Very interesting, thanks !
-
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C
coxswain
How do we get this lamps in Europe?
The 250w and 400w protected retrofit suggested in this thread seem to be locally unavailable in Europe, but advancedtechlighting does ship internationally, as well as a few other sites which could be a bit cheaper lampwise (but probably not shippingwise). I actually went with them because the thread makes clear they preburn lamps, have great support and are trusted. They should just tweak a bit their site, some lamps currently do not have links to buy them direct.
By the way guys, have you seen Philips is starting delivering a series of unprotected 315w and 210w lamps with a lumen/w ratio in the range of 120? This is insane, unfortunately for the moment they are 3k as far as color is concerned, and I believe Simba said 4k is good for growing (3k should work comparable to HPS, isn't it Simba?)...
The good news is they say "The 4200 K range will be commercially available from September 2009 onwards", so they are working on it; moreover they say:
"What about a protected version?
A solution for open luminaires is part of the roadmap. If the feasibility study is successful, a launch will be planned end of 2009."
The lamp is now on the Philips Lighting catalogue, on the net you can find a design-in sheet and a couple presentations, one of which is marked "confidential" (but is dated may 2008, maybe it was confidential at that time). I wonder whether putting out such documents could not be a sort of viral marketing technique, anyway here are some links:
Lighting website
Presentation 1
Presentation 2
Design-in sheet
What do you think about this guys?
Does anybody know perhaps the prices of lamp, connector and ballast? Unfortunately they have made everything proprietary, I fear that being on the forefront of this technology with competitors lagging behind, prices might be off for us... especially considering they say the ballast will have to be electronic
PS: read presentation 1, it has got a lot of data, page 28 has the spectral distribution, maybe 3k has improved as well? You lose a bit on the UV and blue but has a bit more on the far red. The more I read the more it looks like this lamp is the shit, lumen maintenance has improved, ballast can drive both 210 and 315 lamps...
By the way guys, have you seen Philips is starting delivering a series of unprotected 315w and 210w lamps with a lumen/w ratio in the range of 120? This is insane, unfortunately for the moment they are 3k as far as color is concerned, and I believe Simba said 4k is good for growing (3k should work comparable to HPS, isn't it Simba?)...
The good news is they say "The 4200 K range will be commercially available from September 2009 onwards", so they are working on it; moreover they say:
"What about a protected version?
A solution for open luminaires is part of the roadmap. If the feasibility study is successful, a launch will be planned end of 2009."
The lamp is now on the Philips Lighting catalogue, on the net you can find a design-in sheet and a couple presentations, one of which is marked "confidential" (but is dated may 2008, maybe it was confidential at that time). I wonder whether putting out such documents could not be a sort of viral marketing technique, anyway here are some links:
Lighting website
Presentation 1
Presentation 2
Design-in sheet
What do you think about this guys?
Does anybody know perhaps the prices of lamp, connector and ballast? Unfortunately they have made everything proprietary, I fear that being on the forefront of this technology with competitors lagging behind, prices might be off for us... especially considering they say the ballast will have to be electronic
PS: read presentation 1, it has got a lot of data, page 28 has the spectral distribution, maybe 3k has improved as well? You lose a bit on the UV and blue but has a bit more on the far red. The more I read the more it looks like this lamp is the shit, lumen maintenance has improved, ballast can drive both 210 and 315 lamps...
simba
Sleeping Dragon
Rip Great Post/Info.
good and bad news on cdm elite mw.
(We been waiting for this lamp for a Long time)
(we have discussed this lamp a few times here before, getting closer though.. YA!!!)
Unfort there not avail to the general public yet Only OEM even after init release.
IE only fixture manufactures at the moment.
*(have had a few come threw and i like the 3k and 4k samples.. not enough feedback yet on which is better for flowering or using both one for veg other for bloom)
sales of the lamps and ballasts outside of a fixture will be about a year later than init release for each model as no fixture out there now accepts that bulb style nor is matched to the reflector (commercial) and kinda will be an undesirable output
also if you could go buy a fixture now you would have a year warranty on bulb so why would they have a retail version.. until at least 8mo.. kinda a waist of resources to get a product to the shelf that wont be bought for at least 8 months.
Pricing.
LMFAO>.
expect lamp to retail 80+
ballast its advance and New and Proprietary so again expect $180-200Retail.
connector 20+ retail
all USD, and yes that high even at cheapest source.
now with all that said that is what info i had a few months ago and would have gotten an email with update on Public availability coming sooner. thus allowing companies to retail these.
