Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[taureauchien]

i've got a small assortment going on.
mango, some kush mixes, white lightning, and some herijuana for my
braver friends.

the white lightning seems to react the best, but not sure if it is adding time to the flower period yet.
it makes the kush sloppy with resin but again not sure as to time addage.
this is first flower grow with cmh.
the only thing i see that i wish would happen is more intensity.
the 400's are great spectrum wise....but they are only 400's.
i read a post in this thread where someone said that the only difference of a 400 and a 600 or 1000 watt cmh is the heat. (or something along those lines)
i dont care about the heat, just suck it out of the room and add more cool air going in. if it would penetrate more into the canopy. but who knows, maybe 3 400's right next to each other will do what i want.
(although i still think 2 1000's would do better if they made them)

i saw that some people dont like the stretch from the blue spectrum.
i dont mind personally, it gives more room for buds. and so far the stretch hasnt been anything that noticeable from the hps.

i do hope these lights dont add on weeks to flowering.

 

[niacinamide]

i saw that some people dont like the stretch from the blue spectrum.

You got that backwards. :wink: The blue spectrum of light promotes tighter internode spacing.

 

[taureauchien]

oops

today all the plants look mega healthy. nice full dark green.
seems though the buds grow a lil slower than i'm used to seeing.
maybe its me being impatient and expecting too much from these bulbs.
i gotta say i like them just from the overall health of the plants.
if it adds a week to flowering, i guess i'll just subtract a week from veg.
and see if that works.
i do have a mexican sativa hybrid growing now that was from an outside
plant, and she is outgrowing/budding everything else!
the kush plants are so coated they just look greasy.
the rescued outdoor mangos are thriving, and its only been a week.
they were growing within 3 days of being yanked out of the ground.
i expected a month of recovery
ive read a lot about mixing hps with them but i'm getting to where i may just like it the way it is....even if it does add a week or so.
but who knows, they still have a month-6 weeks before cutting.

we shall see.


hey what happened to all the old posters who were supposed to come back with results!?!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

There are results all through this thread.
I haven't noticed any lengthening of flower time.
I have only had one plant in the last year of using this bulb that was crap. A WHL Double Gum that I recently grew was the leafiest, worst tasting crap my garden has ever seen.
Everything else that I have grown under this lamp has produced well, and was excellent weed. I do have a 150hps in with the 400cmh, but the top tails see very little of the hps, and it basically keeps the popcorn fattened up.

 

[taureauchien]

ok yeah i went and reread this thread....well most of it.
you're right there are a lot of result post that i had forgotten about.

i think it was good to go through it again, because it got me all fired up again!
i remember running the hps and i hated the heat issues, the yellow spectrum bothered my eyes, and then there was the electric bill.
even then i was running a 400 cmh in veg and the veg was outgrowing the flowering....i had to many plants at one time not that that is a bad thing.

i swear it looks like i dipped the kush in varnish, it is sooooo glazed with resin.
i also notised that the stems are thicker as well on all the plants.
so i've got bigger fan leaves that are nice dark healthy green.
thick stems, less heat, healthy fackin' plants, a kush that produces glazed donuts.
also i realized, i'm not watering/feeding as much. the soil stays moist longer...so that will cut cost as well.
i just hope my turnout is what i'm hoping it'll be.
i was doubting a few things at first for flowering, but things are turning around noticeably....especially the replants!!! that just amazes me!
pulling plants out of the ground and replanting them in pots, when i know i tore a major part of the rooting system, and they still turned around to healthy thriving TREES within a few days. that alone made the bulbs worth it!

i have a random question on reflectors.
do they make mirrored reflectors. i was thinking about a mirror my gf has that is magnified so you can see your pores and shit.
what if a reflector was made out of magnified mirror?
at 10x a 400 watt cmh would technically be 4000 right?
ok random stoned thought process.....but could it work, and do they make them.......or should i hurry up on the copyrights!

 

[sarek]

we tried two 1000W bulbs. They were unlabelled but they might have been 6000kelvin CMH. Their color was whiter than hortilux.

The results were NOT as good as hortilux. We bailed on them after 6 months. Whatever they were they were not as good.

 

[taureauchien]

today i had to do some fan leave trimming....wow.
now i see what everybody means by leafy, not that it is a bad thing.
i had to open up the canopy so i could have light hitting the lower buds.
its amazing what a week will do.
my indoor plants have passed up my outdoor plant, and they went out 2 weeks before i put the indoor ones into flower.
i know steady 12/12 speeds it up a lil' , but she isnt even flowering yet outdoors.....the breeding male is though.

indoors the buds are getting thick and hairy with some nice frost starting to cover the local leaves, and i still have atleast a month to go.

