up as normal with no problems, so hopefully I didn't cause any long-term damage. Lesson learned - stick with old school ballasts when it comes to CMH technology.
edit: I was reading here:
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm
And realized there are HPS and MH specific CMH lamps. After searching google it seems like CHM is for magnetic ballasts only.
I use a switchable magnetic ballast (on the HPS switch) with the CMH bulb. I've been using CMH bulbs for nearly as long as this thread has been up. No problems.
Pine
Hello everyone!
I've been running a 250watt HPS autoflowering cupboard grow for about 3-4 years, and while I've had really good results I've always had problems with some of the plants getting far too lanky, and the buds being a little airy.
I decided to spend some money on a blue light to veg under and use during as a supplement during flowering, but after looking at 125watt and 250watt flourescents and working out the initial price and extra electricity costs associated with using them, not to mention the difficulty of hanging them alongside my HPS in a smallish (1.3M x 63cm x 45cm) cupboard, I started having second thoughts.
I also considered getting something like a 75watt MH floodlight, but they are heavy and bulky and probably wouldn't fit.
I finally did some looking at dual spectrum bulbs, but they seem pretty questionable in their claims (an extra 5% blue light? wow..) and the best ones don't seem to come in 250watt variants. Finally, I heard about Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs and found this thread! It's an absolute trove of information on the subject, and it's amazing that I hadn't heard about this technology up until now.
I'm hoping that the higher initial cost of thes bulbs (about £50, including shipping, compared to a £30 flourescent and lead) will be mitigated by their long life span and the fact that I'm not increasing the electricity consumption by 50%+. However, before I make a final decision, I have a couple of questions that you amazing people will be able to answer!.
1. I read that CMH's tax the ballast a little harder than HPS bulbs, and can cause problems with cheap ballasts. Mine was a £90 250watt powerplant magnetic ballast, with a 8-9' lead between it and the bulb. Does this sound alright?
2. Is advanced lighting still the best place to buy these bulbs?
3. Have peoples opinions on CMH changed dramatically? Are they still considered the best full spectrum, HPS-compatible bulb on the market?
Thanks a lot! If I end up getting one, I'll be sure to post a grow diary to let people know how I'm getting on.
I've been running a 250watt HPS autoflowering cupboard grow for about 3-4 years, and while I've had really good results I've always had problems with some of the plants getting far too lanky, and the buds being a little airy.
I decided to spend some money on a blue light to veg under and use during as a supplement during flowering, but after looking at 125watt and 250watt flourescents and working out the initial price and extra electricity costs associated with using them, not to mention the difficulty of hanging them alongside my HPS in a smallish (1.3M x 63cm x 45cm) cupboard, I started having second thoughts.
I also considered getting something like a 75watt MH floodlight, but they are heavy and bulky and probably wouldn't fit.
I finally did some looking at dual spectrum bulbs, but they seem pretty questionable in their claims (an extra 5% blue light? wow..) and the best ones don't seem to come in 250watt variants. Finally, I heard about Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs and found this thread! It's an absolute trove of information on the subject, and it's amazing that I hadn't heard about this technology up until now.
I'm hoping that the higher initial cost of thes bulbs (about £50, including shipping, compared to a £30 flourescent and lead) will be mitigated by their long life span and the fact that I'm not increasing the electricity consumption by 50%+. However, before I make a final decision, I have a couple of questions that you amazing people will be able to answer!.
1. I read that CMH's tax the ballast a little harder than HPS bulbs, and can cause problems with cheap ballasts. Mine was a £90 250watt powerplant magnetic ballast, with a 8-9' lead between it and the bulb. Does this sound alright?
2. Is advanced lighting still the best place to buy these bulbs?
3. Have peoples opinions on CMH changed dramatically? Are they still considered the best full spectrum, HPS-compatible bulb on the market?
Thanks a lot! If I end up getting one, I'll be sure to post a grow diary to let people know how I'm getting on.
1a) As far as I know, not any more than MH or HPS.
1B) A few had a bit of trouble with the rated firing range of some of the ignitors. But, solved it by either getting an ignitor with a longer firing range or by physically relocating the stock ignitor closer to the lamp.
2) There are a few other places that are selling them, but since I hadn't planned on getting another one until after this next grow (and maybe another one or two), I don't have any links for you. Someone should be able to help you out with that one, though.
3a) Dramatically changed their opinions? That's a bit to subjective for me to say. But, I will say that a lot of the haters seem to have less and less negative to say about them, and/or they are becoming fewer and fewer in number.
3b) lol...As far as I am concerned, yeah!
