L
LolaGal
They sure do work good on pests though! No more wasps even! They were always flying around here before... Now they are gone too! I'm betting the DDT I already bathed in for decades will get me first... lol
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Caution when using "Hot Shot No-Pest Strips."
- Thread starter Mr.Hades
- Start date
Mr.Hades
Member
"The debate isn't whether it's carcinogenic, it's whether the specific NPS product leaves any kind of residue that settles on the plant. I've read all the links posted in this thread(the most recent one is 12 years old), and none of them suggest anything about that."
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp88-c1.pdf
Read this... "The most likely way a person would be exposed is by breathing in air contaminated"
"You might also be exposed to dichlorvos in home after pesticide application. You are most likely to be exposed by breathing air containing dichlorvos, but skin contact with contaminated surfaces, or eating food that has been left out during dichlorvos application can also result in exposure." "It is reccommended that people should not re-enter a room or house treated with dichlorvos until after a lo-hour ventilation period."
Read page 4 and section 1.4 aswell...
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp88-c1.pdf
Read this... "The most likely way a person would be exposed is by breathing in air contaminated"
"You might also be exposed to dichlorvos in home after pesticide application. You are most likely to be exposed by breathing air containing dichlorvos, but skin contact with contaminated surfaces, or eating food that has been left out during dichlorvos application can also result in exposure." "It is reccommended that people should not re-enter a room or house treated with dichlorvos until after a lo-hour ventilation period."
Read page 4 and section 1.4 aswell...
N
NOYB
OK I read that but I'm wondering if what they're talking about is for spray applications where there would be a tendency for it to saturate the environment easier and be more prevalent as super fine particles that could collect as a residue. The strips emit only a gas. Sure the ppm's will increase in a closed room as time goes on but since a gas don't know how it would collect unless something like resin can act as a magnet or simply like a glue that once the gas hits it and 'sticks'.
Once thing is when I used them it was at lights off only and cut ventilation. Plants do fine with no ventilation when they're sleeping. Many use them in an open system with air flowing day and night and no way for them to work well that way cause the gas concentration can never build to an effective level...from what I understand.
Once thing is when I used them it was at lights off only and cut ventilation. Plants do fine with no ventilation when they're sleeping. Many use them in an open system with air flowing day and night and no way for them to work well that way cause the gas concentration can never build to an effective level...from what I understand.
H
heavy dank nugg
the flowering plant breaths in the fumes and releases its not a residue its a gas. its non toxic to plants. and plants dont use the gas. just dont inhale it continuously yourself... a invisable gas sticking to plants... c'mon. just dont touch your buds to the yellow strip. and you WILL NOT get it on your plants.
The only sure way to not get cancer is to die. I beleive I heard that fried hamburger causes the big "C".
I have read the epa specs on this, and in the end it did not strike as being that toxic. The docs I read failed to prove an increase in human cancer (EPA list as posible and so to does the world health organization) , and aLways seems to deal with heavy concentraions, ie. for workers that manafacture the material.
Sometimes its is easier for a company to settle/agree to remarket, rather than to prove the negative that the cancer came from soomewhere else.
IIRC, while once widely used, say in pet flea collers and arial sprays, the epa restricted usage to the plastic pucks, and still allows use in food storage areas. If this was so dangerous, I think both eating and smoking would be bad. Also, diclorovos breaks down in air; does not need water.
Like a loaded gun there is danger. I feel that users should be aware, and make their own choices, bit unless you grow your own veggies and grains you are ingesting the residue anyway.
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/pesticides/factsheets/DDVP.pdf
"The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set a permissible exposure limit of 1 milligram dichlorvos per cubic meter of air (1mg/m3) for an 8-hour workday, 40 hour workweek."
http://www.patientsville.com/toxic/diclorvos.htm
"No evidence of carcinogenicity was found when rats were exposed to air containing up to 5 mg/m3 for 23 hours/day for 2 years (3). A few tumors were found in the esophagus of mice given dichlorvos orally, even though tumors of this kind are normally rare (9)."
"Feeding studies indicate that a dosage of dichlorvos very much larger than doses which inhibit cholinesterase are needed to produce illness. Rats tolerated dietary doses as high as 62.5 mg/kg/day for 90 days with no visible signs of illness, while a dietary level of 0.25 mg/kg/day for only 4 days produced a reduction in cholinesterase levels (3)."
"Dichlorvos is rapidly broken down in the air and in damp media such as soil. The pH of the media determines the rate of breakdown. Alkaline soils, water, etc., show rapid breakdown, whereas acidic media shows slow degradation. For instance, at a pH of 9.1 the half-life of dichlorvos is about 4.5 hours. At a pH of 1 (very acidic), the half- life is 50 hours (8). Dichlorvos is non-persistent."
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/dichlorvos-ext.html
In my mind, using a few of these for a week or two during lights out, to contol an infestation, and the produce cure for a few days should reduce tocicity to the degree that you likely have more likely carcinigens, such as vinyle off gassing, to worry about.
