Cannabis, the effect from increasing photo-period by only 15 or 30 min.

[Miraculous Meds]

It's simply a difference found between two exact same gentoypes (clones), but not due to phenotypic plasticity.

For example, two clones, one flowering under 11 hour photoperiod and one under 13 hour photoperiod, while different in cannabinoid profile, can have the same phenotype expression. The difference is one got more DLI so it was able to produce more cannabindois than the other (which take a lot of energy to produce, energy from photons).

Another example could be better yield from the clone under 13 hours, again, just because the plant was able to produce more dry matter (from greater DLI) doesn't mean it's a phenotype difference (vs. the clone under 11 hours).

I'm not claiming the environment doesn't affect phenotype, it sure does, but I am claiming that not every difference between two clones is related to phenotype.

If there is a difference between two exact clones, flowered under different photoperiods. and ur saying not every difference is related to phenotype, please share what else is causing the differences then?

what about my example of getting purple color on a clone that I ran 12/12 for a long time, but now it expresses purple under 11/13. If that is not a change in expression of phenotype what is it?

 

[Beta Test Team]

I already shared what can cause a difference without affecting phenotype, I don't have a term to give you for that processes.

Please check out at least the first study I posted on this page for very up-to-date work in this area. At least read the abstract and discussion sections.

The purple is indeed likely a phentoype expression due to changing something in the environment.

My point is not every single difference between two clones is caused by a phenotype expression change.

 

[Riddleme]

I think it is more accurate to say the changes are genetic rather than phenotype

IOW, various different light cycles bring out various different genetic responses

and though it is not Cannabis, this research is being done ,,,,,,,,

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...zrjWPlCWgj-WXB-tRC8ktCg&bvm=bv.79189006,d.cGE

 

[mtntrogger]

NERDS !!!!





Sorry ... I had to

 

[Riddleme]

You know, I never really looked for any scientific studies on this (till now) because I had respect for DJ Short based on his contributions and I tried it and "observed" a distinct difference. Now having seen over several grows, growing plants I am very familiar with I am convinced though you say I'm a denier? So I went and looked and low and behold there are all kinds of studies that imply that different genetic expressions occur under different light cycles, (hell one of em has lots of pics)

anyway I will keep doing what I'm doing because it works and here are several links that back it up

http://www.life.umd.edu/CBMG/faculty/liu/circadian clock.pdf

http://www.bgu.ac.il/desert_ecology/Novoplansky/Plasticity course 2005-6/Schlichting and Smith.pdf

http://cas.unt.edu/~rmittler/Merquiol.pdf

http://ac.els-cdn.com/S153458070200...t=1415820699_cdfeef882852a349406578e7fb65266a

http://genesdev.cshlp.org/content/14/3/257.full

http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1001201

http://www.yale.edu/denglab/paper/calvincycle04.pdf

http://www.plantcell.org/content/18/4/792.full

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/abot/2014/208747/

http://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/content/58/12/3099.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC145435/

 

[Beta Test Team]

It's great how you like to move the goal posts, Riddleme. Do you like football (aka soccer)?

Keep doing what you're doing if it makes you happy, but be sure I'll always call a spade a spade.

Be well.

 

[Riddleme]

It's great how you like to move the goal posts, Riddleme. Do you like football (aka soccer)?

Keep doing what you're doing if it makes you happy, but be sure I'll always call a spade a spade.

Be well.

not moving anything and I love football (aka Football) Go Chiefs

 

[Bubbleblower]

Here's a worthwhile study to check out:

Climate change, adaptation, and phenotypic plasticity: the problem and the evidence

You never read the studies you cite do you, that one supports our view, not yours.
Of course “our understanding of genetic and plastic responses to climate change is still in its infancy” but it is “safe to conclude that plasticity often makes a strong contribution to phenotypic trends associated with contemporary climate change.”

This video explains short and simple how pheno expression works and why DJ was right:

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/epigenetics/intro/

 

[Beta Test Team]

Yes I do, and no he was not in terms of this thread (again, you seem to ignore the fact he was writing about breeding).

Again you're over you're head and not understanding before typing - I know OO feels my pain when dealing with you, as well.

Not every difference between two plants of the same genotype is phenotypic.

Please go away now. Either that or be honest and stop cherry picking, because you know full well if you read (and understood) that paper there are aspects that do not support your claims. And no, I will not go over the paper for you, I'm not going to help you as you clearly are not here for that...

And nice try to suggest I am alone in my position. Another swing and miss, batter up!

Oh yea, I think I know who a third fake account of yours is, too. So it's you, DooDahMan, and at least this other member I suspect is you, too. So many accounts, how do you keep it all straight?

 

[mr. gt]

haha beta's still going on about how Dj Short's work is horse puckey.


Has he posted any pics of his work yet?


SHOW US SOME BETA TESTS!



