Cannabinoids vis a vis Opioids.

[Gray Wolf]

I should probably just keep my mouth shut but I think I need to chime in here. I don't want to insult Gray Wolf (and, it always seems like I'm insulting someone LOL) so don't get this wrong because it is directed at everyone who says pot relieves their pain, not soley you. but, I think it's totally insane to compare pot with Percodan. Holy cow. Talk about apples and oranges.

I suffer with pain 24/7. And, anxiety and and and... let's just talk pain for a moment.

I have been through a dozen surgeries since I turned 50. And a few before that. All minor shit (knee scopes, back decompressive laminectomy, etc) but, each one requiring a rehab period and a recovery period. All with Perc or some other oxy. And, I have been your typical drug abuser since 1968. I have a degenerative back. My spine looks like a jigsaw puzzle. I have bone spurs on my feet that make every step painful. I go to the gym almost every day and maintain a firm core and (as much as can be for an old drug abused worn out 65 year old) body as fit as possible. I'm not a lay-around.

I had my first back surgery back in 1990 and I still have pills left over from that. LOL After each surgery, I would get a script for 50 to 100 oxy to take me through recovery. I think this is pretty typical for whatever surgeries I had.

I would take them for the first few days. That recovery pain the first few days is fucking crazy. You can't do anything but pee and eat (and, it's painful to do even that). Anyone who has had surgery (which is most people, I believe) knows what I mean about those first few days of recovery.

Or, the other side of the coin is a trauma injury (which has also happened to me). I flipped a tractor over and fell about 10 feet onto my neck. It was a week or so before the MRI and surgery was scheduled so during that short time, the doctor gave me another giant bottle of oxy. I took about 10 to get me up to the day of surgery and the rest are sill in my cupboard.

Pile on top of all that, over 50 car wrecks. Totaled 4. Flipped 2. Heavy drinker and driver in my youth.

OK, there's my resume so I'm no virgin to pot or Opiates. And, I'm certainly no virgin to pain.

And, we have established 2 kinds of pain. My daily 24/7 pain. This is that burning, never ending, sometimes brutal pain. And the second kind... the absolute screaming injury and/or recovery pain. This is the kind of pain where you just sit and cry and beg someone to kill you.

OK, first the screaming pain.

2 or 3 percs will usually cut just about any pain I have ever had. And, I have had plenty. Toothache to major injury to that reoccurring back pain. Pop a few percs and that pain is gone.

Fortunately, it's been almost 2 years now since I have even had to take a perc or an oxy and I'm not looking forward to the next time I have to use them.

OK... now, to the point.

To think that pot is going to stop pain like that is nothing more than a joke to me. Impossible. Ain't gonna happen. Still, some people claim equal relief from pot and oxy. Bull shit, I say (albeit everyone is different and I am an open minded kind of guy)

OK, let's go to the everyday pain.

I had a gig last night and I played drums for 4 hours. Today, my back is screaming. Muscles are tightening around the lower and mid back and just squeezing the spine together causing pain and numbness in my arms and legs.

I have already smoked about 5 joints this morning with my coffee (which is pretty typical for me) and I don't believe my back hurts any less for it.

I could take a couple perc/oxy's and this pain would be gone gone gone. Even a couple aspirin would relieve more pain than the 5 joints have.

All the pot in the world isn't going to take this pain away. I ate a gram of rosin this week and, while I did get a little buzz, the pain relief effect was very very low.

Sorry for the rant and sorry (Gray Wolf) for making the rant in your thread. LOL But, I keep hearing about pot and pain relief and I just don't get it. Can I be different than the millions of people who are claiming to get pain relief from pot?

And, are these people who do get relief from pot willing to compare the relief they get from oxy and from pot and tell me that they compare in any way, shape or form? Like I said, I'm an open minded kind of guy but..... damn. LOL

I just don't get comparing oxy and cannabis. Apples and oranges.

