Cannabinoid profiles of your strains - home kit??

[muddy waters]

that cannalyze test sounds like it was worth it for ya, zamalito, since you seem especially interested in the THCV. i think the sensation one gets is pretty subjective and the typical 'indica or sativa couchlock or cerebral' thing is a pretty worthless description for me... but no doubt there is some chemical correlation and now you'll be able to measure what it is. the makers of that test ought receive samples from all over the world and post the data! (ha!) or maybe someone ought to send reeferman and the other big landrace collectors one of these test kits.

we deserve to know!

 

[THCV]

well, greenhouse seeds has THC, CBD and CBN levels for most of their strains (no THCV, CBG or CBC, unfort). Reeferman could easily do the same, and not with a home test kit but with a real, pro TLC lab in A'dam. I guess we all need to ask the pro seed breeders to do this for their strains and hope they'll listen (they certainly have the cash!); as more people get turned on to the medical aspects of MJ it will be more and more important to be aware of the cannabinoid profile of a given strain to be used for a given ailment. We already know that one size does NOT fit all with MJ, but the available degree of specificity in choosing medical strains has been stymied by a lack of cannabinoid profile data. Sativa, Indica or Hybrid ain't enough.

Bring the strain cannabinoid profile database!

 

[DoobieDuck]

Zamalito I am growing a Malawi Gold that will finish in about 30 days. I have a Malawi grow thread if you search my threads. I'll only know then how energetic it is. I will update the thread and post a smoke report when she is finished, Dr. Duck.

 

[zamalito]

It'll also be interesting to see how chemotype is inherited from parent to offspring especially as far as males are concerned. It almost seems like a waste to run a test on a male and i probably won't with the first pack. But I feel like most breeders male selection techniques are slightly better than random at best (with a few definite exceptions) and these tests will give an onjective method.

 

[Delta9-THC]

I like the idea of this ....
but not sure all breeders would go for it ....
after all haven't most people on the boards said they don't really believe the numbers anyway?
I personally don't care about the thc% or at least for now its seems not to accurate

Peace

 

[muddy waters]

if just one of the major seed dealers were to post valid, verifiable data for all their strains, i suspect that this would inspire many others to start doing the same. then we'd probably have a bunch of made-up numbers from some people, but this would go a long way in separating the real deal breeders from the wannabes.

don't get me started ranting about the seed scene...

testing male tissue would be pretty interesting although i have created seed from unspectacular, randomly chosen males (a blue mystic and a mango) and in both cases the progeny were marvelous. so i don't buy the 'you need that 1-in-1000 trich-covered male for breeding' line that i've heard from some of the seed dealer types.

 

[Delta9-THC]

Muddy ~ Im with you on the whole male 1-1000 type stuff

And ... I agree "Don't get me started!"

Peace

 

[zamalito]

Once again I'm with you 100% muddy. I've made a couple posts already asking about trying to get a handle on male inheritance and potency/chemotype. Even with the cannalyze tests since most of the chemotype of females is synthesized in resin glands and males synth most of their cannabinoids in plant tissure and non glandular trichs there's a lot of traits as far as high and potency that I'm thinking just won't show up in a male. But even if that's the case the tests might at least help us be more concrete on that.

That reminds me of this thing I saw on tv about how the highest paid athlete in the world is a stud horse that wasn't even a champion. The horse's offspring are proven however and are winners time and time again. There's a few traits that are exceptions but I think the best method is just to make your best most informed guess and test the offspring.

 

[THCV]

hey zamalito, any update on the testing for us?

 

[Daytripper]

Those test kits are a waste of money as far as being useful for breeding. They give a postive or negative not a percentage.I was told this by a well respected breeder who's name I won't drop.

What you need is High Performance Liquid Chromatography or MS/GC.HPLC is less expensive if money matters.

"Tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV) is a propyl analogue of Δ
9-THC, primarily appearing in indica and afghanica varieties of cannabis, such as hashish from Nepal (Merkus 1971), dagga from South Africa (Boucher et al. 1977),
and in plants cultivated from seeds from Zambia (Pitts et al. 1992) (Figure 1).
THCV is only 20-25% as psychoactive as Δ 9-THC (Hollister 1974). It has a quicker onset of action than Δ 9 THC (Gill et al. 1970), and is of briefer duration (Clarke 1998)."

