CARBON you can make (not buy)

[Cakes]

If SWIM were going to buy it, a good kind to get is "Super Activated Carbon"; granulated form. Specifically, the Super Activated Carbon that is made with phosphoric acid is said to be very good for air filtering.

but it is very bad for water filtering because the phosphorus feeds algae into being a massive population.

regular and activated coconut shell


To make the activated forms of carbon is done oftentimes by using minerals or things during cooking and or afterwards, like acids, hydrogen peroxide or steam.

Particulates get lodged on the carbon; most readily in it's cracks and pores; and then the carbon tries to absorb the molecule. it will have varied success at absorbing it and so over time, even if SWIM cleans it, it will clog due to those partial absorbtions.

Carbon can be used to filter water, alcohol or whatever; carbon is even what they often will use to soak up drugs in SWIM's digestive tract if he has a drug overdose. i guess carbon has an affinity for drugs. SWIM himself is said to be a 'carbon based' life-form.





Besides diamonds and filters for air or liquids, carbon can also be used for custom artist pencils, additive-free charcoal for the barbeque, fuel for a forge and to make fireworks/arms.

The idea is to heat the wood in a contained space to a point where the volatile gases are driven from it.

Listed below are a few TEKs about making it from regular wood; it's quality should be equal to regular fresh water aquarium charcoal but less than "Activated Carbon" and "Super Activated Carbon".

The wood that will become carbon is piled up. In this picture, the wood pieces appear charred already because they are left over from previous burns.

Since they were previously heated, they will turn to carbon quickly; a small amount of moistened straw is laid on which keeps the fire burning the right amount of time.

moist dirt goes on the straw and it is lit from the top.

Air holes/cracks around the bottom regulate air flow and fire size. a fast fire might not carbonize but also could get too large and be contagious to the wood.

If the air flow is right and the heat is right, SWIM should see some variously colored smoke coming from the pile; like the bolded part in this next TEK:

~A clean 55 gallon metal drum with the lid cut off roughly

~Enough seasoned wood to fill said drum, chopped into big fist-size pieces (OK, say 5"x5", and the wood just needs to be a couple months seasoned, although the dryer the wood, the faster the process..)

~A bag of sand

~3 or 4 bricks

~A case of beer (optional)

~Time and patience

Start by punching/cutting 5 holes on the bottom of the drum which are each 2" square. Try to keep them towards the center. Put the drum down on the bricks so the holes face the ground; placed so it is off the ground and then fill it with the wood. Start a fire in the drum. When it is going well, put the top back on to reflect back the heat. Since it was cut off roughly, there will be slight gaps to allow the a draft.

Now, turn the whole thing over, placing it back onto the bricks. This is where SWIM might need the case of beer to convince several men to help him lift the sucker. It will be heavy and extremely hot; so hopefully SWIM has a good plan and the men are now too drunk to question him. Once the barrel is turned the fire will now be below the wood and sending heat up through it.

Wait and consume more beer as necessary. *while we are waiting i will say that although i have not tried this tek yet, i have burned in a barrel before and you do not have to put it up on bricks; the ground and a circle around it should be cleared to dirt though. also you should always have a hose and shovel when burning and not do it on a windy day..ok back to the beer and fire...*

The smoke will start out white. This is the water vapor burning off. Next the smoke will go blue/grey which is the alcohols and phenols burning off. Then the smoke appears yellow, which is the tar burning off. Finally the smoke will clear and SWIY will just see waves of heat.

carefully remove the bricks out from underneath. Take the sand and make a pile around the bottom lid, plugging up the bottom draft. Also, cover the top with either a piece of turf or a large piece of metal. Use the sand to seal around the turf/metal so no air can get into the drum<<trying for a closed system here so the fire will go out. If air/oxygen/fire-fuel DOES get into the drum, the charcoal will just burn up. Not what is wanted. Also, try not to let the sand fall down into the drum through the holes.

Allow the drum to cool (2-3 hours). Then turn back over, pry off the top and remove the charcoal. If there is a spark, the charcoal may "catch", but just douse it with some water.