OK, rant over. Sorry GW,

Comparing smoking or vaporizing, to mega oral doses of cannabis or topicals, are apples and oranges.

Having lived through multiple kidney stones, two knee replacements, shoulder decompression and debridement, and both serious bike and auto accidents, I'm not a stranger to either chronic or shrieking pain.

I will let everyone speak for themselves, but individual systems to vary, and opioids don't provide me much relief personally before I get a histamine reaction, and nothing has worked for shrieking pain like a kidney stone.

CBD topical works better for me than oral analgesics for muscle and joint pain. The sublingual troches work as well for chronic arthritic pain, without the load on my liver and kidneys.

I've never been addicted to Morphine sulfate, but I know at least two patients that were heavily addicted, and able to withdraw and stop by switching to 300 mg oil doses.

I think its fair to say that they both have their places, and the issue is more about abuse than efficacy.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Having lived through multiple kidney stones, two knee replacements, shoulder decompression and debridement, and both serious bike and auto accidents, I'm not a stranger to either chronic or shrieking pain.

Ouch, dude. LOL I am past due for my first knee replacement. Been scoped twice. Never had a kidney stone. Don't want one. LOL

CBD topical works better for me than oral analgesics for muscle and joint pain. The sublingual troches work as well for chronic arthritic pain, without the load on my liver and kidneys.

I have been wanting to to try topicals. On my bone spurs and well, for arthritis, I would have to bath in it. LMAO but, I definitely want to try topicals

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Comparing smoking or vaporizing, to mega oral doses of cannabis or topicals, are apples and oranges.[/FONT]

I prepare a full gram of rosin, decarb it and blend it with a little butter or coconut oil and a tiny bit of sunflower lechithin and eat the entire gram with a muffin or a piece of toast. Even if the rosin is only 60%, that's still about 600mg of THC. If that's not enough to kill my pain, I don't think there is enough in the world to do it. LOL I just don't subscribe to this entire cannabis and pain thing. Sure doesn't work for me.

I think its fair to say that they both have their places, and the issue is more about abuse than efficacy.

I definitely agree with that.

I think I abuse cannabis as much as anyone can abuse oxy (with the obvious exception of overdose). And, I can poop every day and the oxy-heads can't. Other than that, the addiction and the results of that addiction can be very much the same.

As for addiction, I am definitely addicted to cannabis. Long term. I have risked money, incarceration and all the other risks associated with oxy addiction. I put my wife at risk every day in this backwards ass state that I live it. It affects the amount and quality of effort that I put into every day. And, the reflective reward is, obviously less.

Pot has definitely affected my life and (other than the sheer pleasure that I get in growing it and having it as a hobby) it has never been a positive affect.

So, IMO pot is every bit as addictive as oxy and the end results of those addictions are very much the same. And, damn near as dangerous (only applies to illegal state)

I could say the same thing about so many things in my life. Ya know what ........ maybe it's just ME that's addictive. LOL

Oxy is dangerous in my hands. Pot is dangerous in my hands. No doubt, a gun is dangerous in my hands. Shit, a computer is dangerous in my hands.

My point?... agreeing with the poster who said it's the person, not the substance.

I am definitely an addict (of so many things). Not bragging. Just supporting your statement of it being more about abuse than efficacy.

 

[gaiusmarius]

i think not all strains work the same for pain.

also it's not only the thc, it's the combo of cbd and thc. the proportions might well also have an influence on the pain killing effects. even the terps might have some influence on the over all effect.

i think basically cannabis allows someone needing pain meds regularly, to reduce the amount of them needed to get through. most people will say that without being able to smoke, they will use 2 to 3 times as much opiates as when they can toke.

edibles must be correctly made and fully activated, heavy dose can't but help distract you from pain. although i'm not sure if i'd feel like eating an edible, if i was in bad pain of some kind, just imagine if it turns into one of those trips where everything is more intense lmao.

i do know that one of my relatives who's over 70 and has arthritis in her fingers, loves my holy shit anointing oil, it takes the pain away and gives her free movement in her fingers when she is suffering. so while it won't help everyone, enough folks are helped that its becoming known that it's worth trying it out.

i think there is info out there about pain killing effects of various clone only elites out there. get the right one and im sure it will help, maybe not completely, but better then nothing.