I personally won't change my reasoning without seeing physical evidence that states the contrary. Instead of arguing and not debating, why not do everything in your power to prove you are correct, instead of trying to prove others are wrong. Just like the article I quoted about human behavioral psychology on why people go out of there way to discredit others.

~mr. gt

 

[Bubbleblower]

DJ was talking about phenotypic expression, don't take anybodies word for it (!!), judge for yourself, if you wish you can stop at the title:

Phenotypic expression

The malleability of phenotypic expression among the Sativa/Indica crosses must also be noted. The variability of phenotypic expression among the f2 generation of a truly polar (pure Sativa/pure Indica) P1 cross is quite phenomenal. The second generation f2 crosses will exhibit the full spectrum of possibilities between the original parents extreme Indica, extreme Sativa, and everything in between.

However, regardless of any particular phenotype selected from among this given f2 cross, future generations may drift radically. Depending on the presence (or lack) of a number of environmental triggers, an f2 Indica phenotype may be coaxed more toward Sativa traits, or an f2 Sativa phenotype may be coaxed more toward Indica expression. The key is environmental conditions.

After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.

Not every difference between two plants of the same genotype is phenotypic.

​

Nope, and nobody said so either.​

You love to point out the obvious and imply it proofs your point somehow or we disagreed, missed it, are too stupid to understand or whatever suits you best. It is very manipulative and still derailing this thread that should have been so interesting.​

​

Has he posted any pics of his work yet?

Excellent question.

​

A Skunkdog clone under Summer sun takes 90 days to finish and will yield up to a lb. The same clone under Winter sun will finish in less than 60 days and yield two ozs.

​

I wonder if anything else slowed her down during the summer.​

My feeling is cannabis is constantly calculating what to do. In the summer it's math get's disturbed below 24N, because the sun passes twice, so lighthours go up and down twice and the plants need to adjust 3 times as often as plants further north or in winter.​

 

[stihgnobevoli]

^^^ i think you mean shorter light means it finishes faster. unless summer sun is shorter where he is. i don't know which post you quoted.

 

[Beta Test Team]

haha beta's still going on about how Dj Short's work is horse puckey.


Has he posted any pics of his work yet?


SHOW US SOME BETA TESTS!



I personally won't change my reasoning without seeing physical evidence that states the contrary. Instead of arguing and not debating, why not do everything in your power to prove you are correct, instead of trying to prove others are wrong. Just like the article I quoted about human behavioral psychology on why people go out of there way to discredit others.

~mr. gt

You want a picture showing something that ISN'T happening? How would you propose such a feat?! (Never mind I really don't care what you think).

Really, your post just typifies the typical post in this thread: silly, ignorant, and just plan a waste of time.

A picture does not tell you nearly what I have told you, a picture is not worth a thousand words in science. (Or do you demand all published studies also include pictures?)

I'm sure you're in good company hanging out with Bubbleblower (aka DooDahMan, aka ..., aka ...)

 

[Beta Test Team]

^^^ i think you mean shorter light means it finishes faster. unless summer sun is shorter where he is. i don't know which post you quoted.

He's wrong, again. It's about DLI (photons).

If the photoperiod was 12 hours but DLI was that of a 10 or 11 hour day, then you would see (pretty much) the same response.

 

[StrongBeef]

Stoner Science for sure

 

[Beta Test Team]

Yea, indeed. Stoners don't need no darn learnin' from them lab coat types, stoners just know it, bra!

 

[Riddleme]

You want me to a picture showing something that ISN'T happening? How would you propose such a feat?! (Never mind I really don't care what you think).

Really, your post just typifies the typical post in this thread: silly, ignorant, and just plan a waste of time.

Also, I'm a bit offended you assume I'm a man. This also shows how young you are, or just ignorant.

A picture does not tell you nearly what I have told you, a picture is not worth a thousand words in science, lol. (Or do you demand all published studies also include pictures?)

I'm sure you're in good company hanging out with Bubbleblower (aka DooDahMan, aka ..., aka ...)

Just so you know, I am a real person, not a clone log in, my stuff is all over the web in several forums including my own

 

[Beta Test Team]

Yes, I know, I removed that already - mea culpa. I didn't mean to type your name there, I meant to type someone else name, which I have held back on until I have proof.

 

[StrongBeef]

So why do my 100% indica plants trigger the same exact day as my 100% Sativa's? Talking outdoor plants here...... I hate stoner science.

 

[Beta Test Team]

Most likely due to flowering response from phytochromes, as the nights are longer it triggers Cannabis to flower. And then there's also a possible effect from cryptochromes, as well, which in some species effects time to flowering induction (from veg) - this may, or may not, be the case with Cannabis.

Cannabis is a facultative long-night flowering plant, which is why we also find so-called 'auto-flowering' geotypes in the genus, as well. So it's not all that surprising your two genotypes can begin flowering at the same time.