Carbs: A Wolf in Sheeps Clothing (warn)

[VerdantGreen]

Haha I don't think these guys actually grow marijuana.
I would love to see some pics.

hi dongle69 - my grow diary link is in my sig

 

[VerdantGreen]

firstly gd, having re-read the thread, i think there are some basic points that we agree on, namely -
1.that occasional low doses of molasses can be beneficial - i use occasionally in mid to late flower at 1 teaspoon per gallon (which is actually the dosage originally recommended by 3 little birds)
2. too much or too concentrated a solution may be detrimental - this applies to anything you add to water in order to help plants
3. unlikely that it makes the buds taste sweeter.

as mj suggested, calling molasses a 'wolf' is a little dramatic, and posting in every thread concerning molasses that it is useless doesnt really reflect the comments you have made here under cross-examination

The biggest problem with molasses is I highly doubt its a replacement for the many different exudes of plants.

i have never claimed it can replace plants exudes, but have suggested it may suppliment them to the plant's benefit

I don't think molasses can replace all the various exudes, carb or otherwise, the plant offers as food, communication, etc.

see above

Why are you even staying on this point? Why do you want to add molasses so badly?

you posted your theories about molasses on a discussion forum and i am discussing them - thats the way it works if you dont want to discuss your views then you should start a blog called 'the Gospel according to ganga din' and disable the comment facility.

Hey v
Here's a thought, which MJ already stated. I bet the reason people see benefits from molasses (growing convental or organic) is because their plants are stressed or injured, etc. Most probably those in organic situations have poor media bound organism numbers from too much fets (like guano). Or the plant is stressed and not producing and/or transporting sugars normally. By adding molasses they are mainlining food to microbes (faster than a plant can if exudes are food). Its the microbial reaction to the molasses which befits the plant the most, not the molasses itself. Most research I have read finds stressed or injured plants repond best to carbs like sugar in the drench water. But, its a small effect and effects roots, not 'above ground'.

as i said above, we agree on much of this.
different cannabis hybrids/phenos will have different nutritional requirements so unless you have run the same clone many times then you are unlikely to be giving each plant its exact perfect conditions.
one could also argue that a plant grown for sinsemilla , having been denied its raison d'etra, would be stressed - especially in mid - late flowering (which is when most people's experience has shown them that molasses can be helpful)

And as was mentioned, occasional application of molasses with ACT, etc is fine. But overuse is a different story, which is how probably 99% of people use molasses.

.
i have no real idea how others use molasses, given people's tenedency to overdo feeding you may be right, but this would be an issue arising from the incorrect use of molasses rather than it being useless in itself. (or indeed a wolf)

Also, besides Cervanties (in his book and HT mag) have you read the same info about sugar and yield? I have not. If you have not, I sure hope you believe Microbeman and myself over George in this matter.

i tend to take influence and learning from as many sources i can, including GC, MM and your good self. also fwiw, i do think that referring to others experience as 'conjecture' is insulting. you are also extrapolating an absolute conclusion on molasses from limited testing are you not ? is that conjecture too?

---

also gd i would be interested in more details of your experiments regarding molasses and cannabis plants - how many plants you used, media, what you tested for, did you test for yeild ??

thanks

V.

 

[cosmiccowboy]

firstly gd, having re-read the thread, i think there are some basic points that we agree on, namely -
1.that occasional low doses of molasses can be beneficial - i use occasionally in mid to late flower at 1 teaspoon per gallon (which is actually the dosage originally recommended by 3 little birds)
2. too much or too concentrated a solution may be detrimental - this applies to anything you add to water in order to help plants
3. unlikely that it makes the buds taste sweeter.

as mj suggested, calling molasses a 'wolf' is a little dramatic, and posting in every thread concerning molasses that it is useless doesnt really reflect the comments you have made here under cross-examination



i have never claimed it can replace plants exudes, but have suggested it may suppliment them to the plant's benefit



see above



you posted your theories about molasses on a discussion forum and i am discussing them - thats the way it works if you dont want to discuss your views then you should start a blog called 'the Gospel according to ganga din' and disable the comment facility.