 

[Weird]

some strains are pain killers some accentuate pain

just like some pot can stimulate hunger or negate it depending on the chemical constituents

 

[CaptainDankness]

Nice video and theory, but I don't see how it changes the fact we have a growing national opiate addiction problem and that non addictive cannabinoid concentrates provide an alternative.

My niece was fully functioning, did not grow up in poverty, and did not suffer from racial biases.

Another measure of addiction, is what happens when you suddenly take the substance away...........

I don't blame it on the plant. I blame it on what is happening with our use of the plant, and note that the cold hard facts are that opiates have a significantly higher potential and history of abuse, regardless of whose theories we ascribe to.

Of course the #1 cause of the opiate overdoses of (heroin) are actually caused by fentanyl or even worse. They will also use a hot bag to kill someone because the demand for that stamp is going through the roof.

Opium, heroin, etc. are not the problem it's the dirty street dealers. You can get heroin in pill form in Europe but you don't have a clue the actual dose of street dope.

Same with LSD nobody has ever overdosed from it. Now we have people selling NBOMe on blotter as LSD and it has killed a few people, kids don't know any better really.

We don't need DARE in schools they need to be taught drug safety because they are going to do drugs. Lol

 

[GOT_BUD?]

Really wish I was in at least a med state. Someday I will be. And I'm guessing by 2020, my state will be moving to at least a med state. (It really comes down to the next governor's race. If we can boot out the guy we have now, it'll happen. If not, it'll be a few years yet.)

Anyways, Doc prescribed Oxy's for hip pain that I've been having for the last few months. Turns out I need to have a hip replaced because there is no cartilage in my left hip. It's bone on bone. The stuff she gave me before worked for about a week before it stopped working.

In the process of getting the script, they require you to sign a contract and take a piss test. Which I failed because my bro and I shared a blunt for christmas, per our 25 year tradition. She didn't withhold the script, but did say "You shouldn't be mixing cannabis with the pain medication."

My response to her was, "Well, if I had access to high quality cannabis, you and I wouldn't be having this discussion about narcotic painkillers. For me, it's a fantastic pain management tool."

I really think she didn't like that answer, but she didn't say anything about it after that.

I can hardly wait until I can harvest. I figure as long as I use the Oxys as prescribed, my withdrawal should be minimal. Unfortunately, I'm still a couple months out from that point. (I'll also be taking samples every now and then for quality control. ;-) )

 

[Phaeton]

I survived genital torture as a child. A few years back I passed a 3mm kidney stone without any medication at all because the nurse insisted on a 1 to 10 scale of pain, no pain to the worst pain.
After protesting the scale does not function with me I gave the pain and honest 6, I was still coherent. 7 is when situational awareness begins to get fuzzy. By the time 8 is reached when and where is getting lost, and by 10 there is no knowledge of who I even am.
That is pain.
Opiates quit at 7 and marijuana (265mg extract doses) quits at 2.

Still, for minor dull pain I use MJ in very large doses. For slightly more pain I use home grown poppy pods.
For real pain I no longer even attempt to fix it, too frustrating. It is easier to just go elsewhere for the duration.

I realize I am an outlier so no advice. If it works to keep you at peace then by all means use it, whatever it is.

 

[Gry]

Pardon me, but some perspective seems appropriate. My heart goes out to anyone who was stuck on the crap.
It really bothers me to see a thread of this nature that does not even reference the Sacklers, who knew exactly what they were turning loose on society.