As an aside, like any HID lamp, it has its pluses and minuses. All things being equal, HPS will probably yield more. MH will get you better quality. CMH will get you better quality than HPS, but better yield than MH. A compromise for sure, but for a 2x4 closet (roughly 70cmX140cm) I'm not out for just yield, I'm out for as much quality as I can get!
hth
1B) A few had a bit of trouble with the rated firing range of some of the ignitors. But, solved it by either getting an ignitor with a longer firing range or by physically relocating the stock ignitor closer to the lamp.
2) There are a few other places that are selling them, but since I hadn't planned on getting another one until after this next grow (and maybe another one or two), I don't have any links for you. Someone should be able to help you out with that one, though.
3a) Dramatically changed their opinions? That's a bit to subjective for me to say. But, I will say that a lot of the haters seem to have less and less negative to say about them, and/or they are becoming fewer and fewer in number.
3b) lol...As far as I am concerned, yeah!
As an aside, like any HID lamp, it has its pluses and minuses. All things being equal, HPS will probably yield more. MH will get you better quality. CMH will get you better quality than HPS, but better yield than MH. A compromise for sure, but for a 2x4 closet (roughly 70cmX140cm) I'm not out for just yield, I'm out for as much quality as I can get!
hth
Coralgrower2
New member
LMAO!!!!!
I have read this thread a few times over the yrs its been going!
And people are Stilll asking questions about what ballest to use!
Get the 4k Regular 400 watt CMH bulb with a regular 400 hps MAG' ballest.
If you use a 3k bulb in open air, your insane! Blunt enough?
If you use a 3k bulb in a enclosed reflector (only way to do it and not be called insane!) You lose Allot of UV that these CMH bulbs are known for. The reflector cover filters out good Uv's for plants.
There is a new bulb, called allstart, i belive, saying its more energy efficant blah blah blah.....Runs on a different ballest ect....In short, unless your running 15+ bulbs, you wont see any gain!
So in caps..............
If your looking for what to buy....buy this!
Phillips 400 watt 4k bulb, NON-Allstart
The Magnetic Ballest he sells @ advanced lighting! Its a phillips, and will last forever!
Vertical or Horz' your application.
Now, i watch to see how many weeks from now it takes for someone to ask if they should use a elect' ballest with the 4k CMH light!
Anyone wanna set the over/under in days?
I have read this thread a few times over the yrs its been going!
And people are Stilll asking questions about what ballest to use!
Get the 4k Regular 400 watt CMH bulb with a regular 400 hps MAG' ballest.
If you use a 3k bulb in open air, your insane! Blunt enough?
If you use a 3k bulb in a enclosed reflector (only way to do it and not be called insane!) You lose Allot of UV that these CMH bulbs are known for. The reflector cover filters out good Uv's for plants.
There is a new bulb, called allstart, i belive, saying its more energy efficant blah blah blah.....Runs on a different ballest ect....In short, unless your running 15+ bulbs, you wont see any gain!
So in caps..............
If your looking for what to buy....buy this!
Phillips 400 watt 4k bulb, NON-Allstart
The Magnetic Ballest he sells @ advanced lighting! Its a phillips, and will last forever!
Vertical or Horz' your application.
Now, i watch to see how many weeks from now it takes for someone to ask if they should use a elect' ballest with the 4k CMH light!
Anyone wanna set the over/under in days?
CMH&HPS how much CMH?
CMH&HPS how much CMH?
x=lights y=plants x y x
y x y
x y x
corner lights 600w center light 1000w hps or mh? dream would be all 5 lights hps then add more 400w cmh. Will 400w CMH makes sense? Room is 9x10x8. HOw many? where should I place them?
Goal of CMH is too add blue and UV light. Will 1 cmh add enough UV? Will 1 cmh add enough blue? Keep in mind the center bulb is 1000w if I hang the cmh below or above will it reach the plants which are a 1000w distance?
CMH&HPS how much CMH?
x=lights y=plants x y x
y x y
x y x
corner lights 600w center light 1000w hps or mh? dream would be all 5 lights hps then add more 400w cmh. Will 400w CMH makes sense? Room is 9x10x8. HOw many? where should I place them?
Goal of CMH is too add blue and UV light. Will 1 cmh add enough UV? Will 1 cmh add enough blue? Keep in mind the center bulb is 1000w if I hang the cmh below or above will it reach the plants which are a 1000w distance?
What's wrong with ALLSTART?
It's got all the specs we want from Phillips 4100K and 90CRI, uses only 330 watts and a metal halide ballast (saves ignitor and a possible part failure)
& open rated......
Philips Energy Advantage CDM AllStart
.
Direct retrofit with immediate energy savings!
..
Use on Metal Halide Ballast's
Philips Energy Advantage CDM lamps with AllStart™ Technology
A high-efficiency protected “O” rated CDM lighting solution that provides energy savings without compromising light quality.