In both the above TEKs the volatile gases escaped upwards but those gases can be ignited if an open flame is close enough. SWIM will see no colorful smoke if the volatile gases are ignited but he can see if the ignition is extinguished<<and that way he knows the gases are done escaping.

invert 2 empty cans into each other.
a 48 oz juice can and a 28 oz canned tomatoes can
(the smaller fits into the larger with a nice tight fit ... open ends face each other).
fill the small can with wood,
fit its open end into the large can's open end and toss the unit into clay chimnea (or fireplace).
The wood "cooks" inside the cans and after several minutes can see a ring of flames (burning gases) where the two cans meet.
When the flames stop (in a half hour or so) the wood is "cooked".
When the fire cools take out the cans, open them and voila...charcoal

this next dude is cooking over the flames/ignited gases:

Ravi Kumar, an innovator in south India, has developed a small stove on which SWIM can cook a meal and produce charcoal while doing so. SWIM collects waste plant material, dries it and puts it into the unit’s circular casing, which is then sealed to prevent oxygen getting in. To start with, a few sticks are burned in the central void. When the surrounding plants heat up they emit gases through small holes into this void. The gases ignite and continue to burn for over an hour, long enough to cook a meal. Finally the plant material, which is now charcoal, is raked out.

i can just imagine SWIM baking his brownies over pot stems and then using the carbon for his next grow. LOL

this next guy is making charcoal for his own fireworks:

cut a 5x8 hole in the bottom-side of a 32 gallon drum. scrap wood will be fed through this hole into a fire.

a 5 gal can will be inside the bigger drum. the 5 gallon can will sit above the fire. it needs a welded grate or firebricks to sit on.

The 5 gal can was first burned in the furnace to remove any paint, asphalt roofing cement, plating or other undesirable contaminants. Of course, the gasket in the lid also is burned up in the process.

A couple of 1/4" holes were drilled in the bottom of the can. the holes face where the fire will be.

and then the five gallon can got loaded with grape vine. The lid was held in place by using about 6 of the securing tabs.

The fire gets built and the 32 gal lid was used as a damper and to help hold the heat in. More wood was loaded into the fire.

After about 45 min the grape started breaking down, in the absence of oxygen, and the steam and flammable gases began to escape from the vent holes in the bottom of the can. This gas jet is directed at the hot coals/flames and really adds to the intensity of the fire with a very noticeable blow-torch sound which lasts about 10 min. Flames are also present around the lid.

After the escaping gases/flames stopped, continued the cooking for another 5 min, just to be sure all the wood was converted to charcoal.

The 5 gal can was removed, cooled down and then opened. Perfect, black, hard grapevine sticks. These crush much easier than mesquite.

3632 g of grapevine yielded 709 g of charcoal in one 5 gal bucket. The volume in the bucket decreased by about 30%.

5 loads yielded enough to convert into one 5 gal can of moderately crushed grapevine charcoal.

There were no traces of ash or uncarbonized wood in any of the 5 batches.

The grape vines were used for their hardness/special properties wanted for certain fireworks. coconut shells are hard and so are the pits/stones of fruit. In air filters, using a high density wood can make carbon with 'greater volume activity' and normally indicates better quality activated carbon<<i think this means it is like a super dense black hole and sucks things in better than lighter materials.

but a softwood would get different sized pores; like sawdust and peat. Using different types of carbon in one filter can give a wider spectrum of coverage.

This next man says hardwood and softwood can be processed at the same time; his pieces were small though and it might count. Doug is making pencils:

Doug makes his charcoal in a steel teapot that was once glass coated. Its volume is about one-half gallon. He loads it, places it on a back-pack type camping stove (just a burner screwed to a propane tank) and cooks the wood in the teapot with the lid on. As a result of destructive distillation, flammable gases are emitted from the spout. As the cooking is in progress he lights a match to the gases coming out of the spout and knows that the charcoal is done when the flame is gone.

With this method he can make charcoal pencils for an entire class of students about 15 to 20 minutes before class. Usually students come early to see the charcoal being made. Later they bring their own wood samples and experiment with different types of wood to find the charcoal of their preference.

WARNING. Keep clear of all combustible objects, fumes, and vapors.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL. This process requires adult supervision. Use common sense.

Doug said to follow these safety guidelines:

(1) This process must be done out of doors on a concrete slab or brick surface.

(2) The only safe materials to roast are wood and naturally grown products.

(3) DO NOT remove the lid of the retort until the stove is turned off and the flame from the spout or vent has extinguished itself.

(4) The retort is HOT. You must give it time to cool before unloading it. (Do NOT try to cool it down with water.)

NOTES:

Doug says it is easier to get good results with a smaller pot than with the half-gallon pot that he uses. In a larger pot, the process may not always run to completion, particularly if the heat is inadequate.

Hardwood and softwood can be processed simultaneously in the same retort.

Doug does not recommend trying to make charcoal or drawing material from anything but wood. Some synthetic materials could be explosive or produce toxic fumes.

Thanks Doug! SWAN found charcoal to work well for drawing on either wet or dry cement.