Just my .02 cents.
I have read the epa specs on this, and in the end it did not strike as being that toxic. The docs I read failed to prove an increase in human cancer (EPA list as posible and so to does the world health organization) , and aLways seems to deal with heavy concentraions, ie. for workers that manafacture the material.
Sometimes its is easier for a company to settle/agree to remarket, rather than to prove the negative that the cancer came from soomewhere else.
IIRC, while once widely used, say in pet flea collers and arial sprays, the epa restricted usage to the plastic pucks, and still allows use in food storage areas. If this was so dangerous, I think both eating and smoking would be bad. Also, diclorovos breaks down in air; does not need water.
Like a loaded gun there is danger. I feel that users should be aware, and make their own choices, bit unless you grow your own veggies and grains you are ingesting the residue anyway.
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/pesticides/factsheets/DDVP.pdf
"The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set a permissible exposure limit of 1 milligram dichlorvos per cubic meter of air (1mg/m3) for an 8-hour workday, 40 hour workweek."
http://www.patientsville.com/toxic/diclorvos.htm
"No evidence of carcinogenicity was found when rats were exposed to air containing up to 5 mg/m3 for 23 hours/day for 2 years (3). A few tumors were found in the esophagus of mice given dichlorvos orally, even though tumors of this kind are normally rare (9)."
"Feeding studies indicate that a dosage of dichlorvos very much larger than doses which inhibit cholinesterase are needed to produce illness. Rats tolerated dietary doses as high as 62.5 mg/kg/day for 90 days with no visible signs of illness, while a dietary level of 0.25 mg/kg/day for only 4 days produced a reduction in cholinesterase levels (3)."
"Dichlorvos is rapidly broken down in the air and in damp media such as soil. The pH of the media determines the rate of breakdown. Alkaline soils, water, etc., show rapid breakdown, whereas acidic media shows slow degradation. For instance, at a pH of 9.1 the half-life of dichlorvos is about 4.5 hours. At a pH of 1 (very acidic), the half- life is 50 hours (8). Dichlorvos is non-persistent."
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/dichlorvos-ext.html
In my mind, using a few of these for a week or two during lights out, to contol an infestation, and the produce cure for a few days should reduce tocicity to the degree that you likely have more likely carcinigens, such as vinyle off gassing, to worry about.
Just my .02 cents.
N
NOYB
Browned and burned foods particularly animal proteins can contain some of the most carcinogenic/mutagenic substances known.
Agree on the second part. I see many organic growers almost rage about the fact they grow organic yet most shut up when I ask them what kind of food they eat...lol. I do grow organic and eat mostly organic.
As for the strips, if you do use them, they should not be hanging all the time throughout the length of the grow anyway. I used them for a few 'nights' then for a few nights a week later and got rid of the mites. I had everything woven into a trellis net and no way to spray anything so had to resort to the strips.
I personally think the potential risk if used 'properly' negligible. If the application of dichlorvos was a spray it would be a totally different story.
Dichlorvos... Sounds like a Macedonian exchange student, or some lame Nu-Metal band.
Mr.Hades
Member
^^^ haha
It does sound like a metal band...
I dont know guys, The info is there... I just thought there should definately be a sticky thread to caution those who are using these strips improperly and even to those using them properly.
It's good to know exactly what you use in your home, and what you, your family, your pets and plants are breathing/ingesting.
It does sound like a metal band...
I dont know guys, The info is there... I just thought there should definately be a sticky thread to caution those who are using these strips improperly and even to those using them properly.
It's good to know exactly what you use in your home, and what you, your family, your pets and plants are breathing/ingesting.
N
NOYB
Haha...I'm not a vegetarian but used to be but ever since that info I came across definitely changed my eating habits a bit. It's what you do most of the time that really counts. Even though I'm very health conscious I don't get in a twist about things cause life ain't perfect. Like Dr. Dank said with vinyl off gassing. No way to get around being exposed to stuff...but I wouldn't take a bath in dichlorvos...lol.
I work in the health food industry and over the years had to do research, read MSDS's, do chemical residue tests, etc. When it came to using the strips I had no problem with em.
I work in the health food industry and over the years had to do research, read MSDS's, do chemical residue tests, etc. When it came to using the strips I had no problem with em.
snake mites
snake mites
If you google "no pest strips snake mites" you will discover that snake mites are to to reptile owners what "spidermites" are to cultivators.
As in our world, the no pest strips are contreversial in the reptile world as well.
I have read about growers spending several hours in a room with nps strips and getting bloody noses. Bloody noses have been reported in snakes as well (the snake I read about recovered several hours later).
There is no doubt that the NPS strips have killed and saved many reptiles. I even found some vet recommendations that were interesting such as never use a brand new strip with a live reptile.
Some advocate using the strip for steralizing the cage while the reptile is quaranteened somewhere else.