as i said above, we agree on much of this.
different cannabis hybrids/phenos will have different nutritional requirements so unless you have run the same clone many times then you are unlikely to be giving each plant its exact perfect conditions.
one could also argue that a plant grown for sinsemilla , having been denied its raison d'etra, would be stressed - especially in mid - late flowering (which is when most people's experience has shown them that molasses can be helpful)

.
i have no real idea how others use molasses, given people's tenedency to overdo feeding you may be right, but this would be an issue arising from the incorrect use of molasses rather than it being useless in itself. (or indeed a wolf)


i tend to take influence and learning from as many sources i can, including GC, MM and your good self. also fwiw, i do think that referring to others experience as 'conjecture' is insulting. you are also extrapolating an absolute conclusion on molasses from limited testing are you not ? is that conjecture too?

---

also gd i would be interested in more details of your experiments regarding molasses and cannabis plants - how many plants you used, media, what you tested for, did you test for yeild ??

thanks

V.

yer exactly right. the title of this thread is at best inaccurate..will a dose of molasses kill our plants? thats what the title infers.

 

[DARC MIND]

one could also argue that a plant grown for sinsemilla , having been denied its raison d'etra, would be stressed - especially in mid - late flowering (which is when most people's experience has shown them that molasses can be helpful)

i too honestly believe that female cannabis plants, that are grown for seedless dank buds are indeed swelling up and pumping out resin because of stress. sexual frustration.
I would like to link this great video, kind off topic but non the less a awesome video on plants and ther evolution relation ship with humans and animals.
http://video.pbs.org/video/1283872815/ full video link
the video shines some light on cannabis and how growers sexually stress plants to gain dank herb. Its a great video IMO and i think all should watch it, not just for cannabis.

i have no real idea how others use molasses, given people's tenedency to overdo feeding you may be right, but this would be an issue arising from the incorrect use of molasses rather than it being useless in itself. (or indeed a wolf)

i believe most who have some experience or give good advice in organics actually dont tend to overdo or give advice too, when it comes to feeding. Most if not all experience organic pot growers, I have come in contact with, would give the advice that less is indeed best.
I also dont understand why one would call molasses a wolf? When many do use it and i have not read or heard of many problems.
I my self use molasses recommended by the birds at the rate of 1tsp per gal. I also use molasses on most of my tea's, witch are not just made w/ compost or just applied as a soil drench and i still have yet to see any problems.
i find it funny that ganja gets rubbed the wrong way about the birds and ther very detailed great thread on molasses. I dont believe the birds intended for growers to use molasses in the way ganja believes they did. I my self use what was recommended and im very great full of the birds.

that occasional low doses of molasses can be beneficial - i use occasionally in mid to late flower at 1 teaspoon per gallon (which is actually the dosage originally recommended by 3 little birds)

also gd i would be interested in more details of your experiments regarding molasses and cannabis plants - how many plants you used, media, what you tested for, did you test for yeild ??
V.

i 2 would love to here of more details on your experiments aswell. I have come across many grow threads with the use of molasses and seen wonderful results. I would love to see images or more details on how molasses can become a problem. I believe to much of most things is bad and would love to learn more about the limits of molasses.

 

[dongle69]

hi dongle69 - my grow diary link is in my sig

Ya, I know.
I was talking about the other "growers."

 

[ganja din]

Arrrg! I already answered all your questions and accusations already. I am not repeating myself again because you guys don't like the answer. You are ignoring FACTS, but hey, that's your choice.

I already said why its called a wolf. But why does it matter? Lol. I really don't understand why you guys are hating on the title. And NO ONE has provided info regarding molasses benefits as used for cannabis. I however have offered info...

If you agree with the thread don't use molasses. If you don't agree then use molasses. Your points have been noted, do you really have to try and beat the horse to death? I don't agree and think molasses can be detrimental, see the water info.