The short version is they don't want people to buy these and retrofit there current MH or HPS fixtures to these for a few reasons.
now to the total downside. the ballast run on 200+ V no 120V (house plugs)
and no way to a inverter i have tried and Popped a ballast ***MudaFakcur****
the reason for the 200-277VAC is because its electronic ballast and at 120V the Electronic components cant keep up with a Brownout or surges.. as generally the 200, 277vac feeds have plenty of current if the voltage drops. IE if input voltage drops amp draw goes up to compensate for dip.. (IE a device at 120vac would pull a 2amps but at 240vac it would only draw 1 amp.. thus if there was a dip in power the amps are generally there
above is stated in comens sense terms not scientific so dont take out of context of the example trying to show.
we dont have 200 or even 277 at our houses
277 volts is taken from one leg to the neutral lead of the 480 volt three phase line 277*1.73=479.21VAC
now with some electronics that are rated 200-277 i have seen them run fine at 240VAC..
(im super tired so i may not make sense or get it all out there so i may edit.
as far as protected versions..
in that bulb size/shape it is hard to make them protected. (cant go into the few details) but in short probably not for 1.5-2 years from now
1. profitability, these will HURT the MH and HPS sales
2. saftey of modifying the current fixture to mount the new gear will no longer be a ul cert fixture.. etc.
3. its so new they want to make sure they get a good name from the start by not having Jerry rigged units using these possibly unjustly hurting the MW name cause issues from retrofits.
and the last bit of good news in the next series of these look for application specific series.with matched SPD to application.
(not on the front burner though)
wait for the prices on them puppies..
last point. yes at that time confidential however they are ramping up there marketing efforts for fixture manufactures (so they can Get a jump start on Fixture Ideas and plans, and commercial, consumer customers (customers so the demand is built from the ground up Cause sell cust on great benefits then say price, harder for customer to say no after they fell in love. Thats my opinion.
http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/218313.pdf
http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/220624.pdf
http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/220632.pdf
http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/220640.pdf
Im sure Adv Tech will have it for public sale as soon as they can.
good and bad news on cdm elite mw.
(We been waiting for this lamp for a Long time)
(we have discussed this lamp a few times here before, getting closer though.. YA!!!)
Unfort there not avail to the general public yet Only OEM even after init release.
IE only fixture manufactures at the moment.
*(have had a few come threw and i like the 3k and 4k samples.. not enough feedback yet on which is better for flowering or using both one for veg other for bloom)
sales of the lamps and ballasts outside of a fixture will be about a year later than init release for each model as no fixture out there now accepts that bulb style nor is matched to the reflector (commercial) and kinda will be an undesirable output
also if you could go buy a fixture now you would have a year warranty on bulb so why would they have a retail version.. until at least 8mo.. kinda a waist of resources to get a product to the shelf that wont be bought for at least 8 months.
Pricing.
LMFAO>.
expect lamp to retail 80+
ballast its advance and New and Proprietary so again expect $180-200Retail.
connector 20+ retail
all USD, and yes that high even at cheapest source.
now with all that said that is what info i had a few months ago and would have gotten an email with update on Public availability coming sooner. thus allowing companies to retail these.
The short version is they don't want people to buy these and retrofit there current MH or HPS fixtures to these for a few reasons.
now to the total downside. the ballast run on 200+ V no 120V (house plugs)
and no way to a inverter i have tried and Popped a ballast ***MudaFakcur****
the reason for the 200-277VAC is because its electronic ballast and at 120V the Electronic components cant keep up with a Brownout or surges.. as generally the 200, 277vac feeds have plenty of current if the voltage drops. IE if input voltage drops amp draw goes up to compensate for dip.. (IE a device at 120vac would pull a 2amps but at 240vac it would only draw 1 amp.. thus if there was a dip in power the amps are generally there
above is stated in comens sense terms not scientific so dont take out of context of the example trying to show.
we dont have 200 or even 277 at our houses
277 volts is taken from one leg to the neutral lead of the 480 volt three phase line 277*1.73=479.21VAC
now with some electronics that are rated 200-277 i have seen them run fine at 240VAC..
(im super tired so i may not make sense or get it all out there so i may edit.
as far as protected versions..
in that bulb size/shape it is hard to make them protected. (cant go into the few details) but in short probably not for 1.5-2 years from now
1. profitability, these will HURT the MH and HPS sales
2. saftey of modifying the current fixture to mount the new gear will no longer be a ul cert fixture.. etc.