UPDATED 1.5 Year Warranty
Direct retrofit lamp to both probe and pulse start magnetic ballasts
Utilizes 175, 250, 400 Watt Metal Halide Probe Or Pulse Start Ballasts
A true universal operation that does not affect lamp life
Long life ≥ 20,000 hrs rated average life
Energy savings up to 18%*
100 Lumen Per Watt
Excellent Color Stability, High CRI 85 - 90
80%+ Lumen Maintenance Stays brighter, longer.
No Shut Off Required
Ideal for 24-hour a day, 7-day a week operations
(Re-lamp fixtures at or before the end of rated life)
Patented Coil Design Offers Protection
for Open Fixture Rating
Ideal for indoor and outdoor applications
of industrial facilities and warehouses
* 330W CDM lamp with AllStart™Technology compared to 400W quartz Metal Halide lamp.
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmallstart.htm
It's got all the specs we want from Phillips 4100K and 90CRI, uses only 330 watts and a metal halide ballast (saves ignitor and a possible part failure)
& open rated......
Philips Energy Advantage CDM AllStart
.
Direct retrofit with immediate energy savings!
..
Use on Metal Halide Ballast's
Philips Energy Advantage CDM lamps with AllStart™ Technology
A high-efficiency protected “O” rated CDM lighting solution that provides energy savings without compromising light quality.
UPDATED 1.5 Year Warranty
Direct retrofit lamp to both probe and pulse start magnetic ballasts
Utilizes 175, 250, 400 Watt Metal Halide Probe Or Pulse Start Ballasts
A true universal operation that does not affect lamp life
Long life ≥ 20,000 hrs rated average life
Energy savings up to 18%*
100 Lumen Per Watt
Excellent Color Stability, High CRI 85 - 90
80%+ Lumen Maintenance Stays brighter, longer.
No Shut Off Required
Ideal for 24-hour a day, 7-day a week operations
(Re-lamp fixtures at or before the end of rated life)
Patented Coil Design Offers Protection
for Open Fixture Rating
Ideal for indoor and outdoor applications
of industrial facilities and warehouses
* 330W CDM lamp with AllStart™Technology compared to 400W quartz Metal Halide lamp.
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmallstart.htm
LMAO!!!!!
I have read this thread a few times over the yrs its been going!
And people are Stilll asking questions about what ballest to use!
Get the 4k Regular 400 watt CMH bulb with a regular 400 hps MAG' ballest.
If you use a 3k bulb in open air, your insane! Blunt enough?
If you use a 3k bulb in a enclosed reflector (only way to do it and not be called insane!) You lose Allot of UV that these CMH bulbs are known for. The reflector cover filters out good Uv's for plants.
There is a new bulb, called allstart, i belive, saying its more energy efficant blah blah blah.....Runs on a different ballest ect....In short, unless your running 15+ bulbs, you wont see any gain!
So in caps..............
If your looking for what to buy....buy this!
Phillips 400 watt 4k bulb, NON-Allstart
The Magnetic Ballest he sells @ advanced lighting! Its a phillips, and will last forever!
Vertical or Horz' your application.
Now, i watch to see how many weeks from now it takes for someone to ask if they should use a elect' ballest with the 4k CMH light!
Anyone wanna set the over/under in days?
@ 41Hope: If money was not a problem, I would place a 400w CMH below every one of them.
After that, I would go with a 1000w MH in the middle. A cheaper option than four new 600w MH ballasts (unless yours are switchable) and as much as I like the CMH, 400w's is a bit weak for trees. At this point in your plants life, running a 1000w's of MH for the last two weeks would probably add a boost to taste and aroma. But, I've never run MH's so please take that with a grain of salt!
Still, if your wanting to add UV, you might want to consider the MV/halogen versions of reptile lights. But, you would probably be better off adding it from start to finish, or at least through flower, for your next grow.
After that, I would go with a 1000w MH in the middle. A cheaper option than four new 600w MH ballasts (unless yours are switchable) and as much as I like the CMH, 400w's is a bit weak for trees. At this point in your plants life, running a 1000w's of MH for the last two weeks would probably add a boost to taste and aroma. But, I've never run MH's so please take that with a grain of salt!
Still, if your wanting to add UV, you might want to consider the MV/halogen versions of reptile lights. But, you would probably be better off adding it from start to finish, or at least through flower, for your next grow.
HID bulbs do NOT emit UV. That is a period at the end of the sentence.
I guess this should be posted on every single page as some keep trying to promote the myth that UV can be gotten from an HID bulb.
What is so hard? if perchance some company sold an HID bulb with detectable UV the feds would show up at their door with a writ and the factory would make no more. If there is a non-american company making HID's with UV they certainly are not going to piss off the USA by illegally selling it on the black market, not enough profit margin.
Thank you for your time.
I guess this should be posted on every single page as some keep trying to promote the myth that UV can be gotten from an HID bulb.
