Cannabis grafting

[Tonygreen]

Im waiting to see an example where you took a plant and grafted onto big bud roots or money maker and yield performing as you claim. Not some googled papers anyone can look up....

Show me the paper to back up your claim of big bud roots making scions from other strains yield more, better yet show me living proof where you have done it yourself? A friend? Or is it just an unproven idea you got in your head that no one else on the planet ever thought of... Don't show me watermelons increasing yield, Show me evidence to back up the claim you made in your first post in this thread before you went on a tangent to try to prove you know your shit.

Where the fuck is your evidence big bud roots make scions perfom and yield better? Don't google some fucking watermelon shit, back up your claim with proof...

Have you done it or seen it done? If no, Why not? Where is the proof? Surely you have done it to back up your claims while your spewing your "education" to the masses?

How about a side by side to show us you know your shit instead of googling watermelon grafting results....

 

[Tonygreen]

I have not experimented with this myself much, When this method is done correctly you can grow any strain as if it was big bud or money maker without having to cross it.[/url]

----------

Bullshit claims with no evidence... You have not done it yourself and you have not even read about anyone doing it... You think in your head it is possible but you aint puttin up no proof, no matter how much shit you cite...

People spewing off like they know everything with no experience in it at all remind me of the dudes at other sites still saying you cant get more than 4 zips off a plant and passing out grow advice...

Show me the proof it works as you described with big bud roots, if you are able to prove real evidence you have just revolutionized cannabis because why would anyone do it any other way? Since you think you are the first guy to come up with this hypothesis...

 

[Tonygreen]

Your other experiments have nothing to do with your argument here.
I'm not trying to teach you shit or even having a discussion on shit regarding science until you learn the difference between a hypothesis and facts and theories. Any such conversations would be and are a waste of time.


When this method is done correctly you can grow any strain as if it was big bud or money maker without having to cross it

If you didn't come in here stating a hypothesis you have not even tested as fact and you wouldn't look like a douche . Then you want to expound about your knowledge of scientific method? Any 8 year old can google some shit homie.

You have not cited any research to back up your hypothesis you disguised as fact.
You have not done any research yourself to test your hypothesis.
You speak of your hypothesis as if it were fact despite not having proven it.
Since you have no research to prove your point you post about watermelons.

Show me a big bud root stock with a scion from a different strain grafted on top and producing bigger yields or stop stating it like fact and you know your shit because until you do you're are full of shit.

Post up the side by side you are going to do to prove your point or stop passing off your bullshit?

What fucking debate? You have nothing but a hypothesis you have not tested you are passing off as fact.

 

[Tonygreen]

So you are copying and pasting posts from a year ago,,, you are still stating a hypothesis as fact. That quote came from your first post in this thread. You went back and looked up a post from elsewhere from a year ago to copy and paste it here instead of typing the one sentence, gotcha.

I'm not the one claiming to be all knowing but I know your hypothesis is not tested by YOU.
And until it is and you stop posting shit as fact that you have not even tested please stop stating it as fact...

Surely an astute science kid like you knows enough that a hypothesis you propose has to be backed up by affirming research before you should state it as fact or you have zero credibility in the science world.

Watermelon experiments someone else did don't count.

Whenever that side by side pops up where you attempt to prove your hypothesis with tangible work instead of google, let me know.

 

[Tonygreen]

Hell your screen name at the other spot is "Genetic Theories" and you posted it a less than 2 months ago not a year.

There is no room for exaggeration or unproven claims being passed off as fact in science.

 

[Tonygreen]

Not only that you are over there admitting you are a noob on the subject....

http://www.homeofthedank.com/forum/showthread.php?687-Grafting-to-boost-nutrients-200/page2

yeah I am trying to work out a plan before hand to have a general ideas of success and then run everything side by side with a control and see what works best. Might test with some non cannabis plants first just to get a feel. I am really liking Mark Clementz grafting method. There is also some grafting kits being sold on the market as well.

I think is going to take alot of trial and errors before we get it perfected

Posted 1-22

I defiently want to start doing some trial and errors...probally will start with non cannabis plants until I get the technic down.

here is a cool grafting documentry i am watching now

Also the part you quote from me...is actually a year old, that is part of a copy and pasted discussion I originally wrote a year ago at another location...so your actually using year old stuff.

3 days ago you were going to try to get your technique down now you are a master.... here to teach us all...

Here is some dudes sayin they tried it and it dont work lol... 5 years ago... I can find more if you want,,, google is your friend...

https://www.growery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/496538/page/92

 

[Tonygreen]

Welcome to the big leagues kid.