Cannabis and Cannabis Extracts:
Greater Than the Sum of Their Parts?
John M. McPartland. and Ethan B. Russo.

John M. McPartland, DO, MS, is affiliated with GW Pharmaceuticals, Ltd., Porton
Down Science Park, Salisbury, Wiltshire, SP4 0JQ, UK.


Since thcv is at best 20 to 25% as potent as thc Δ 9 thc , you people want to increase its percentage? Seems to me that your going backwards.

Thcv is not a controlled substance in the Netherlands, pool your money and find out why professional breeders are not working on increasing thcv.

You know what Sam_skunkman says about Thcv? Nothing good. He also says you'll be surprised and not like the effects of pure thcv , you do know its an anandamide antagonist. Right? Are you familiar with unpleasant?

I think I know what you are after its a non cannabinoid enhancer. Read
Cannabis and Cannabis Extracts:
Greater Than the Sum of Their Parts?

Giving the answer is like giveing a man a fish. Read the newest and latest research papers for accurate information, thats the price of education leading to success.

Allow him the diginity of catching his own fish.

Did I kill this thread?

 

[THCV]

Yeah, yeah, i've read ALL of that. Why do you think THCV is my handle? One guy's opinion, even if it is a legendary dude, isn't really enough since the high is always subjective, and different cannabinoids effect different people differently. GW pharma has pure THCV strains, btw, so actual professional breeders, legal in fact, have indeed been working with it (i wish we could get their strains, but it is their IP and we can't). Those of us interested in this have every right to be. Due to it's anandamide antagonist properties, THCV appears to curb appetite, so one thing i am interested in is a strain with a fast, clear high and NO MUNCHIES. We can dream, right? Why be a downer, when there is no final word on this?

Look, HPLC or MS/GC is obviously the ideal. I have a good friend who works in the top Ivy league chem lab, and i was in there looking at their totally insane multi-million-dollar lab, including the best MS/GC gear on earth (actually, two of them, the top two). I asked him if we could throw some of my stash, which i had on me, in it for a quick read. He balked--he could lose his job, the lab could lose it's funding etc. due to the Feds being Nazis about herb. This is an aside, but the point is, a home test kit at least gives you some insight, and the best machines are off limits in the US.

Right now we are driving blind; with MS/GC it's like a new windshield with new wiper blades and a fresh squirt of windex. Yeah, that's great, but unavailable. This home kit is more like a dirty windshield with shitty blades, but it's still more info than driving with your eyes closed!

Anyway, zamalito bought the damn thing, so let's hear some results. You definitely didn't kill the thread --nice try though .

 

[Daytripper]

Once again I'm with you 100% muddy. I've made a couple posts already asking about trying to get a handle on male inheritance and potency/chemotype.

Zamilito,

Males pass 50 % of their genes, males do pass genes involved in chemotype. See McPartland's research papers for confirmation , don't remember off hand the title of that paper.

There are studies done that prove males pass potency and chemotype. These studies clearly define simple ways to increase potency in as little as 2 generations. including charts of chem analysis of both parents and progeny.Clearly proving males influience on potency expressed in female progeny.

Michael Starks book marijuana chemistry has a fair amount of info on thcv varieties and charts from lab tests done on plants at various stages of growth showing % 's of Thcv from veg to bud both male and female plants were tested.Including environmental conditions that increase levels of THcv by up to 25%. I was just reading it this morning.

Sam_Skunkman ||- title:Breeding for a Particular Type of High|| ||author:Sam_Skunkman|| ||forum:29||
I know people who have smoked pure THCV and it is not very good at all.
Cannabis varieties with THCV of up to 7-10% with 1% THC and no CBD were also sampled and no one liked the high THCV varieties.
It is not more intense it is maybe 1/4 as strong as THC by weight. It may have faster onset and shorter duration.
Maybe it helps in very small amounts to synergize with the THC, but I do not think so.
Where is the real reports that show THCV does have the reputed effects you think it does?