What is so hard? if perchance some company sold an HID bulb with detectable UV the feds would show up at their door with a writ and the factory would make no more. If there is a non-american company making HID's with UV they certainly are not going to piss off the USA by illegally selling it on the black market, not enough profit margin.
Thank you for your time.
Technically, 400nm is considered the cut off point between visible light and UV radiation.
MH, and by default CMH, lamps are allowed, by law, to emit a small amount of UV. The gov. mandated CYOA warning on MH (and CMH) packaging, states that UV is attenuated, meaning it is lessened, not eliminated. I am not certain of it, but I think it falls off to virtually nothing at around 360nm to 380nm.
Still, the only info I have seen is at the bottom of post #2 of this thread.
hth
MH, and by default CMH, lamps are allowed, by law, to emit a small amount of UV. The gov. mandated CYOA warning on MH (and CMH) packaging, states that UV is attenuated, meaning it is lessened, not eliminated. I am not certain of it, but I think it falls off to virtually nothing at around 360nm to 380nm.
Still, the only info I have seen is at the bottom of post #2 of this thread.
hth
CMH 400....UV?
a rash would appear on my knuckles...first...my right hand
which I used to rotate the plants under the light.
...so...I switched to my left hand.
3 days later...a rash appeared on my left knuckles
so...I don't rotate under the light...anymore.....
a rash would appear on my knuckles...first...my right hand
which I used to rotate the plants under the light.
...so...I switched to my left hand.
3 days later...a rash appeared on my left knuckles
so...I don't rotate under the light...anymore.....
CMH 400....UV?
a rash would appear on my knuckles...first...my right hand
which I used to rotate the plants under the light.
...so...I switched to my left hand.
3 days later...a rash appeared on my left knuckles
so...I don't rotate under the light...anymore.....
Good call, PW! I used to test the heat output by putting my hand under the light for a few seconds. It surprised me how quickly it did cause a "sunburn!" lol...I quit doing that, too!
VolcanoVapin
Member
Okay, guys... I need your opinions. Right now I'm using 1 400w cmh for veg and 1 separate 400 watt cmh for flowering. I'm 5 weeks through flowering so far and like what I see so far for the most part, but I grew the plants a little too much in veg, and so they ended up pretty large after stretching the first 3 weeks of flowering... and the cmh doesn't penetrate well enough to really get to the middle-to-bottom areas of the plants.
So, I'm planning ahead for the next run now. I'm going to keep using a 400 watt cmh for veg. I think they work great for veg and are big enough to grow out some nice mothers... but what do you guys think I should do for flowering?
2 x 400 watt CMH SOG style so the plants stay small and light penetrates to the bottom OR a single 1000 watt HPS hung vertically with plants trained around it in a circle?
I think vertical style growing is the most efficient from what I've seen, but unfortunately I don't think CMH light penetrates well enough to be used well vertically... and although I like what I've seen of the CMH so far in flowering, I have a strong feeling that 1000 hps would provide significantly bigger yields due to light intensity and penetration, especially in a veritcal setup.... I haven't yet made up my mind though. 2 400watt CMH kept really close to a bunch of smaller plants would probably do quite well.
Does anybody have any pictures of harvests from 2 or more 400 watt cmh? What's the most you guys have been able to pull from a setup like that? If anybody has done any tests with multi CMH vs 1000 watt, could you share your results and opinions?
So, I'm planning ahead for the next run now. I'm going to keep using a 400 watt cmh for veg. I think they work great for veg and are big enough to grow out some nice mothers... but what do you guys think I should do for flowering?
2 x 400 watt CMH SOG style so the plants stay small and light penetrates to the bottom OR a single 1000 watt HPS hung vertically with plants trained around it in a circle?
I think vertical style growing is the most efficient from what I've seen, but unfortunately I don't think CMH light penetrates well enough to be used well vertically... and although I like what I've seen of the CMH so far in flowering, I have a strong feeling that 1000 hps would provide significantly bigger yields due to light intensity and penetration, especially in a veritcal setup.... I haven't yet made up my mind though. 2 400watt CMH kept really close to a bunch of smaller plants would probably do quite well.
Does anybody have any pictures of harvests from 2 or more 400 watt cmh? What's the most you guys have been able to pull from a setup like that? If anybody has done any tests with multi CMH vs 1000 watt, could you share your results and opinions?
I don't know what your timetable is on your new setup, but I'm currently building exactly what you are talking about... a 2x400 CMH vert SOG setup.
It'll look something like this:
The whole thing is 2.5' wide and 6.5' long. The BACK of the outside top tier of plants in the corner (farthest from the light) is 2'7" away from the bulb. Just outside of the penetration of the bulb. But even that plant is still has 3/4 of itself in the optimal zone.
Holding 80-90 plants with no veg time needed...
Stay tuned.