3. its so new they want to make sure they get a good name from the start by not having Jerry rigged units using these possibly unjustly hurting the MW name cause issues from retrofits.
and the last bit of good news in the next series of these look for application specific series.with matched SPD to application.
(not on the front burner though)
wait for the prices on them puppies..
last point. yes at that time confidential however they are ramping up there marketing efforts for fixture manufactures (so they can Get a jump start on Fixture Ideas and plans, and commercial, consumer customers (customers so the demand is built from the ground up Cause sell cust on great benefits then say price, harder for customer to say no after they fell in love. Thats my opinion.
http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/218313.pdf
http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/220624.pdf
http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/220632.pdf
http://www.lighting.philips.com/us_en/browseliterature/download/220640.pdf
Im sure Adv Tech will have it for public sale as soon as they can.
Last edited:
nice. over 100 mean lumens per watt (40% of rated life_
and for 20,000 hours.
nice spectrum & color rendering (makes plants & flowers look beautiful)
SIDE NOTE: They expect LED's to reach 150 lumens per watt output
in the near future.
and for 20,000 hours.
nice spectrum & color rendering (makes plants & flowers look beautiful)
SIDE NOTE: They expect LED's to reach 150 lumens per watt output
in the near future.
Hey guys,
it has probably been mentioned already in the thread, but the thread is a bit broken so search doesn't work well (too many posts deleted I believe), so:
as far as experience goes, does CMH light produce more ceilingless smoke?
I've heard that HPS smoke is usually heavier than outdoor-produced and some say it is because of the sunlight, which is more complete and creates a "more complete resin".
Do we have any evidence of that?
Thanks
ripman
Ps: Onegreenday, I see we are following the same threads, do you have any more info or links about the LEDs statement? For the moment what I see is that LED technology is not yet a wise choice... LEDs cost a lot now (more than 100$ for a 45w panel, if I'm not wrong, the 90w UFO is at least 300$ I believe) and people suggest they must still be supplemented by CFL's white light. Also many say LEDs give a tolerable quality of life for 50.000+ hours, so one should factor this in comparing the total cost of ownership with respect to other light choices... the point is such statement is just marketing, as the LEDs of 12 months ago are totally inefficient compared to the current ones... and the current ones will be obsolete in 12 months... to the point you'll get more savings by buying the new ones in 12 months, as they will be much more efficient... so LEDs for now are, to me, out of question for horticultural applications.
Simba, I've seen you are testing sulphur plasma and xenon as well, I've understood sulphur is too complex, high-cost and not UL-rated (you get interference with other electronic appliances, correct?), could you tell us more about xenon instead?
it has probably been mentioned already in the thread, but the thread is a bit broken so search doesn't work well (too many posts deleted I believe), so:
as far as experience goes, does CMH light produce more ceilingless smoke?
I've heard that HPS smoke is usually heavier than outdoor-produced and some say it is because of the sunlight, which is more complete and creates a "more complete resin".
Do we have any evidence of that?
Thanks
ripman
Ps: Onegreenday, I see we are following the same threads, do you have any more info or links about the LEDs statement? For the moment what I see is that LED technology is not yet a wise choice... LEDs cost a lot now (more than 100$ for a 45w panel, if I'm not wrong, the 90w UFO is at least 300$ I believe) and people suggest they must still be supplemented by CFL's white light. Also many say LEDs give a tolerable quality of life for 50.000+ hours, so one should factor this in comparing the total cost of ownership with respect to other light choices... the point is such statement is just marketing, as the LEDs of 12 months ago are totally inefficient compared to the current ones... and the current ones will be obsolete in 12 months... to the point you'll get more savings by buying the new ones in 12 months, as they will be much more efficient... so LEDs for now are, to me, out of question for horticultural applications.
Simba, I've seen you are testing sulphur plasma and xenon as well, I've understood sulphur is too complex, high-cost and not UL-rated (you get interference with other electronic appliances, correct?), could you tell us more about xenon instead?
http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/matthews_chicago09.pdf
not in a grow light yet but here's the study:
LED Lights LCA Studies
Both the Carnegie Mellon and Osram studies found that production is a relatively small portion of the total life-cycle impact of the different lightbulb technologies. From the Osram study: "[with LEDs and CFLs] over 98% of the energy used is consumed to generate light. Less than two percent is allocated to production. This dismisses any concern that manufacturing of LED particularly might be very energy-intensive."
