removed the clip today and the graft site has healed! i am attempting to harden off the scion now. will post back when i see some new growth.
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Cannabis grafting
- Thread starter BobbyIronsights
- Start date
hardening off finished! new growth confirmed! a complete success!
pretty easy overall. looking forward to doin a lot more experimenting.
thanks again to the thread contributors for the guidance and inspiration :friends:
pretty easy overall. looking forward to doin a lot more experimenting.
thanks again to the thread contributors for the guidance and inspiration :friends:
Drop That Sound
Well-known member
I have some questions about grafting;
1. Could you keep one large host plant in constant flower, and perpetually add new branches from a mother plant?
In other words, 1 plant (yes a 10 ft wide plant if that's size space you have) that takes up your whole room, and one additional mother to keep supplying new branches.
Perpetually adding new and also harvesting the same amount of grafted branches to the canopy, on a weekly basis.
Would I have to isolate the grafts somehow with another light schedule and environment?
Say if I did an 1/8th of the room, I could partition just that area off by bagging\boxing it off temporarily. The main big branch that just got harvested in that part of the room would be grafted with all new branches and a seal around it to keep the lights from going back into the whole room.
Work my way around the room clockwise, always harvesting and replacing with grafts.
If the root zone starts getting funky, just dip some big branches down and start forming new ones by air layering them in a different res. Same with grafting the canopy, keep creating new roots too.
1. Could you keep one large host plant in constant flower, and perpetually add new branches from a mother plant?
In other words, 1 plant (yes a 10 ft wide plant if that's size space you have) that takes up your whole room, and one additional mother to keep supplying new branches.
Perpetually adding new and also harvesting the same amount of grafted branches to the canopy, on a weekly basis.
Would I have to isolate the grafts somehow with another light schedule and environment?
Say if I did an 1/8th of the room, I could partition just that area off by bagging\boxing it off temporarily. The main big branch that just got harvested in that part of the room would be grafted with all new branches and a seal around it to keep the lights from going back into the whole room.
Work my way around the room clockwise, always harvesting and replacing with grafts.
If the root zone starts getting funky, just dip some big branches down and start forming new ones by air layering them in a different res. Same with grafting the canopy, keep creating new roots too.
Under a flowering photoperiod, you might have a tough time getting enough growth on the scion to make the process worthwhile. Flowering branches also have a reputation of being tough to graft with... so figure out how to keep half of the plant in veg and you're good to go.
A light dep curtain with a rotating planter might be enough, though?
Or just do the experiment! Grafting is surprisingly easy, and you may be able to get it to work just the way you'd like.
Darpa
Member
This was already discussed in my previous post. Rootstock selection could have an effect on the flower and the trichome production of the scion through the transmission of mRNA from the root stock....
Transmission of mRNA from herbaceous transgenic donor plants to recipient plants through a graft union via the phloem have also been documented. Reference: Haroldsen VM , Szczerba MW , Aktas H , Lopez-Baltazar J , Odias MJ , Chi-Ham CL et al. Mobility of transgenic nucleic acids and proteins within grafted rootstocks for agricultural improvement. Front Plant Sci 2012; 3: 39. [PMC free article] [PubMed]
Anybody willing to do a test grow? I would be willing to document such experiment but I'm presently working in stabilizing a GG4xbikerkush cross at the moment... I would have to elaborate an experimental protocol and select a specific rootstock to use. If I use my pure african lanrace, I could probably document a possible delay in the flowering, but I would prefer to test a cold, fast flowering strain for such experiment..
any suggestion?
Transmission of mRNA from herbaceous transgenic donor plants to recipient plants through a graft union via the phloem have also been documented. Reference: Haroldsen VM , Szczerba MW , Aktas H , Lopez-Baltazar J , Odias MJ , Chi-Ham CL et al. Mobility of transgenic nucleic acids and proteins within grafted rootstocks for agricultural improvement. Front Plant Sci 2012; 3: 39. [PMC free article] [PubMed]
Anybody willing to do a test grow? I would be willing to document such experiment but I'm presently working in stabilizing a GG4xbikerkush cross at the moment... I would have to elaborate an experimental protocol and select a specific rootstock to use. If I use my pure african lanrace, I could probably document a possible delay in the flowering, but I would prefer to test a cold, fast flowering strain for such experiment..
any suggestion?