Doug's method took only 20 minutes or so; his batch was small. the other TEKs quote longer times depending on their batch/wood sizes.

carbon will not work for filtering if it is too old, too dirty or if the air is too warm or too humid. SWIM would have to replace it, clean it or maybe cool or dehumidify the air; or switch to a different filter system (like maybe an ONA system).

re cleaning carbon. i have read two methods:

one for fish tank filters. boil for 15 minutes and then rinse in cold water for five minutes; the super heat makes the carbon release it's attracted contaminants and then the cold makes the charge switch back to being attractive.

two is just a bake in the oven with no cold water rinse. i read it in an alcohol filtering text. but it needs close attention due to the contaminants are released at a temperature that is only 50c different from the temp the gaseous contaminants will ignite at. it might be best if it was superheated by using one of the above outside texts; because an open flame in a gas oven or a hot coil in an electric oven sounds real dangerous/source of ignition.

due to smelly things are being cast off, the cleaning process will smell.

and a last thing to remember about carbon air filters>>for the carbon to work, the air needs to be pulled across it slow enough for particulate bonding to occur. It is no use if the air flow is too fast. If SWIM's strong fan is not working properly, it may be better to increase the amount of carbon rather than increasing the amount of air flowing over the carbon. there are TEKs about how to attach a fan speed controller. SWIM can find it in the OGfaq along with other filter making/ventilation/cultivation texts:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/GrowFAQ Basic Topics.htm

 

[prolificgrower]

great thread........and it gave me an ideal there's a set of train tracks not but 200 yards fro my house.. Great memories use to grow there anywho im assuming all the black charcol looking shit is actually charcol?=D and if it is i could just crush it up and use it for a filter rite? or would it be smart to pressure cook it first since its bin out in the elements? either way great thread carbon adds up over time keep the ideas comming guys its a great way to save money.... another idea is used left over ashes from your fires( assuming no accelerant was used) and add it to your soil for flowering plants because its potash and it super high in K

 

[kaljukajakas]

Making real activated carbon is a pretty serious undertaking. Boiling BBQ charcoal (made by heating hardwoods using methods identical to the ones described by the OP) and washing the charcoal with water or ethanol will not make good quality activated carbon for filtration purposes.

You need superheated steam to chemically activate charcoal. The process takes place at well above 500 deg. F so boiling charcoal will not result in the same thing at all. Activated carbon manufacturers routinely heat their products to 1500 deg. F and more to drive out all the volatiles. The carbon needs to be at least red hot, preferably white hot - this can be replicated to some extent at home by sealing the charcoal (or you can start with wood, coconut shells etc) in a coffee can with a small hole in it's lid and putting it in really hot fire until the can has glowed red hot all over for a good half hour or more. If you start with wood the hole in the lid should be bigger. Then while the fire is still burning you put the red-hot can in some water (carefully!) or bury it in sand to allow no air near the charcoal while it cools.

Alternatively you can soak the charcoal granules in maybe 10% phosphoric acid for a day and then filter and again seal them in a can and leave it in/by a fire until it is bone dry and very hot. If the charcoal is treated with the acid it doesn't need to be heated as hot as without any chemical treatment. It could be dried on a hotplate/small propane burner with a good bunch of aluminum foil wrapped around the can for insulation.

 

[Cakes]

and it gave me an ideal there's a set of train tracks not but 200 yards fro my house.. Great memories use to grow there anywho im assuming all the black charcol looking shit is actually charcol?=D

It absolutely shouldn't be>>because if it was then that means large pieces of burning things are popping out onto the roadside. The black stuff probably is 'cinders' which is burnt rock; so it is like charcoal because it is burnt but I have never heard of anyone using it for air filters. If the pieces are small enough it would work as a crude water filter like sand does.

They use rock as a base for railroad tracks because the train is heavy, same reason they lay in road beds before they pave highways.

another idea is used left over ashes from your fires (assuming no accelerant was used) and add it to your soil for flowering plants because its potash and it super high in K

It is phosphorus (P, not potash) that ashes have in them. and yes they have a LOT. it is a powerful fertilizer but also they are very extreme in their pH<<this can be a great danger and needs experimentation before SWIM exposes his whole crop to it.

Ash in the charcoal (minerals) contains nutrients such as magnesium, manganese, calcium, and iron which dissolve easily in water.

The carbon is likely to have many of the things the wood or whatever had in it.

BBQ charcoal (made by heating hardwoods using methods identical to the ones described by the OP)

just to be clear, commercial BBQ charcoal is rarely made with the methods detailed in the Original Post. it used to be. but not anymore. and that is why many people like to make their own (but some folks just make it cause it's cheap).