When comparing LEDs that produce about 30 lumens/watt to CFLs, the results are very close, and for all practical purposes, we can say that LEDs are as energy efficient as CFLs. But LEDs are still improving and they do not contain mercury, which makes their disposal less hazardous than CFLs. The Carnegie Mellon study predicts that efficiencies of 150 lumens/watt are possible for LEDs:
not in a grow light yet but here's the study:
LED Lights LCA Studies
Both the Carnegie Mellon and Osram studies found that production is a relatively small portion of the total life-cycle impact of the different lightbulb technologies. From the Osram study: "[with LEDs and CFLs] over 98% of the energy used is consumed to generate light. Less than two percent is allocated to production. This dismisses any concern that manufacturing of LED particularly might be very energy-intensive."
When comparing LEDs that produce about 30 lumens/watt to CFLs, the results are very close, and for all practical purposes, we can say that LEDs are as energy efficient as CFLs. But LEDs are still improving and they do not contain mercury, which makes their disposal less hazardous than CFLs. The Carnegie Mellon study predicts that efficiencies of 150 lumens/watt are possible for LEDs:
simba
Sleeping Dragon
Rip ya advancedtechlighting isn't the cheapest for lamp but only by 3-4 bucks and there shipping is cheaper than anyone around.. so its same price as others or even less.
also they preburn as you say, warranty direct threw them.. and is into RD big time.i kid ya not Like most of there resources are in RD over sales. for the greater good..
Quote :"Simba, I've seen you are testing sulphur plasma and xenon as well, I've understood sulphur is too complex, high-cost and not UL-rated (you get interference with other electronic appliances, correct?), could you tell us more about xenon instead?"
yes i be..
sulfur honeslty is not a grow lamp.at least with current Versions i have seen.. yellow/green output.. Nice for Football Pitch...it works for horti by brute force. its geared to Outdoor lighting
and yes currently no UL or FCC but changing.. basicly it lasts if working but high Failure rates..
Xenon is full SPD more simular to CMH than Sulfur, Xe has drawbacks, Short life, Low lumen Maint.. Price no high wattage avail.
CMH is truly the end to all other lamps as its full SPD with SPD from Warm to Cool avail. not joking you will even see 20-100 watt CMH house lamps soon..
soon there is going to be RF CMH. 3 companies are on that now YA!!!!!!! (advtech is one)
Every lamp Co has ramped up CMH development and production.. they are just going slow so they get the market share but dont cut off there current profitable HPS and MH lamps
Take a gander at MH probe vs MH Pulse no cost diff to mfr but allot more even at cost. vs probe..
as far as led not there yet.. philips actually has a few led arrays. showing promise and decent results. (tasty, flavorful) just visited a Test Site the other day and sampled. but cost and availability vs results sets it back. a bit..
also they preburn as you say, warranty direct threw them.. and is into RD big time.i kid ya not Like most of there resources are in RD over sales. for the greater good..
Quote :"Simba, I've seen you are testing sulphur plasma and xenon as well, I've understood sulphur is too complex, high-cost and not UL-rated (you get interference with other electronic appliances, correct?), could you tell us more about xenon instead?"
yes i be..
sulfur honeslty is not a grow lamp.at least with current Versions i have seen.. yellow/green output.. Nice for Football Pitch...it works for horti by brute force. its geared to Outdoor lighting
and yes currently no UL or FCC but changing.. basicly it lasts if working but high Failure rates..
Xenon is full SPD more simular to CMH than Sulfur, Xe has drawbacks, Short life, Low lumen Maint.. Price no high wattage avail.
CMH is truly the end to all other lamps as its full SPD with SPD from Warm to Cool avail. not joking you will even see 20-100 watt CMH house lamps soon..
soon there is going to be RF CMH. 3 companies are on that now YA!!!!!!! (advtech is one)
Every lamp Co has ramped up CMH development and production.. they are just going slow so they get the market share but dont cut off there current profitable HPS and MH lamps
Take a gander at MH probe vs MH Pulse no cost diff to mfr but allot more even at cost. vs probe..
as far as led not there yet.. philips actually has a few led arrays. showing promise and decent results. (tasty, flavorful) just visited a Test Site the other day and sampled. but cost and availability vs results sets it back. a bit..
they talk about white led, a white led with 30lm/w is nothing close to a cfl while 150lm/w sounds good i wouldnt be surprised if that 150lm/w leds wont be more efficient as for example the elite mw, ithink to remember white leds had a spectrum containig way less energy compared to hid with high cri but on the other hand 40%+ efficient monochromatic led in red would kick ass but so far only blues reach that and the amount of blue needed for flowering is very limited
simba
Sleeping Dragon
LEDS for me is a double edge sward
led gets my attention because,
putting aside any future power gains.. or eco savings
are that leds are Very efficient at most 180x180 Degree output and there ability to direct the light energy is very easily controlled to give even tighter output
.IE exactly where you want it.