To anyone who has tried and failed at grafting: some scion stock is very reluctant to graft.
A very desirable scion took 8 attempts for a single good graft. This was over three different rootstock targets, that have been giving 80-90% success overall.
The second copy took 7 attempts.
Fearing my technique (or sanity) was suffering, I made a batch of 6 grafts of another scion across the three rootstocks. 100% took. Whew!
Sometimes it's just all about genetics, genetics, and genetics!
A very desirable scion took 8 attempts for a single good graft. This was over three different rootstock targets, that have been giving 80-90% success overall.
The second copy took 7 attempts.
Fearing my technique (or sanity) was suffering, I made a batch of 6 grafts of another scion across the three rootstocks. 100% took. Whew!
Sometimes it's just all about genetics, genetics, and genetics!
Breadwizard
Active member
Hey Everyone, just found this thread and I'm stoked to find other people grafting cannabis! I'm using this technique to keep plant number down as I build a genetic library for some selective pollen chucking.
So far I have a mother plant and a father plant, each has 3-5 varieties grafted onto them (rather, some are phenotypes from the same variety). I've been keeping the mother/father plants bonsai style in gallon size pots, cutting them back once they get too large for their space.
Technique that seems to work for me is somewhere between a veneer and a chip graft, where the scion is about the same size as Darpa has on post #94 in this thread, but grafted in the same location as a veneer graft would be. I wrap the graft union tightly with parafilm (I graft citrus trees, so I have it handy) then wrap with a big bubble of plastic wrap to keep it hydrated, removing the plastic wrap after 2 weeks or so.
So far I have a mother plant and a father plant, each has 3-5 varieties grafted onto them (rather, some are phenotypes from the same variety). I've been keeping the mother/father plants bonsai style in gallon size pots, cutting them back once they get too large for their space.
Technique that seems to work for me is somewhere between a veneer and a chip graft, where the scion is about the same size as Darpa has on post #94 in this thread, but grafted in the same location as a veneer graft would be. I wrap the graft union tightly with parafilm (I graft citrus trees, so I have it handy) then wrap with a big bubble of plastic wrap to keep it hydrated, removing the plastic wrap after 2 weeks or so.
I bought a little gizmo used to cut tomato plants for grafting....
Im going to dink around with it.....first experiment will actually be to simply cut the plant and try to reattach it.... if you cant do that......there is little point in doing anything more....
More upon success....
Im going to dink around with it.....first experiment will actually be to simply cut the plant and try to reattach it.... if you cant do that......there is little point in doing anything more....
More upon success....
Hookahhead
Active member
Wow guys, great work! I have a decent bit of experience grafting cacti and fruit trees, but I had always heard that grafting cannabis doesn't work or isn't worth the effort. This thread dispelled both of those myths for me! It also got me thinking about how this would be useful in my garden...
I want to start trying to mainline a few plants for my first time. However due to my growing setup I don't typically like to keep plants under the light that long. Its always a disappointment to put all that time, energy and care into a plant just to see its got some balls on it. So my game plan is to give main lining a shot, and when the males are identified I'm just going to graft some ladies to it instead (Thanks for the idea Darpa!).
I read on here a few times that grafting to a male isn't recommended, but I couldn't find where anyone gave evidence why (other than they THOUGHT it wasn't a good idea). I understand the ideas is that males tend to senesce (grow old) faster than females. So for those of you that have done this before, have you actually tried flowering a female on a male root stock? I managed to find one post here where a user flowered out a female on male roots and didn't have an issue. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8175786&postcount=11 . Anyhow, I have some seedlings that are getting close to being ready for the first cut in mainlining, and I will post back here as I start to graft the males.
I want to start trying to mainline a few plants for my first time. However due to my growing setup I don't typically like to keep plants under the light that long. Its always a disappointment to put all that time, energy and care into a plant just to see its got some balls on it. So my game plan is to give main lining a shot, and when the males are identified I'm just going to graft some ladies to it instead (Thanks for the idea Darpa!).