 

[tommyboi_420]

phew 174 pages!!!(and yes i read them all!!)

phew 174 pages!!!(and yes i read them all!!)

ok so im sold on these cmh bulbs so im going with 2 of theses CDM400S51/HOR/4K/ALTO and 2 of theses s51 ballest kits http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/so400-71c-211.htm now my first quesition is i have 2 hi bay/low bays that are 277v mh..i know they wont work on a cmh bulb..but i wanted to know if i could take the guts out of them and put in 1 s51 ballest kit in each housing??...and would the mogul sockets on my 2 mh's work with the bulbs???.....do the wht housing high,low/bays keep the ballest cool enough?,or would it be better to just make my own type of boxes for the kits??...i want to run the bulbs in some kind of diy cool tubes,or a cheap cooled hood(any idea's guys?) i know simba says no real need for a cool tube or hood,but it's gonna be summer here real soon and i need my closet to be as cool at it can be.also where are you simba??..um freezer boy?? pinball??...any ways here some pics of my h,l/bay ballest....more questions to come

 

[simba]

heya. been a while.. been so busy.. new stuff to.. YA!!!!!!

im reading the past pages since last visit and will answer any Q's i see..

Burn one if ya got one..

 

[KMK0420]

LOVING the growth in seedling/veg stage with the CMH..

but i also bought an HPS strictly for flowering. sorry, not going all the way through flowering with CMH...may use it to supplement (ie, use it for 1 or 2 weeks of flowering at different times) but other than that, as soon as i switch to 12/12, i'm going from CMH to HPS.

here's a baby at about 11 or 12 days old under a cmh..

 

[messn'n'gommin']

ok so im sold on these cmh bulbs so im going with 2 of theses CDM400S51/HOR/4K/ALTO and 2 of theses s51 ballest kits http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/so400-71c-211.htm now my first quesition is i have 2 hi bay/low bays that are 277v mh..i know they wont work on a cmh bulb..but i wanted to know if i could take the guts out of them and put in 1 s51 ballest kit in each housing??...and would the mogul sockets on my 2 mh's work with the bulbs???.....do the wht housing high,low/bays keep the ballest cool enough?,or would it be better to just make my own type of boxes for the kits??...i want to run the bulbs in some kind of diy cool tubes,or a cheap cooled hood(any idea's guys?) i know simba says no real need for a cool tube or hood,but it's gonna be summer here real soon and i need my closet to be as cool at it can be.also where are you simba??..um freezer boy?? pinball??...any ways here some pics of my h,l/bay ballest....more questions to come

Ya...you can still use the sockets (mogul) and as long as the ballasts fit inside them, you can use the housings as well. But if temps are going to be a concern, I think you would be better off isolating the ballasts from the grow.

 

[onegreenday]

did a footcandle check

did a footcandle check

most here are not concerned with footcandles
but want the CMH spectrum

I got a 400 watt HPS Ushio Hilux grow lamp (seems to have more red
spectrum than the Hortilux I have next to it
and it reads 3800-4200
footcandle on a Phytotronics light meter.
This is a 30" parabolic umbrella type.

The 400 watt CMH I have running on a similar
reflector puts out 2800-3300 footcandle.

One thing about this Ushio bulb is the center-tube
inside the glass bulb envelope is at a steep side- angle
not straight down so it does not really center in the reflector,
even with the adjustments in the socket assembly.

looks like a manufacture flaw, not a major flaw (the lamp lights but it was very slow to kick on today) but something I don't think Hortilux would pass on to sell this quality (it was only $45.)

 

[eglider]

Wow, that's a lot of posts to read ... Real interesting stuff to a noob who hasnt committed to a method or system yet. Kudos to all you Capt.Kirk types who boldly go...
After hanging about a bit to suck up all I can, this thread, out of all the forums is the only one I've seen to use and discuss this seemingly very useful spectrum light. More useable light than MH & HPS. Looks to be more efficient at penetration at lower watts.
You guys are making me a believer seeing how the risk factor is limited to a $50 bulb. I really am suprised though that I havent seen more discussion of these cooler lamps, particularly with minigrowers constant struggle with temps.
Maybe this is the hangout of the bohemian Avante Guarde ? The modern equivalent of the Absinthe Greens and the Lotus Eaters of days gone by?

I do have a question for you tech types (you know who you are ...lol). Tommyboi (Thanks fer link) shows the ballast for the 400w . Say I bent up a shallow open box to mount ballast and drill for grommets and cords, can I just use screwdown wireties to mount the cap can and igniter? Further from the coil the better? Any secret formula? a heat divider?
Probably a dorky question but better to ask than to melt stuff. An 8-10' 16Ga. for power and light cord should be plenty to avoid problems w/ starting ? A diy ballast box pic would be neat if anyone knows a link . I'm sure the multitaps are all labled in the instructions but if you saw what I did to my vintage Fender tube amp you would understand my reluctance to re-enter a world where the book just aint enough...lol

Anyhoo Ive enjoyed this thread and will count myself amongst you soon. Thanks for taking the time and effort to post your experience. Keeps us with a tendency to make amuck a lifestyle somewhat on a beaten path ...