Making real activated carbon is a pretty serious undertaking. Boiling BBQ charcoal (made by heating hardwoods using methods identical to the ones described by the OP) and washing the charcoal with water or ethanol will not make good quality activated carbon for filtration purposes.

The boiling of the carbon in the OP was to clean regular carbon and although it mentions using cold water to 're-activate' it, it was not meant to be portrayed as turning the carbon into "Activated Carbon".

The carbon would only still be regular carbon. but cleaner and ready to be used again.

Thanks to kaljukajakas for that clarification. and also for this part:

you can soak the charcoal granules in maybe 10% phosphoric acid for a day and then filter and again seal them in a can and leave it in/by a fire until it is bone dry and very hot.

the 10% part i found quite interesting. This is to "make" activated carbon or to clean it? Because if it is to 'make' it, it sounds like it may be a very doable way of making the very best kind of carbon.

previously to 'make' activated carbon i wonderd about soaking it in h2o2 (maybe after a serious steaming/drying?). The carbon attracts the oxygen so then it gets oxidized when the oxygen comes close so then pock marks are made on the carbon.

with a good bunch of aluminum foil wrapped around the can for insulation.

When working with aluminum and heat, remember it can be melted by a Bic lighter and when it degrades it releases a poisonous gas.

either way great thread carbon adds up over time keep the ideas comming guys its a great way to save money

An idea that sprang up over this carbon thing was the possibility of increasing co2 with it.

carbon does not attract carbon but it does attract oxygen. So if it were to attract enough oxygen out of the air, it seems possible the relative co2 content would be increased in the growroom air.

 

[kaljukajakas]

It is phosphorus (P, not potash) that ashes have in them. and yes they have a LOT. it is a powerful fertilizer but also they are very extreme in their pH<<this can be a great danger and needs experimentation before SWIM exposes his whole crop to it.

Wood ash has both, usually there's a lot more potassium than phosphorous in it though. The potassium is pretty alkaline.

just to be clear, commercial BBQ charcoal is rarely made with the methods detailed in the Original Post. it used to be. but not anymore. and that is why many people like to make their own (but some folks just make it cause it's cheap).

Where I live most of the charcoal sold is made using such simple methods. An episode of Dirty jobs also showed a similar method being used in the US. Don't know what rest of the industry is up to.

the 10% part i found quite interesting. This is to "make" activated carbon or to clean it? Because if it is to 'make' it, it sounds like it may be a very doable way of making the very best kind of carbon.

This is to activate (clean pores and alter the surface chemistry) regular charcoal, thus making it activated carbon.

previously to 'make' activated carbon i wonderd about soaking it in h2o2 (maybe after a serious steaming/drying?). The carbon attracts the oxygen so then it gets oxidized when the oxygen comes close so then pock marks are made on the carbon.

The carbon gets oxidized in hot air as well. It takes a lot of heat to remove all of the contaminants. Chemicals help but a lot of heat is still needed.

When working with aluminum and heat, remember it can be melted by a Bic lighter and when it degrades it releases a poisonous gas.

As a chemist I've used and seen foil being used for insulating hot flasks everywhere. It does melt and become brittle but doesn't fall apart unless you poke at it. Where the coffee tin is cool it won't melt and that's also where insulation is needed the most.

Oh yeah, it's a myth that hot aluminium releases "toxic fumes". There are some particulates, which aren't a real problem, and whatever plastic or wax coatings they put on the foil burn off as well. Of course only an idiot would heat a can full of boiling phosphoric acid in a place without a lot of ventilation so the point becomes moot anyway.

An idea that sprang up over this carbon thing was the possibility of increasing co2 with it.

carbon does not attract carbon but it does attract oxygen. So if it were to attract enough oxygen out of the air, it seems possible the relative co2 content would be increased in the growroom air.

Yes, if you remove all of the oxygen in the air the CO2 content will rise by 25% or so. It should be pointed out that the filter would have to remove oxygen continuously, and that there are huge amounts of it in air.

 

[Cakes]

there is more than 200,000 PPM of oxygen in the atmosphere. but we only want to raise the ambient co2 from 300 PPM to 1500 PPM.

And aluminum releasing toxic fumes is not a myth. yes i have taken a fat hit of it and still sit here today but fact is that the uS was going to make the BradlyFightingMachine from aluminum because it was light but then they discovered the fume issue.

re who would be stupid enough to use it or do whatever>>dude, this IS a basic TEK.

Wood ash has both, usually there's a lot more potassium than phosphorous in it though.

no. Potassium can come from unburnt wood though.