The previous post about Spider mites building tolerance to NPS in a room with open vents is true in my exprnce. I had an vented room and they never worked, no matter how many I put up. They would crawl right next to the strips. Once I sealed my room it was like genocide in there.
In my opinion, NPS strips are most useful in flower when you cant spray them. If you have a problem try to handle chit by leaving a bunch up for 1 week and put them away and keep your chit clean.
One very prestigous botanical researcher I spoke with (a UC Davis Prof) always stessed dosage when I talked to him about chemicals and toxicity.
He would tell me that anything is fatal in high enough dosage, even neem.
I would highly discourage anybody for using them an entire grow based on this principal.
snake mites
If you google "no pest strips snake mites" you will discover that snake mites are to to reptile owners what "spidermites" are to cultivators.
As in our world, the no pest strips are contreversial in the reptile world as well.
I have read about growers spending several hours in a room with nps strips and getting bloody noses. Bloody noses have been reported in snakes as well (the snake I read about recovered several hours later).
There is no doubt that the NPS strips have killed and saved many reptiles. I even found some vet recommendations that were interesting such as never use a brand new strip with a live reptile.
Some advocate using the strip for steralizing the cage while the reptile is quaranteened somewhere else.
The previous post about Spider mites building tolerance to NPS in a room with open vents is true in my exprnce. I had an vented room and they never worked, no matter how many I put up. They would crawl right next to the strips. Once I sealed my room it was like genocide in there.
In my opinion, NPS strips are most useful in flower when you cant spray them. If you have a problem try to handle chit by leaving a bunch up for 1 week and put them away and keep your chit clean.
One very prestigous botanical researcher I spoke with (a UC Davis Prof) always stessed dosage when I talked to him about chemicals and toxicity.
He would tell me that anything is fatal in high enough dosage, even neem.
I would highly discourage anybody for using them an entire grow based on this principal.
When I first tried these, they seemed to stop working after a month, that was when I realized that having a fan blow on it seemed to deplete it much faster than the four month time frame. I was concerned initially, but the fact that it breaks down pretty quickly made me feel better. My thinking is a new one at the start of bloom, removed after the stretch, should kill all bugs, then dissapate before the flowers get sticky. I may be wrong, but I eat a lot of my weed and have not had any neg effect, and I get annual blood tests for heart problems, and have no issue shown up there either. Good to be on top of it.
Why the name Mr. Hades?
H
Why the name Mr. Hades?
H
N
NOYB
First I would not, nor recommend to anybody, they spend a lot of time in a room with these things unless it's lights on in an open system and you have a good air exchange going. Even then only if you absolutely have to and no reason you should have to. I went into the room just before the lights went off and hung then pulled down when the ventilation kicked on when the lights came on. I also have ALWAYS vented my exhaust outside so would be different if someone is venting filtered air back into the house. While the carbon should clean up a lot I still would not do it.
"Once I sealed my room it was like genocide in there" That's the only way they are effective in my experience. I used them for a few days a week apart and eliminated a large thrip infestation and the beginning stages of a mite infestation in a friends space. Never used em again cause for starters it's very rare pests ever get into a room I'm dealing with. I take a lot of precautions and pays off. Filtered air, clean clothes, treat and quarantine cuts when I get em from someone, etc.
Yeah that dosage thing is basically referred to as LD50 (the amount of something that is a lethal dose for 50% of the test animals) when testing for toxicity. Problem also is chronic low grade exposure and not just getting hit hard all at once.
N
NOYB
Just trying to understand how you determined they stopped working after a month. Were pests continually entering your room? Were pests not there for a month then reappeared soon after?
B
Blue Dot
Nobody really dies from a one time exposure to insecticides but if you look at stats of like migrant farm workers who are chronically exposed to stuff like this they have way more medical problems and it's hard for medical science to trace the source of these medical problems to a specific incident of exposure.
It's the chronic low grade exposure to everything in the environment that causes a lot of illness in people but the epa and FDA just measure how toxic something is by a one time exposure which IMO is a serious diservive to the population and they do this because these big companies lobby them a lot, so don't look to the gov to tell you if something is safe.
greenpheen
Member
Great thread Mr. hades, thanks for passing that knowledge around. I will be using these on my first grow pretty soon. They still seem sketchy though. Hmmmm
T
TroubleGuy
I use mine like this right now but I've considered throwing them out because I've been aware of the risks.
Do you think it's a problem to have it in there with the exhaust turned off so it works at night, then removing them and turning on the exhaust during light's on?
Would a carbon scrubber remove the toxic elements from air that passes through it? I'm wondering because I exhaust into another room of the house and will stop doing so if the fumes can survive a carbon filter.
Do you think it's a problem to have it in there with the exhaust turned off so it works at night, then removing them and turning on the exhaust during light's on?
Would a carbon scrubber remove the toxic elements from air that passes through it? I'm wondering because I exhaust into another room of the house and will stop doing so if the fumes can survive a carbon filter.