vs cfl wich is 360x360 and is very difficult to get half the energy where you want it (in a controlled output like in horti) (i LMFAO when i see a 150 watt CFL (those big things), in those horizontal reflectors. to get there max efficiency you need to go vertical and even then most energy is dissipated by the time it gets to plant level. and still not directed the way you want truelly.. Yes you get results but not as good as you can with HID 100 watt (pref cmh) its allot easier to manage the energy from a small light source than a larger one
yet another reason for looking into RF CMH or other RF lamps using Small Arc Tubes that can be collected and put where wanted more efficiently.
so the led intensity may be low but it gets the same job done with less energy.take a gander at led tail lights they use few hundred milliamps but there incandescent counter parts are 8+Watts.. (OEM UNITS)
thats because 90%+ the energy outputted from the led is directed where its needed with very little wasted. whereas in incan you need allot cause its 360x360 and harder to collect and direct and within that the efficiency of bulb vs reflector.. etc..
to the eco part . most of that is marketing in my opinion for many reasons. (yes i will give you they are allot better than CFL.)
1.Honestly the lack of mercury for disposal alone doesn't sell me on LED
2.with any product i look at whats the total enviro cost from manufacturing every led component (power supply which has many components, LED heat sink, epoxies/resins, optic holder, optics, casing, outer lens) threw disposal and recycling.. vs cfl or incan.. (led does come out ahead of CFL in that regard because of the mercury alone but not as a total sell)
2.1 if one led goes out cant replace it the whole thing is done. (most units out there) with that i have seen so many led units replaced or even gone back to CFL, Low-wattage HID, or even Incan because of failures. (cheap LED units) even the best led units (Lighting Science Group units are only 50-70k hours yet could be 100K if they uped the Heat dissipation on led array and PS.)
k i just spaced>> been long day already.. it may be bit jumpy..
ill edit later. and spell check it.
but in short dont discount led for there LPW rather there current crazy prices vs results.
led in 3-5 years will be different using few pucks as an array will be common. these little units that are all leds in one unit wont ever be there cause of shadowing etc (directed energy) and the current many puck units don't have enough kick from each source for the high light plants.
the other thing plants want all nm ranges of light not just monochromatic which all leds except white are.. Philips has IR leds in there pucks.. Wise choice. IR is so needed just not a crap load like HPS or MH CMH IR is perfect..
as far as led output there white mimics the output of a Eye Horti Blue., bit more blue than red..
ya red leds are way behind on energy efficiency than there blue ranged counterparts.
they are about 3 years behind IMPHO..
i remember syvlania showing us a 1,000 lumen LED Puck wasn't to big under 6x6" (oh crap if that thing died) that was in 2006 they have shown a few more powerful units recently
http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogue/catalogue.do?favOid=000000010001fefb00550023&act=showBookmark
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/4/2/10
Osram unveils life-cycle assessment of LED lamps
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/8/4
that is part of the total life cost i mention earlier but it doesn't take in average all led units rather just there latest greatest that only they have.. and they dont take in account the premature failures that require whole unit replaced.
but getting there
led gets my attention because,
putting aside any future power gains.. or eco savings
are that leds are Very efficient at most 180x180 Degree output and there ability to direct the light energy is very easily controlled to give even tighter output
.IE exactly where you want it.
vs cfl wich is 360x360 and is very difficult to get half the energy where you want it (in a controlled output like in horti) (i LMFAO when i see a 150 watt CFL (those big things), in those horizontal reflectors. to get there max efficiency you need to go vertical and even then most energy is dissipated by the time it gets to plant level. and still not directed the way you want truelly.. Yes you get results but not as good as you can with HID 100 watt (pref cmh) its allot easier to manage the energy from a small light source than a larger one
yet another reason for looking into RF CMH or other RF lamps using Small Arc Tubes that can be collected and put where wanted more efficiently.
so the led intensity may be low but it gets the same job done with less energy.take a gander at led tail lights they use few hundred milliamps but there incandescent counter parts are 8+Watts.. (OEM UNITS)
thats because 90%+ the energy outputted from the led is directed where its needed with very little wasted. whereas in incan you need allot cause its 360x360 and harder to collect and direct and within that the efficiency of bulb vs reflector.. etc..
to the eco part . most of that is marketing in my opinion for many reasons. (yes i will give you they are allot better than CFL.)