I read on here a few times that grafting to a male isn't recommended, but I couldn't find where anyone gave evidence why (other than they THOUGHT it wasn't a good idea). I understand the ideas is that males tend to senesce (grow old) faster than females. So for those of you that have done this before, have you actually tried flowering a female on a male root stock? I managed to find one post here where a user flowered out a female on male roots and didn't have an issue. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8175786&postcount=11 . Anyhow, I have some seedlings that are getting close to being ready for the first cut in mainlining, and I will post back here as I start to graft the males.
Hookahhead
Active member
Also on the Johnny Appleseed topic... The way it was conveyed to me in one of my Biology classes was that he was on a classic pheno hunt. As others have said apples do not grow true to seed (grow similar to their parents) and a lot of time you just end up with "crab apples". The only way to find a good edible variety is to stumble upon it in nature, or pop thousands of beans looking for those few outstanding plants. Fortunately the unappealing apples could still be turned into cider, just as we can turn an undesirable plant into hash. A lot of times hard cider wasn't intentional, but that's naturally what happens when you let a barrel of apple juice sit without refrigeration and preservatives. It's reported back then EVERYONE drank hard cider (including children) because it was regarded as safer than drinking unsanitized water.
I have done lots of grafting....I started a mini orgchard.... in most large orchards they use crab apples as pollinator......one good reason you get crappy apples from seed....whether its apples....or weed...best to start with known parents......
The apple tree is an unusual plant. It’s what’s called an “extreme heterozygote,” meaning the fruit it produces is highly varied from one plant to another.
I just made some hash today with an undesirable plant....lol......dry ice hash.....
The apple tree is an unusual plant. It’s what’s called an “extreme heterozygote,” meaning the fruit it produces is highly varied from one plant to another.
I just made some hash today with an undesirable plant....lol......dry ice hash.....
If that doesn’t work, you could always upgrade to this complete grafting kit:
$2 at your local dollar store.
LOL....but mine maintains the same angle in graft and scion..... harder to do with your fancy rig.... I also have some grafting clips to hold them firmly together....
https://www.amazon.com/Davids-Garde...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=MJ41ENQY3VA4R366F7CG
These are the clips
https://www.amazon.com/Davids-Garde...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=MJ41ENQY3VA4R366F7CG
These are the clips
For the sake of clarity, in my kit the tape is the clip. As the stem expands, it sheds the tape.
It’s just import to pinch the sticky side together as shown in the little loop next to the dispenser. That’s what makes it work so well - perfect pressure on the graft union, a nice seal, and auto-removal!
Makes a handy scion tag in the process.
It’s just import to pinch the sticky side together as shown in the little loop next to the dispenser. That’s what makes it work so well - perfect pressure on the graft union, a nice seal, and auto-removal!
Makes a handy scion tag in the process.
Hookahhead
Active member
So zif, you basically just tape the scion on the graft using the tape loop? Just a single layer, no plastic wrap?
Yup. They take faster than clones root, too. You can tell if it’s good in three or four days.
I do use little humidity ‘slips’ over the scion. Made from the white translucent plastic dollar store bag. ;-)
*see post 208 in this thread for a picture
Darpa
Member
Hi guys!
I'll do a lot of tutorial about grafting in a near future. but I wanted to try an other experiment for your enjoyment… I didn't open a new thread since I will end posting posts about multi strain grafting on my Biker kush X (original glue 4 x Cookie Wreck) cut…. But for now I wanted to do an hardcore defoliations on clone with a control spécimen. These cuts were taken from a flowering plant at 6 weeks in flowering.. so it was basically cloning a bud…. (yes you can do it and I was able to root 100% of the cut easily) So for this experiment, I will perform a drastic defoliation on one of the clone. We'll compare the plant biological response with an untouched cut for comparaison… Stay tunes for the next experiment…. It's going to be fun…
So here the two cut of Biker kush X (original glue 4 x Cookies Wreck) untouched.