I suspect it is all just guessing and repeating what others have said that do not know in the first place.

But maybe small amounts of THCV are helpfull with THC, but I bet not.

-SamS

So if Thcv has recreational potential why are coffee shops not selling pure Thcv strains?

Cause they wouldn't sell very well.


I get the feeling I am not welcome to post what I know about Thcv so I should exit before I tell you what regents react changing color in the presence of Thcv, but THCV knows it all anyways.

 

[THCV]

ok. so the infamous Sam Skunkman says "I know people who have smoked pure THCV and it is not very good at all." How many degrees are we removed from personal experience now? Daytripper quotes Sam who references "people"? Oh please. Where are all the strains with Thcv? Who frikkin knows because there is NO ONE selling seeds that claims they will grow plants with Thcv, because NO ONE TEST FOR IT! At least, no seed banks or other breeders that are on ICM, just random academic and other researchers who often run tests with schwag and hemp that they were able to locate, as far as what i have read, but rarely are they able to say where to get the strain they are sampling in their studies.

As sam himself says, "I suspect it is all just guessing and repeating what others have said that do not know in the first place." Ex-frikin-zactly. How about we find out some first-hand truth here? What we DO know is THCV is a cannabinoid that is rare and not much is known about its effects, in particular the modulating effects it has on the THC high.

Point is this: this little test can tell us if a strain likely to have Thcv (ie Malawi) actually has it, and from there we can try out the smoke test and get our breeding on.

I wouldn't want 10% Thcv and 1% Thc, it's no surprise no one liked it, sounds like hemp. In fact, i have no interest in any strain that is below 15% Thc. What i want to try is a strain that has HIGH Thc and High Thcv. Until someone who HAS ACTUALLY SMOKED IT can reply, do us all a favor and chill out with your hating on this thread, Daytripper.

THC is obviously what we most seek. But high THC in the presence of Thcv might indeed be better, but how can we know without accurate heuristics and actual experience? We can't.

 

[Daytripper]

Since I'm logged on why not bump this up.

 

[THCV]

oh, a bump with no new comment, DT? what, did you get convinced of my argument?

 

[tiedye420]

I personally have at least 50 strains and crosses, a good amount of them landrace and heirloom. That i would love to see testing on any and or all of them...
If only to give me a better idea on building the better closet breed.
It's my creeper sativa drug strains and afghani's that would be of most interest of course.... Something about the high to BOTH of my creeper phenos that already have me curious as to the chemical composition of them.

 

[zamalito]

I don't doubt that thcv smoked in its pure form is a dumb way to get high. I've said previously that strains over 60% thcv are probably not very desirable. Also since thcv starts from a precurser with a propyl side chain presence of thcv indicates the possible presence of other recently discovered propyl cannabinoids of which the psychoactivity is unknown. Also potency of thcv is all over the board. The synergistic effect is very hard to say esp when cbd cbdv cbnv cbn and delta 6 thcv among others are taken into consideration. it is very complicated. I feel that the correct thcv content iis key to the energetic cerebral yet non paranoid strong high.

As far as inheritance of chemotype there's a few complications. One of which is it seems african sativas have a chemotype which is dominant. I must admit I was informed incorrectly about afropips practice of using african males for breeding. I read someone who was wrong and without first checking I passed on that info since it made sense at the time. My experience with using male african sativas to make hybrids is nonexistant and I assumed this might work. However Djshort suggests the presence of endophytic nectary cells in glandular trichomes. Since the genetics of endophytic cells by definition are solely inherited by the ovum donor this would mean a portion of the resin producing mechanism in the trichome is solely contributed by the mother.

 

[esbe]

i just resieved some local ghana seeds, anybody here knows anything about ghana genetics? unfortunally i didnt resieve any pix or strain info...

 

[zamalito]

Esbe I sent you a pm regarding ghanaian genetics. Sorry its taken so long but I just wanted to let you guys know that the cannalyze requires a milligram accurate scale to produce accurate results but the good news is I will order one this week so I will have a good array of test results put up very soone.

 

[Safari]

This is a great thread! I can't wait to see the results from your test Zamalito. I have learned alot from this thread, and hopfully we will know even more after you complete your tests.