1.Honestly the lack of mercury for disposal alone doesn't sell me on LED
2.with any product i look at whats the total enviro cost from manufacturing every led component (power supply which has many components, LED heat sink, epoxies/resins, optic holder, optics, casing, outer lens) threw disposal and recycling.. vs cfl or incan.. (led does come out ahead of CFL in that regard because of the mercury alone but not as a total sell)
2.1 if one led goes out cant replace it the whole thing is done. (most units out there) with that i have seen so many led units replaced or even gone back to CFL, Low-wattage HID, or even Incan because of failures. (cheap LED units) even the best led units (Lighting Science Group units are only 50-70k hours yet could be 100K if they uped the Heat dissipation on led array and PS.)
k i just spaced>> been long day already.. it may be bit jumpy..
ill edit later. and spell check it.
but in short dont discount led for there LPW rather there current crazy prices vs results.
led in 3-5 years will be different using few pucks as an array will be common. these little units that are all leds in one unit wont ever be there cause of shadowing etc (directed energy) and the current many puck units don't have enough kick from each source for the high light plants.
the other thing plants want all nm ranges of light not just monochromatic which all leds except white are.. Philips has IR leds in there pucks.. Wise choice. IR is so needed just not a crap load like HPS or MH CMH IR is perfect..
as far as led output there white mimics the output of a Eye Horti Blue., bit more blue than red..
ya red leds are way behind on energy efficiency than there blue ranged counterparts.
they are about 3 years behind IMPHO..
i remember syvlania showing us a 1,000 lumen LED Puck wasn't to big under 6x6" (oh crap if that thing died) that was in 2006 they have shown a few more powerful units recently
http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogue/catalogue.do?favOid=000000010001fefb00550023&act=showBookmark
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/4/2/10
Osram unveils life-cycle assessment of LED lamps
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/6/8/4
that is part of the total life cost i mention earlier but it doesn't take in average all led units rather just there latest greatest that only they have.. and they dont take in account the premature failures that require whole unit replaced.
but getting there
Last edited:
Simba thanks for the very detailed answers. I read in your last reply that the current retrofit 4k CMHs have got a very all-around light, good on the IR as well. I remember though that you suggested as well, for I believe the last two weeks of bloom, people micromaxing could benefit in switching or supplementing CMH with a 10k MH. And you said something about another period in which it might be best to support CMH with some red light.
So, saying one really wants to micromax light for the best results irrespective of costs, which lamps would you suggest using during the various periods of the plant lifecycle?
Would you suggest for CMH, as some people are saying in this thread for HPS50% less light in last three weeks, to reduce light the last weeks of bloom? Would it make sense growing up to last 2-3 weeks on 400CMH and subsequently under 250W 10k MH?
Of course to do such micromanagement one needs to grow strains which have very similar flowering times, so most of the times sticking with a 400 CMH is probably the best option.
So, saying one really wants to micromax light for the best results irrespective of costs, which lamps would you suggest using during the various periods of the plant lifecycle?
Would you suggest for CMH, as some people are saying in this thread for HPS50% less light in last three weeks, to reduce light the last weeks of bloom? Would it make sense growing up to last 2-3 weeks on 400CMH and subsequently under 250W 10k MH?
Of course to do such micromanagement one needs to grow strains which have very similar flowering times, so most of the times sticking with a 400 CMH is probably the best option.
Bloombox with CMH?
Bloombox with CMH?
Wow, sooo much info!!
Okay, it looks like I don't have to worry about my "switchable" ballast as long as I keep it on the HPS side. (I have e-mailed BCNOrthern to get specs on ballast to be safe).
EDIT: It is a Lumatek Digital Ballast that does MH or HPS. That's bad isn't it?
The Bloombox has a glass shied to separate the plants from the light. Will this goof up a 400 watter CMH light (specifically the PHillips uber 400 watt light everyone here loves)?
Here is a link to the Bloombox specs and there is a pic of the ballast and glass setup on it.
Thanks so much for your time!
Bloombox with CMH?
Wow, sooo much info!!
Okay, it looks like I don't have to worry about my "switchable" ballast as long as I keep it on the HPS side. (I have e-mailed BCNOrthern to get specs on ballast to be safe).
EDIT: It is a Lumatek Digital Ballast that does MH or HPS. That's bad isn't it?