Hey v,

You are obviously upset and arguing on that point. If you don't understand my points than I can't help you.

That's great you are interested in the thread. However, what I asked was why are you so intent on using molasses? Can you answer me that? (Sugar/carbs will not increase yield).

firstly gd, having re-read the thread, i think there are some basic points that we agree on, namely - 1.that occasional low doses of molasses can be beneficial - i use occasionally in mid to late flower at 1 teaspoon per gallon (which is actually the dosage originally recommended by 3 little birds) 2. too much or too concentrated a solution may be detrimental - this applies to anything you add to water in order to help plants 3. unlikely that it makes the buds taste sweeter.

1. No. I would not apply molasses to 'rich' media by itself. I do not believe it helps a healthy plant and soil food web to any noticable degree. Along with, or immediatly before or after applying ACT is fine.

2. Yes.

3. No. I will risk the stament it will not affect flavor directly.



If you find my non-support of conjecture stated as fact, and think I'm being rude, than I assume you do not deal with many scientists...

I am not extrapolating anything. Roots 'use' very, very little sugars from water. And, if you read my full post, you would have read that most all (limited) benefits to tree roots are a bit of root growth, NOT above ground. And that's for trees...

Please give up on the notion sugar will increase yield. GC is a douche bag. Why haven't you researched scholarly articles and journals like I suggested? Its obvious you won't get the answer you want here, maybe you can find it there (good luck...)



@ all

IMO this thread seems to be deteiorating with arguments due moslty (IMO) to people feeling upset that I (and MicrobeMan) have essentially disproven the myths about molasses. As such, I will not be replying to anymore posts if they are 'more of the same'.

And to those asking for pics, my non-response is my answer and shows how much I respect your opinion.

 

[maryjohn]

Ganja, you catch more flies with honey.

Think about it. You are the aggie on a hobbyist board. You can't hold everyone to the standard of agreeing with you or being "upset". And verdant is clearly not upset, he is just asking for more.

 

[Grizvok]

Hahahahahaha, you've totally proven the usage of molasses to be detrimental? Please, you're the one making ridiculous assumptions now.

The fact of the matter is that while there is indeed an exchange in beneficial molecules between the root systems (including the plant in general) and the microbial population in the soil, yet you have ABSOLUTELY failed to prove that the levels of carbs transferred back and forth are OPTIMAL.

 

[ganja din]

I disagree. He is obviously (to me) just reaching for things to argue about to try and make a point. I am done arguing on this board, that's why I am often refusing to reply. Didn't these very people also agree that getting off topic and nit-picking non-relevant info detracts from the thread? Like the titles word 'wolf'...

Anyway, like I said, I already answered all these questions which are getting re-asked. Why the repeated Qs you ask? I have no idea, I assume because the previous answers to the same questions weren't appreciated.

 

[dongle69]

The carb and potassium boost from molasses = increased yield.
Try it on an actual cannabis plant.
It works!

 

[ganja din]

@ burnone:

Would you please lock this thread? As the thread starter I would like it locked. This thread is falling apart into the usual BS and I would like to try and retain the thread in 'good' condition.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Hey v,

You are obviously upset and arguing on that point. If you don't understand my points than I can't help you.

not at all ganga - believe me if i get upset you will know about it
- like i said i found it interesting. i do understand you and i have read the stuff you suggested that i could access - i dont think it adds up to what you categorically state about mj. you were also pretty quick to shrug off the link that i provided. you also havent responded to my comments about what constitutes stress.

That's great you are interested in the thread. However, what I asked was why are you so intent on using molasses? Can you answer me that? (Sugar/carbs will not increase yield).

i'm not 'intent' on using molasses, but as someone who doesnt really like to feed plants beyond what i put in the soil, molasses will be the first thing i use in mid flowering if i think my plants could do with a little boost. if the molasses helps make the expensive amendments that are already in there available or squeezes a little more nutrition out of them then great.

now i've answered the question - perhaps you can answer my question about giving us the details of the experiments you have done with mj and molasses

If you find my non-support of conjecture stated as fact, and think I'm being rude, than I assume you do not deal with many scientists...

i have an honours degree in a science subject.