The left plant is the Guinay pig and the right one is the control (For QA)
And then after defoliation of the left plant....
Here is the mother plant I took the cut from…
Stay tune
Cheer!
Darpa
I'll do a lot of tutorial about grafting in a near future. but I wanted to try an other experiment for your enjoyment… I didn't open a new thread since I will end posting posts about multi strain grafting on my Biker kush X (original glue 4 x Cookie Wreck) cut…. But for now I wanted to do an hardcore defoliations on clone with a control spécimen. These cuts were taken from a flowering plant at 6 weeks in flowering.. so it was basically cloning a bud…. (yes you can do it and I was able to root 100% of the cut easily) So for this experiment, I will perform a drastic defoliation on one of the clone. We'll compare the plant biological response with an untouched cut for comparaison… Stay tunes for the next experiment…. It's going to be fun…
So here the two cut of Biker kush X (original glue 4 x Cookies Wreck) untouched.
The left plant is the Guinay pig and the right one is the control (For QA)
And then after defoliation of the left plant....
Here is the mother plant I took the cut from…
Stay tune
Cheer!
Darpa
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Nice. Looking forward to seeing your results!
FWIW, I tried defoliation with half of a plant, also trying to hold as much constant as possible. There was zero effect. A couple of grams better yield on the non-defoliated side, but well within the margin of error. More important to me, zero effect on quality. Certainly could be a result of the shared root system, but I’m too stingy with my plant count allowance to try clones!
Darpa
Member
The purpose of this defoliation experiment is to analyze the morphological and physiological response of the cannabis plant to defoliation at early stage and elaborate how defoliation affect growth, internode spacing, auxiliary buds induction, lateral shoots growth and overall plant productivity.
I believe that we will see a decreased in auxin content and increased in ethylene level after defoliation. Since auxin inhibits the activation of axillary buds, and hence shoot branching, the defoliation may generate a bushier plant.
Similar studies were performed on other plant species…
Defoliation causes morphological and physiological changes in plants which are regulated by the plant hormones (Gifford and Evans 1981, Liu and Zhang 1992, Khan et al. 2002b) The growth and photosynthetic ability of plants after defoliation are associated with the synthesis of auxin, abscisic acid, and ethylene.
Moderate defoliation overcoming a threshold value results in the emergence of new leaves with modified assimilatory capacity and stimulates relative growth rate (Oesterheld 1992, Zhao et al. 2008). Alados et al. (1997) reported an enlargement of the stem, increase in leaf and flower number, greater vegetative growth and inflorescence length.
Also, it seem that defoliation can affect the alkaloid content of a plant. Field-grown wild tobacco plants (Nicotiana sylvestris) were subjected to a defoliation regime. Undamaged leaves on these plants undergo a dramatic (457% for leaf position 5, 410% for leaf position 8) increase in total leaf alkaloids compared to same-age and positioned control leaves on undamaged control plants…
Darpa
I believe that we will see a decreased in auxin content and increased in ethylene level after defoliation. Since auxin inhibits the activation of axillary buds, and hence shoot branching, the defoliation may generate a bushier plant.
Similar studies were performed on other plant species…
Defoliation causes morphological and physiological changes in plants which are regulated by the plant hormones (Gifford and Evans 1981, Liu and Zhang 1992, Khan et al. 2002b) The growth and photosynthetic ability of plants after defoliation are associated with the synthesis of auxin, abscisic acid, and ethylene.
Moderate defoliation overcoming a threshold value results in the emergence of new leaves with modified assimilatory capacity and stimulates relative growth rate (Oesterheld 1992, Zhao et al. 2008). Alados et al. (1997) reported an enlargement of the stem, increase in leaf and flower number, greater vegetative growth and inflorescence length.
Also, it seem that defoliation can affect the alkaloid content of a plant. Field-grown wild tobacco plants (Nicotiana sylvestris) were subjected to a defoliation regime. Undamaged leaves on these plants undergo a dramatic (457% for leaf position 5, 410% for leaf position 8) increase in total leaf alkaloids compared to same-age and positioned control leaves on undamaged control plants…
Darpa