OxyContin – a breakthrough opioid-based painkiller and Purdue’s largest revenue source – generated about $35 billion in sales from between 1995 and 2015, according to Forbes. The drug is widely considered a crucial player in sparking the opioid epidemic and made the Sacklers the 19th-richest family in 2016 America, with a $13 billion net worth.

More than 50,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses in 2016, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data show, and in recent years, Sackler-owned companies started marketing OxyContin overseas.
OxyContin Enriched The Sacklers Through Purdue’s Aggression, False Claims and Propaganda
https://dailycaller.com/2017/10/09/...in-apparently-spends-zilch-rehabbing-addicts/

Bless Gray Wolf for making extracts more widely available to the masses.

 

[igrowone]

Pardon me, but some perspective seems appropriate. My heart goes out to anyone who was stuck on the crap.
It really bothers me to see a thread of this nature that does not even reference the Sacklers, who knew exactly what they were turning loose on society.

OxyContin – a breakthrough opioid-based painkiller and Purdue’s largest revenue source – generated about $35 billion in sales from between 1995 and 2015, according to Forbes. The drug is widely considered a crucial player in sparking the opioid epidemic and made the Sacklers the 19th-richest family in 2016 America, with a $13 billion net worth.

More than 50,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses in 2016, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data show, and in recent years, Sackler-owned companies started marketing OxyContin overseas.
OxyContin Enriched The Sacklers Through Purdue’s Aggression, False Claims and Propaganda
https://dailycaller.com/2017/10/09/...in-apparently-spends-zilch-rehabbing-addicts/

closest precedent that comes to mind are the Krupp's of germany
maybe Winchester in the usa, but that was more about a woman going crazy with guilt and building a strange mansion
though i'm sure there quite a few other family lines with paths of guilt

 

[CaptainDankness]

Pardon me, but some perspective seems appropriate. My heart goes out to anyone who was stuck on the crap.
It really bothers me to see a thread of this nature that does not even reference the Sacklers, who knew exactly what they were turning loose on society.

OxyContin – a breakthrough opioid-based painkiller and Purdue’s largest revenue source – generated about $35 billion in sales from between 1995 and 2015, according to Forbes. The drug is widely considered a crucial player in sparking the opioid epidemic and made the Sacklers the 19th-richest family in 2016 America, with a $13 billion net worth.

More than 50,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses in 2016, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data show, and in recent years, Sackler-owned companies started marketing OxyContin overseas.
OxyContin Enriched The Sacklers Through Purdue’s Aggression, False Claims and Propaganda
https://dailycaller.com/2017/10/09/...in-apparently-spends-zilch-rehabbing-addicts/

Bless Gray Wolf for making extracts more widely available to the masses.

There has always been plenty of heroin and opiates in America. I don't think it's as simple as blaming big pharma because people like to get high. The main thing causing all the over dose deaths is prohibition. You can't be sure you are getting clean heroin most of the overdoses are caused by fentanyl.

It should all be legal because it's not going away.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Actually, 50k people a year barely makes the top 10. More people die from asthma, the flu, kidney disorder, and, oddly enough, suicide than opiate overdose.

And, if Fentanyl keeps spreading, it's going to kill off the junkies in no time. Albeit, new ones arise every day.

I think we should blame Henry Ford for all the car accidents. And, blame Ray Kroc for all the fat people. I know for sure that cancer is RJ Reynolds fault because I saw it on the TV news.

One thing for sure.... it's not the junkie's fault. Just ask anyone. LMAO

 

['Boogieman']

I said something I probably shouldn't say.

 

[Pinnate]

The main thing causing all the over dose deaths is prohibition. You can't be sure you are getting clean heroin most of the overdoses are caused by fentanyl.

Indeed CD, prohibition has probably caused more death and injury than the two World Wars combined...

And the absurd WOD is still killing people, most of whom who are guilty of NO crime whatever!

 

[~star~crash~]

i forget ... has anyone talked about how cannabis can ease the pain of opiate withdrawal ??