GC is a douche bag.

ganga, if you help even a tiny fraction of the amount of people that Cervantes has helped grow good weed, then you can count yourself a success.

V.

 

[dongle69]

When growing actual cannabis in a high intensity growing environment, photosynthesis can't always keep up, making the added carbs even more important.

 

[DARC MIND]

Its the microbial reaction to the molasses which befits the plant the most, not the molasses itself.

ok bud, please correct me if im getting this wrong
from what im getting of this thread is, molasses will benefit the soil, who will benefit our plants right?
i am also getting and totally understand that you and most if not all people responding believe that only a certain amount of molasses will benefit our plants right? its over doing it, that may be harmful to our soil and plants

And as was mentioned, occasional application of molasses with ACT, etc is fine. But overuse is a different story, which is how probably 99% of people use molasses

not trying to be rude, but what made you believe that 99% of people overuse it?

Most research I have read finds stressed or injured plants repond best to carbs like sugar in the drench water. But, its a small effect and effects roots, not 'above ground'.

i believe that most pot growers, grow stressed plants. Many of our plants swell up and produce resin because of stress. Also many top or train cannabis plants, witch i believe stress the plant to grow a certain way.
Also many grow in confined containers, reducing our plant roots the freedom to roam were they want. Many also recommend to let ther media dry up a bit to increase root growth, witch will in return cause mass root growth and lead to more frequent watering or feeding.
IMHO i think these are stressful conditions especially when many also grow with chems or feed a lot.
So if stressed or injured plants (roots) respond best to carbs like sugar, then woudnt molasses be better for most who grow in these conditions?
And i think that healthy big roots, is the main reason why my buds are good smoke and yield the way they do. IMHO roots effect the above ground yield for sure! maybe even potency as well

And to those asking for pics, my non-response is my answer and shows how much I respect your opinion.

come on man, thats a low blow bud. i like your response but i think you take questions the wrong way.
IMHO you have to give respect to gain respect but then again thats my opinion witch you already stated how much you care. Why be this way, smoke a bowl my man, peace love respect all.

OK, fire away! Opinions? Agreements? Thoughts?

this was in your first post? why ask for opinion when you dont respect them, show us at least a little love..

 

[maryjohn]

Not to pile on ganja but read my sig it applies here. We all do it, but it isn't right. It's easiest to make that mistake when you are the most educated one in the room.

I would say categorically that we ignore traditional practices at our own peril. It's not useless until science proves it.

You may be right, you may be wrong. Don't obssess. The world is gray anyway.

 

[Microbeman]

Ya, I know.
I was talking about the other "growers."

You mean like me? Mr. puny little 6000 watt room.

 

[h.h.]

It's obvious if I coat my soil with sugar it can't absorb water. Wow. I just don't use that much. If your medium starts to look like peanut brittle, simply use more water.
I'm not sure what sugar water pertains to either. Maximum saturation of sugar? I would never put that on my plants.
There is nothing presented to draw a conclusion from without a boost of ego added. As VG pointed out there are still questions. There are many experienced growers that vouch for it and I have had results that I attribute to it by comparing to other grows.

 

[cosmiccowboy]

It's obvious if I coat my soil with sugar it can't absorb water. Wow. I just don't use that much. If your medium starts to look like peanut brittle, simply use more water.
I'm not sure what sugar water pertains to either. Maximum saturation of sugar? I would never put that on my plants.
There is nothing presented to draw a conclusion from without a boost of ego added. As VG pointed out there are still questions. There are many experienced growers that vouch for it and I have had results that I attribute to it by comparing to other grows.

i think you hit the nail on the head about ego.

 

[Chief Rbud]

so if i drink a bottle of grandmas mollasses, and then shit in the tote i grow my plants in, does this constitute the proper use of mollasses?

 

[h.h.]

Male sure you drink blackstrap then make sure there are no leaks in your tote because it might be a little runny.