 

[Inspired333]

I loved this thread. I'm still stuck on what to get, and for what stages. I'm almost convinced that a quality set of T5's will be great for mothers/veg/seedling/clones. I'm on the fence about LED's. Gonna wait on those I think.

Anyway, about these CMH (by phillips) I can't figure out exactly what type of ballast I'd need, or 'reflector/hood' for that matter. I'm not about to wire something up or buy a "kit".

So my question is: What are some (please list one or two if you could?) digital ballasts that I could buy and run a horizontal 250W, 400W phillips master color CMH bulb off of? eg: lumatek digital ballas?
Same question for a lower watt like 150W - what ballast would work?

My last question is: Does PHILLIPS make a ballas for their own CMH light bulbs?
-That's what I really want, a "matching" brand ballast that I know will work seamlessly with--and is meant for the CMH bulb I chose to use.

Thanks for any suggestions, information, and recommendations. It is MUCH MUCH appreciated. There is alot of knowledgeable folks on ICMag.

Cheers everybody.

 

[eglider]

Inspired333
I'll answer only what I know fer a fact (Simba says so). CMH MUST HAVE A MAGNETIC COIL BALLAST TO WORK. Cant run on a newer digital or electronic ballasts. It'll work with MH mag. coil or HPS mag coil that will also start MH (dual or switchable). I'm probably more or less like yourself still gathering info. The more I read the smaller my plans get. I'm now tending to a smaller 400w. HPS/MH and try a CMH with it and T5 flourescent fer mom/veg.
If I go bigger later The 400w can do nicely as a veg room cooker. I just like the idea that its all about useable spectrum light and CMH has it and plants seem to like it. Since you have to have a backup light anyway ,(boonies) why not ?

Besides Philips and me go a long way back. My first cd player and then dvd player were from them, the leaders in both formats (I believe? dvd fer sure). I like a company that takes profits and comes up with new toys to amuse me.

Greens flame away all you want...Yes. I'm a consumer. So are you. When the Apocalypse comes I'll be eating you guys from my solar stove. Most people who are worried are stocking food... I'm stocking barbeque sauce.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Inspired333
For the 150 CMH you need a 150watt Pulse Start Hetal Halide ballast.
For the 250 and 400 CMH you need any magnetic coil 250 or 400 HPS ballast. (250w (ANSI S50) and 400w (ANSI S51) HPS)

 

[kronicundrum]

It seems alot of people want this information, so this is the cheapest best Ballast for the 400 CMH bulb

$55

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45693

Yes it is a DYI, but it is very ez and if you can grow you can put this together. Follow color directions, I mean comeon its ez.


I have been useing mine for the last 2 years without any problems.

Also I have gone through 4 harvests now with the same setup. After roughly 2 years the bulbs are only producing about 80% the weed as the 1st batch, so time for a new bulb. I might just get an HPS for flower, I am not sure what I should do.


Here is a link to 2 of my grow logs if interested.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=93625&highlight=microwido

 

[niacinamide]

My last question is: Does PHILLIPS make a ballas for their own CMH light bulbs?
-That's what I really want, a "matching" brand ballast that I know will work seamlessly with--and is meant for the CMH bulb I chose to use.

Philips doesn't directly make ballasts but they do own Advance as one of their divisions. I do know that there is a certain Advance ballast that only works with a particular Philips CDM bulb (mini MasterColor). However, other than that one isolated example, you should be able to use any number of ballast manufacturers to run a ceramic metal halide bulb. I personally use two 100 watt Vossloh Schwabe electronic ballasts and have had no complaints. Here is a list that they publish outlining bulb compatibility.

CMH MUST HAVE A MAGNETIC COIL BALLAST TO WORK.

There are a few electronic ballasts made by companies such as Advance, GE, Metrolight, and Vossloh Schwabe that can run ceramic metal halide bulbs. They are expensive if purchased new but they do tend to become cheap when they end up on eBay.

 

[eglider]

inspired333
Sorry to shoot off info that was incorrect and incomplete. Sometimes the urge to stick my foot in my mouth overcomes my common sense. My abject apologies.

Being a dumb noob at something at my age is somehow curiously liberating.

 

[Inspired333]

No sweat

No sweat

Thanks for the replies to my question.

I've done a little more research, and found that yes - GE does make digital, or electronic ballast (my understanding from researching digital vs. electronic ballasts in regards to HPS or regular MH lighting is that they are NOT the same - digital being the better) for its CMH bulbs up to and including 150 Watts.

I believe I read, on this forum, that Phillips MasterColor CMH bulb has better spectrum than the GE CMH bulbs though.

So my next question, maybe obvious(?), can I safely use a Phillips MasterColor CMH bulb with the GE digital CMH ballast of equal wattages, of course?

I can see no reason why not, but I know there are people here who have more knowledge on the subject. And I'm looking to you guys for any input again.

Thank you everyone.

Peace.