Where I live most of the charcoal sold is made using such simple methods. An episode of Dirty jobs also showed a similar method being used in the US. Don't know what rest of the industry is up to.

no. Even if they showed one on Dirty Jobs it does not mean it is the way most is made. At this time most commercial charcoal is not made with the simple methods shown. and should not be treated as such re filtering purposes. The only stuff that you can be assured is made with the basic method is the bags marketed as 'natural' charcoal.

the 10% part i found quite interesting. This is to "make" activated carbon or to clean it? ... This is to activate (clean pores and alter the surface chemistry) regular charcoal, thus making it activated carbon.

in the context of my question, the cleaning would necessarily be happening after it was used.

i wondered about soaking it in h2o2 (maybe after a serious steaming/drying?).
...
Chemicals help but a lot of heat is still needed.

Heat is needed to make carbon but not to make Activated Carbon. Carbon can be made Activated by various methods and not all involve heat.

 

[kaljukajakas]

And aluminum releasing toxic fumes is not a myth. yes i have taken a fat hit of it and still sit here today but fact is that the uS was going to make the BradlyFightingMachine from aluminum because it was light but then they discovered the fume issue.

Sorry, it's still a myth. It's physically and chemically impossible for aluminium - a metal - to emit toxic fumes. I now a lot of stoners claim it. Just like it's physically and chemically impossible to burn water - but people still claim they can! That's why I called it a myth: a lot of people believe it.

no. Potassium can come from unburnt wood though.

Don't believe me? Here are the first few google hits on "wood ash":

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/woodash.html
"Wood ash does have fertilizer value, the amount varying somewhat with the species of wood being used. Generally, wood ash contains less than 10 percent potash, 1 percent phosphate and trace amounts of micro-nutrients such as iron, manganese, boron, copper and zinc. Trace amounts of heavy metals such as lead, cadmium, nickel and chromium also may be present. Wood ash does not contain nitrogen.

The largest component of wood ash (about 25 percent) is calcium carbonate, a common liming material that increases soil alkalinity."

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_ashlye.html
"Lye made from wood ash is potassium hydroxide, not sodium hydroxide -- there's 10 times as much potassium as sodium in wood ash."

no. Even
if they showed one on Dirty Jobs it does not mean it is the way most is made. At this time most commercial charcoal is not made with the simple methods shown. and should not be treated as such re filtering purposes. The only stuff that you can be assured is made with the basic method is the bags marketed as 'natural' charcoal.

I agree that commercial carbon is made in a bit more complicated fashion. Still, BBQ charcoal does not need any such fancy methods. I know for a fact that where I live all of the BBQ charcoal is made by very simple means. It would be stupid to do anything else as you just have to heat the damn wood without too much oxygen getting to it and anything more complicated than a kiln would be overkill.

Heat is needed to make carbon but not to make Activated Carbon. Carbon can be made Activated by various methods and not all involve heat.

100% of the methods used for cleaning carbon use at least some heat. It's physically impossible to reach absolute zero, so everything we do involves some heat. Certainly all commercial methods to activate charbon use a lot of heat.

 

[Cakes]

It's physically impossible to reach absolute zero, so everything we do involves some heat.

this is a very weird thing to say. of course some chemical applications do not involve heat.

It's physically and chemically impossible for a metal to emit toxic fumes

this is also a very weird thing to say. obviously you do not know shit.

re whether purdue knows shit about wood ash>>i have put ash in my vial and tested it myself<there is no way someone could do this and still publish text to the effect that it has only one percent P. I am half believing that they did not use pure ash for their tests.

 

[kaljukajakas]

"It's physically impossible to reach absolute zero, so everything we do involves some heat."

this is a very weird thing to say. of course some chemical applications do not involve heat.

"It is impossible to reach absolute zero" is one wording of the 3rd law of thermodynamics. A really weird thing to say indeed...

I'm curious though: can you name one way to make real activated carbon out of regular charcoal at room temperature?

"It's physically and chemically impossible for a metal to emit toxic fumes"

this is also a very weird thing to say. obviously you do not know shit.

You misquoted me, I said aluminium can't emit toxic fumes, not metals in general. Aluminium can't. Unless it's pretty close to it's boiling temperature (4566 deg. F) anyway.

whether purdue knows shit about wood ash>>i have put ash in my vial and tested it myself<there is no way someone could do this and still publish text to the effect that it has only one percent P. I am half believing that they did not use pure ash for their tests.

Something's wrong with your tests.

There's a lot of P in bone ash, not wood ash.

Do you know why potash is called potash? Because it was discovered in ash! They put the ash in a pot, added water, filtered the insoluble bits out and got potash!

 

[Cakes]

i did not misquote you. i wish you would leave.