The Bloombox has a glass shied to separate the plants from the light. Will this goof up a 400 watter CMH light (specifically the PHillips uber 400 watt light everyone here loves)?
Here is a link to the Bloombox specs and there is a pic of the ballast and glass setup on it.
Thanks so much for your time!
simba
Sleeping Dragon
Rip, Ill come back to this in a bit..
NotMeYou,
This is a button for me.. so take this all with a grain of salt..
cmh requires Mag Core or GE ultramax (GE is the only E/D Ballast that can be used with CMH)
Yes the Horti/aqua Electronic and Digital are no good
there is NO Commercially Accepted 400+ Watt HPS Ballast..
Advance and GE are the 2 leaders with MH Pulse Start Ballasts up to 400 Watts.
whats that say when the big boys wont touch it. it means there are many limitations etc that one day will be overcome but not yet.
Eye Hortilux took 4 pages to Say NO Way to these Horti and Aqua E/D Ballasts.
We been saying this forever but they finally lost to many lamps due to warranty replacements so they went to find the cause..
http://www.eyehortilux.com/EYELU600.pdf
this is what lumatek says on there site at bottom here. http://www.lumatek.co.uk/generalproductinfo.htm
"If a unit has any leaking resin please relocate to a cooler area or place a fan near the ballasts."
WTF if its leaking im calling Fire brigade or demanding replacement.or Refund.
What kind of moron uses low melting point resin.. I would use a xxxxxx Resin.. (sorry i wont give them ideas)
here is a few lies EYE has proven..(can we say Marketing BS)
http://www.lumatek.co.uk/whyelectronicballasts.htm
"up to 30% more lumens output than some old style magnetic ballasts"
Um NO.. well compared to some OLD like 15 year old ballast that where used for 15 years maybe IE dying ballasts..
"More light equals more yield. We urge you to test this yourself with a good quality light meter."
Uhm according to the best E/D Ballast is +-30 watt output.. also most lamps are burning at a more yellow vs red range. (its a trick)
if u used a Spectrual unit you would see on e/d ballast they burn more yellow than red IE the higher Lumen rating. (this is my opinion after seeing first hand the same lamp on 2 ballasts)
"600w magnetic ballasts now draw up to 750w"
BS EYE says "600 watt lamp and ballast system to be about 690"
in there pdf. .so wheres the mag core 600W that draws 750 watt that lumatek is spouting..
there is a 750 watt hps but that was around long before these ballasts.
but from what Lumatek says its a 600w ballast drawing 750 watts.... BS>>
Lamps dont last as long with the current horti/aqua E/D Ballasts.. eye has even Proven.. they either Die, Pop, Or rattle apart. (and many users have shown on IC there Poped lamps)
any CB'ers out there?....
the ballast needs to be tuned to the lamp.. and there are to many variables.from one lamp model to another.
generally the high Quality lamps Philips, EYE, Last most life..
there is another thread we should use to further discuss E/D Ballasts..
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111885&page=5
NotMeYou,
This is a button for me.. so take this all with a grain of salt..
cmh requires Mag Core or GE ultramax (GE is the only E/D Ballast that can be used with CMH)
Yes the Horti/aqua Electronic and Digital are no good
there is NO Commercially Accepted 400+ Watt HPS Ballast..
Advance and GE are the 2 leaders with MH Pulse Start Ballasts up to 400 Watts.
whats that say when the big boys wont touch it. it means there are many limitations etc that one day will be overcome but not yet.
Eye Hortilux took 4 pages to Say NO Way to these Horti and Aqua E/D Ballasts.
We been saying this forever but they finally lost to many lamps due to warranty replacements so they went to find the cause..
http://www.eyehortilux.com/EYELU600.pdf
this is what lumatek says on there site at bottom here. http://www.lumatek.co.uk/generalproductinfo.htm
"If a unit has any leaking resin please relocate to a cooler area or place a fan near the ballasts."
WTF if its leaking im calling Fire brigade or demanding replacement.or Refund.
What kind of moron uses low melting point resin.. I would use a xxxxxx Resin.. (sorry i wont give them ideas)
here is a few lies EYE has proven..(can we say Marketing BS)
http://www.lumatek.co.uk/whyelectronicballasts.htm
"up to 30% more lumens output than some old style magnetic ballasts"
Um NO.. well compared to some OLD like 15 year old ballast that where used for 15 years maybe IE dying ballasts..
"More light equals more yield. We urge you to test this yourself with a good quality light meter."