 

[Tonygreen]

I already did.

It's been three days, you got that technic down yet?lol

 

[Tonygreen]

Get that technic down before you come here to teach us all kid. Done any practising in the last 3 days?

 

[ozza]

Actually...that is not about the change being done thru genes..

"The change is stable and uniform and appears to be firmly fixed, as shown by the new plants resulting from numerous generations of cuttings for cuttings."

"These changes, as a result of these graft unions, are permanent over many generations of the new cultivar and these changes are uniform among the new plants."


When you graft..you are changing the scion's environment...changing the amount of nutes they get....changing their yield...etc etc I cover this process in my terpenes breeding thread where I show environment change causes change in terpene profile do to the change in metal oxides.

And believe it or not...that patent you posted link to...tells you the same thing I already told you yet you continue to talk trash about it..even though you do not even realize or you failed to read what you post......the rootstock changes the growth of the scion...thats what I done told you and exactly what that link YOU POSTED says.




------------------------

"A method to permanently alter plant growth characteristics in poinsettia which comprises the steps of providing a plant having free branching characteristics to be used as rootstock; providing a scion plant which has certain desirable characteristics and to which the free branching plant characteristics are to be imparted; and making a graft union between the cellular tissue of the rootstock plant and scion plant whereby the characteristics of any adventitious vegetative shoot arising from the scion or stock are altered and include the free branching characteristic."

------------------

You also failed to see this part

"A plant resulting from clonal propagation of the vegetative shoot"

A plant resulting from a...CLONE. Not seed...CLONE. So the guy is using clones only..not new plants from seed. Now what do we know about Clones? They grow just like the mother plant right??

To give a example of whats going on...think of the rootstock as steroids and when a scion is grafted onto it...the scion has been injected with steroids. The scion now has steroids going into it which has causes changes not due to genes but thru a drug basically. We know alot of chemicals in a plant is produced in the roots. So when you take a cutting..and make a clone..that clone is now going to need to create enough roots to substaine it..and thus will recreate the rootstock's root system in order to survive...basically it has adapted to it's environment.

Now think of this...if a father is a steroid user...has a child...will the child have the father's increase muscle mass or the father's regular muscle mass? Is steroid induced muscle mass genetic or drug induced?

This is not what happened in that patent at all. It says it changes the growth paatterns of the scion permanently. The cuttings from this plant will then grow the same/ with the changes. It has nothing to do with environment. Most of these plants are grown hydroponically. Changing the chemicals or Hormones within a plant is not changing it's environment. It is an untruth and your trying to use false information to back up claims. The cultivar has been genetically changed.

I've not said that grafting bigger roots to a ganga plant is a bad idea. In theory it is a good one. Whether it is viable or makes any differences, would only be able to be seen through experiment. This is what everyone is trying to tell you.

I would like to see someone graft Auto flowering stock to Non Auto flower stock and experiment this way. I can imagine many different outcomes, but theorizing about this is just that. My imagination, until I actually do it, I would have to rely on my thoughts.

Watermelons aren't cannabis. Stop regurgitating many things people have read. It seems like you've just come across grafting and it interests you. Fair enough. Instead of going on like you know it all, which you have already said this is speculation, because you haven't tried it. Why not ask questions? Why not try it yourself?

What do you want to be taught? What would you like to know?

You still haven't provided any links to these so called chimera's of cross species grafting. I would like to read it if you truly have one?

I guess you will just try to look smart with a few google links to others work with grafting which you have not properly understood yourself.

 

[ozza]

How about you show me where someone grafted big bud roots onto another plant and it NOT increase yield If your the one saying I am wrong..then how about you show me something that says big bud roots will not increase a scion's yield.

It is your thread buddy and your theory, you have to show the proof if you want this to go anywhere as many growers have tried it and it has shown not much better results for the effort. Maybe you should have a look at just how big some strains get when grow outdoors. Hydroponically I don't think grafting would be viable, maybe outdoors but again you would need to experiment. I think it would be difficult to compete with some of the already bred cultivars that grow upwards of 20 feet already.

 

[Tonygreen]

Have you practiced your grafting since you posted 3 days ago you were gong to try to get the technic down? If so what did you learn to make you the expert?

 

[ozza]

lol not my thread....here i'll help you...to know who started a thread...you go to page one...and ummm..look who has the first post... ::shakes head::

" as many growers have tried it and it has shown not much better results"

Yeahhh..show where someone has tried this and not got better results... Again you did not read the thread that your buddy posted..that thread stated it would work as long as auto flower is not used..THATS ALL that thread stated..which again the thread has zero science sources or references or anything of that nature...go ahead and show where someone tried this method and it not work...go ahead..i'll wait


What thread are you talking about?

