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Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

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onegreenday

Active member
Veteran
Quote: Most of your structural flowering/bud building as done under HPS. You also cut your plants a week and a half too soon. Sadhu should go 65-70 days.>>>>

I only thinned it out a little and some
lower stuff at 56 days; I'm waiting on the rest.

The colas feel loose and leafy

but the cut of Sadhu
that has gotten mostly HPS is packing some on
& should be dense.
 
hoosierdaddy

hoosierdaddy

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
IMO, the "blockiness" is due to the test being done digitally as opposed to analog.

The test with the three overlays is of 1)Daylight 2)Flouro 3) Incandescent
The values are the same and yes, this would be a trusting graphic IMO too.
And it is the very same as the Philips graphing, only it is overlayed onto one graph. The philips display uses two separate graphs, and only those who would claim they are using a different scale for each graph deceptively would see it as a skewed comparison.
 
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cashmunny

Member
whatissixbynine said:
hey whatsup there bud - ok if you look at the axes on the graphs:

all the hps are labeled on the vertical axis with
" radiant power (µW 10nm/Lumens) "
also we can see the graphs are very blocky. Usually this is from the measuring precision [accuracy != precision].

the one cmh graph we have to work with is labeled on the vertical axis with W*nm - not sure if that's an I / j , or what, perhaps i'll have to find the source of the pic.
secondly we see the graph is very detailed in comparison with the hps.
Click to expand...

I would think it should be watts per nanometer rather than watts*nanometers. Looks like a typo to me. I have no idea what kind of unit a µW 10nm/Lumens is. That unit works out to 10E-23 * (Watts per nm) /(lumens per square meter)

Kind of interesting the big drop in the middle of the one HPS graph (fourth down from the overlay), I wonder if that's an error or if it's real?

I'm not sure I understand the question regarding the relative power spectral density charts that have been overlayed. A data group that has been normalized into a relative fraction can't be compared on an absolute basis with other groups because the other groups use a different constant for normalization. You can say that one spectrum shows more consistency in output than another one based on relative fraction. But the normalization process destroys any basis for comparison on an absolute basis. Looking at those charts, without knowing anything else, you could never tell which lamp threw out more photons, either total or within a narrow band. If the sun were a gigantic HPS bulb, plotted on that overlay it would look the same as a 400 watt bulb once you've scaled the output into relative fraction.
 
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cashmunny

Member
That's kind of weird, I was going to ask what that jumble of numbers was at the bottom of your post, then I hit quote, and it appeared in the quote in tabular format. Did you insert some kind of excel spreadsheet or some funky formatted table? How'd you do that anyway?

That sharp narrow drop on the fourth curve, looks like an absorption line for something. I don't know what else would produce that. Looking at those curves of the HPS versus the enhanced HPS they don't look that different EXCEPT for the sharp narrow gap and the enhanced far red. I thought enhanced bulbs were supposed to be more blue-ish? It looks like they might have applied a very specific phosphor to the bulb that absorbs strongly at a specific wavelength in the orange and re-emits in the far red.
 
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cashmunny

Member
whatissixbynine said:
i copy pasted the page in, and saved.



essentially we could create teh graphs, and might be able to convert to real numbers that can be compaired, however it looks like there are several unknowns preventing us with the data given ;)

and based on how hard they make it, and how they do not directly compare the two bulbs, i refuse to believe i'm looking at the 'same thing'; which means i'm not, which means its not a relavant comparison. which makes me believe there's probably some serious fudge factor going on - its life, thats manufacturers, at least we're not buying parts from Nvidia - they dont know what the truth IS anymore lol
Click to expand...

I thought Nvidia was great compared to ATI?

Anyway, I completely agree the manufacurers are painting a misleading picture. Instead of seeing graphs, I'd like some company sponsored side by side grows.
 
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cashmunny

Member
whatissixbynine said:
hehe this would do little for us. You get three trys as to why.

oh and its a bit offtopic, but nvidia is basically made of fail now. and has been for about 2yrs, and will be for at least another.

THEY HAVE NO VIDEO CARD FOR THIS ROUND, OR LAST ROUND, OR NEXT ROUND. THE FERMI WAS FAKED.

ANYWAY have a nice day hehe
Click to expand...

OK, maybe company sponsored side by side grows wouldn't be a good idea. They'd have every employee in the place take a piss in the the reservoir and then say, see the plants grown with [insert hyped product name here] did 1000% better.
 
FreezerBoy

FreezerBoy

Was blind but now IC Puckbunny in Training
Veteran
:hijacked:
Tradition says losses are written in red while profits are written in black. Black Friday is the day after American Thanksgiving. Often, the busiest shopping day of the year. Many stores use huge sales and "loss leaders" (items sold for less than the store paid) to start the frenzy of the X-Mas buying season.
 
simba

simba

Sleeping Dragon
heya all me buddies..
1. SPD CHarts (Horticulture lamps are the most skewed out there
as most growers (even the most experaicne growers) Cant really tell how skewed the SPD is.. (also most go after lumens so there unknowingly are seeking less effeciant lamps (to the plant watt vs result)
within that
the philips chart can be debated all day long I doubt it but for aurgument sake lets say its a bit skewed (the power at each peak)
overall its still got nice curve, total output. red/blue ranges.

(cutting this real short.super tired..and its going to get long if i keep going.. at each point..)

take a look at wallmart fruit section they are using 3k cmh to liven up the fruit.. if the spd did not match the output they wouldn't be using them..(as even at 20 feet up it still gives the fruit energy to stay colorful.. etc..)
CMH spds are generally accurate from GE and Philips.. if not the commercial specifiers and musiems wouldn't use CMH.. (lies dont sell in Real commercial lighting field (where these philips HPS retros came from)

(also im not really sure what the complaint is of the spd..i look at it for the overall range.. and compare within that SPD then once i feel i have that down then compare avg ranges curves to another lamp.. No mater how skewed the Left is the ranges will be comparible.)

2.leafy buds.. that has come up before (greenday i think u have had that problem before, have you switched strains))
most times i hear that i say go after better strain and that issue goes away.. (or you can reseed and grow out the Phenos of that strain to find wich does the best under full spd..
what all forget allot of these breeders use HPS as there lamp and when the plants get full spd again they go a lil wierd.. I have seen this with some nirvania beans i had before great under hps cloned and moved outdoors and was not same.. But reseeded and found a goodie.. (that was when before CMH)
its a lamp that emits full spd. its not emiting any thing the plant hasnt seen in nature.. so its hard pressed to put that on the lamp unless all strains/phenos did that..

to adv techs sales..
i know they do there sales for the customers best interest not to keep there sales up..they are a commercial lighting outfit.
honestly at this point cmh has its name they could be like others and charge up to 90 for this lamp or go one worse and claim its there own or make chinese copies.. use new terms to peeps..
(honestly the lamp is priced cheap.. at a retail outlet id pay 75 cause they are there local and have the stock for you and some knowledge (hopefully)
= they have extended the sale as the economy is still under the gun.... why charge what the market can bear when you can charge a fair price if not better than fair.. for the greater good..
PAY IT FORWARD>>:smokeit:

OH the 430 question (those are marketing at there best custom ballast custom lamp at crazy prices vs a standard 400 hps and no real dif in spd..
NO and yes..
NO you will void warranty and posiblly blow the lamp..
Yes the cmh can be overpowered by X% sorry cant say exact 10%< >30% IE more than 10 less than 30%.. if in a enclosed fixture using protected glass..thats only for lab useage..
as it will shorten the ballast life aswell..
 
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