Uhm according to the best E/D Ballast is +-30 watt output.. also most lamps are burning at a more yellow vs red range. (its a trick)
if u used a Spectrual unit you would see on e/d ballast they burn more yellow than red IE the higher Lumen rating. (this is my opinion after seeing first hand the same lamp on 2 ballasts)
"600w magnetic ballasts now draw up to 750w"
BS EYE says "600 watt lamp and ballast system to be about 690"
in there pdf. .so wheres the mag core 600W that draws 750 watt that lumatek is spouting..
there is a 750 watt hps but that was around long before these ballasts.
but from what Lumatek says its a 600w ballast drawing 750 watts.... BS>>
Lamps dont last as long with the current horti/aqua E/D Ballasts.. eye has even Proven.. they either Die, Pop, Or rattle apart. (and many users have shown on IC there Poped lamps)
any CB'ers out there?....
the ballast needs to be tuned to the lamp.. and there are to many variables.from one lamp model to another.
generally the high Quality lamps Philips, EYE, Last most life..
there is another thread we should use to further discuss E/D Ballasts..
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=111885&page=5
GE CMH?
GE CMH?
Hi Simba,
How about these bulbs?
http://www.gelighting.com/eu/resour...b/downloads/CMH_250_400W_Datasheet_090720.pdf
http://www.gelighting.com/eu/resour..._pub/downloads/CMH_OpenRated150wDataSheet.pdf
I 've tested these bulbs with great results.
The 3000K seems to work, there's enough blue in it but burns a little hotter than Philips 4000k retrofit.
The 150 w is great for veg, havent tested in bloom yet but it should work also.
Peace
GE CMH?
Hi Simba,
How about these bulbs?
http://www.gelighting.com/eu/resour...b/downloads/CMH_250_400W_Datasheet_090720.pdf
http://www.gelighting.com/eu/resour..._pub/downloads/CMH_OpenRated150wDataSheet.pdf
I 've tested these bulbs with great results.
The 3000K seems to work, there's enough blue in it but burns a little hotter than Philips 4000k retrofit.The 150 w is great for veg, havent tested in bloom yet but it should work also.
Peace
nice light. requires enclosed fixture but the lumen maintains (400 watt)
to 39,000 lumens; nice.
cri is a little lower.
to 39,000 lumens; nice.
cri is a little lower.
simba
Sleeping Dragon
there Decent Lights<
I kinda like them but I have seen better results with the Philips CMH Line for horti.
(also i keep getting flip-flop reviews)
Edited:
IMPHO the GE is a better Commercial Lamp vs philips as a Commercial, Horti, Aquarium lamp.
the ge lum maint isnt really the same. and has shorter life..
the ge charts show bit of UV/IR more than Philips so you have to delete that from your thoughts while looking at the two..
also GEs chart is labeled dif so look at the SPD pattern.(forget what they call the reletve energy that the chart says and give both a similar one in your head based off the known similarities in specific nm range .if that makes any kind of sense..
GReat find though.. We are always in search of new lamps that can outperform these and will Definitely let all know if we,i,forum find another lamp
Regarding the GE 400 watt, its decent but that higher lumen is from More yellow/green...IMPHO
looked hard at that vs P CMH side by side.
I have no preference to any one brand over another so i do look at all MFRs for the best for the application being used.
I kinda like them but I have seen better results with the Philips CMH Line for horti.
(also i keep getting flip-flop reviews)
Edited:
IMPHO the GE is a better Commercial Lamp vs philips as a Commercial, Horti, Aquarium lamp.
the ge lum maint isnt really the same. and has shorter life..
the ge charts show bit of UV/IR more than Philips so you have to delete that from your thoughts while looking at the two..
also GEs chart is labeled dif so look at the SPD pattern.(forget what they call the reletve energy that the chart says and give both a similar one in your head based off the known similarities in specific nm range .if that makes any kind of sense..
GReat find though.. We are always in search of new lamps that can outperform these and will Definitely let all know if we,i,forum find another lamp
Regarding the GE 400 watt, its decent but that higher lumen is from More yellow/green...IMPHO
looked hard at that vs P CMH side by side.
I have no preference to any one brand over another so i do look at all MFRs for the best for the application being used.
Last edited:
thanks simba nice info
I just purchased a HPS ballast for 400 Watt lamps. Sun System 10. Says S51 on it.
Can I just order the CMH bulb from Philips and it will screw into my Econowing reflector?
Or do I have to purchase and connect the ballast kit as well?
Can I just order the CMH bulb from Philips and it will screw into my Econowing reflector?
Or do I have to purchase and connect the ballast kit as well?