Oh and those 20 foot strains...guess what....they get 20 feet because they are grown in those 100-500 gallon containers...and extra growing technics and nutrients are used... ::shakes head::

How about you find me a strain that has more yield than the following...big bud, money maker, incredible bulk.....go ahead and find strains that genetically yield higher...
Go ahead and find me a strain that grows 20 feet "naturally"....

Mullumbimby Madness grows 20 foot easy. I have seen many other Australian Strains that beat Big Bud. The Motherlode Garden thread will show you plenty of strains bigger then Big Bud. Go look at Kangativas Mullum.

 

[Tonygreen]

you outta go smoke some big bud and start testing some of your hypothesis like a scientist would.

Dude you know shit about grafting in practise, you posted 3 days ago saying you were going to try to learn,,, let us know when you got that side by side thread up, until then stop making an ass out of yourself.

Fuck are you gonna teach people when three days ago you were saying you are going to try to learn grafting technique...

 

[ozza]

OK I'll leave you to it, come back and show us your results.

 

[ozza]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=175243

72 pages....you really think i am going to sit here and go thru 72 pages?

I glanced thru it and did not see a single 20 foot plant...20 foot would mean it would have to be over 3 times of a average 6 foot tall person's height...most I seen there was 15 foot.

The plants in that thread just look like basic sativa hemp...again did not see anything at 20 foot....did not see anything that shows them yielding more than any other sativa....Hemp gets 15 foot..sativa landraces get 15 foot but you do not see people getting big buds from those sativa landraces when they grow them indoors...and when they grown side by side with big bud..big bud yields more..that is a reason people are known to cross those landrace sativas with big bud...to boost yield.

Mullumbimby Madness
View Image


One..this strain's seeds is not widely available...thus this strain would not be suitable for use since not everyone can get it.

Now big bud...which is available all over the world and the most used strain in crosses to increase yield...does not need to be grown outside to get big...
View Image

Over 70 crossed strains used big bud..for the sole purpose of increasing yield...
View Image
View Image

the photo is photoshop.

 

[ozza]

I have provided more than enough experiments with trial and errors...while you and your buddy has never been able to do that even once...think about it...

::drops mic::

Show anyone one experiment or trial, that you provided not just googled?

I also have already provided you with a way to increase yield, your just too stupid to see it. Believe people or not your choice. People would have grafted big bud roots too everything if it made that much difference. Now I said I have seen Tomatoes grafted together with two root stocks. Maybe I have seen other things with two roots systems.

These things I saw were interesting, two root stocks for one plant. Same pheno's, same strain. one in 50 used to work out. So it was not very effective for time. Doubled yield almost, but considerable more time setting up. Works better with tomatoes. This was hydro and I thought it a waste of time. It worked very good for Outdoor plants. Graft must be good to handle elements though.

 

[_tessarecting]

Grapht big bud to a seqoia sapling and live in it for the rest of your life like a salamander baby

 

[ozza]

looks about 20 ft

 

[BobbyIronsights]

There seems to be alot of ire in this thread. I would like there to be greater agreement, and perhaps some basic politeness? Just a thought.

I've been doing alot of reading, and I have reached certain conclusions and I hope at least some of you might share them.

1. Grafting cannabis scions, onto cannabis hosts IS desirable for at least some growers.

2.There's not alot of literature or experience specific to grafting cannabis at this time. However, it has been shown to be possible.

3. Cannabis is a fast growing, flowering annual. Fast growing flowering annuals are not the easiest plants to graft, but horticulturalists have had success in grafting fast growing, flowering, fruiting annuals, like the tomato, en masse, and commercially, and have found tangible benefits to doing so.

In Conclusion then. I believe that more experimentation and practical experience is needed, but that successful grafting of cannabis will PROBABLY occur, and that it will probably be less difficult and esoteric than it seems to be at this early stage.

Gentleman, we grope in the dark now, but someone, sooner or later will discover the path forward. Perhaps even someone engaging in this conversation now.

I am trying to germinate 46 bag seeds at this time; along with ten northern lights. If I have enough stock, I intend to try my hand at grafting and see what comes of it with plants that would otherwise be culled. Also, I'd like to thank those that have been participating in this thread, while this conversation might have gotten heated at times, I did read things that made me think.

Robert