Canna Boost V Molasses - side by side comparison.

[*mistress*]

hi Hazy Lady, no haven't used that particular brand of coir

I haven't used molasses, was about to do a search after checking to see anything on coco forum and so here I am

I use canna coco coir, a+b, pk13/14, cannazyme, epsom salts, and rhizo. Unfortunately for me boost is out of reach, so I also will be watching but more importantly I will find some blackstrap in my country, and add to my feeds.

A question about ppms. I'll need to be taking the increase in ppms into consideration and scaling back something else? What did we say molasses is, a sugar? I am not up on NPK ratios and changing things like this might affect other levels and such......but like you, I'm thinking how to get a better yield for less cash out.

Also interested in adding more natural things, like making a worm farm and adding worm casting tea? Hmmm, wanna go organic but no time to learn new methods right now. so...

Does it affect ppms?

BTW, your mango haze, looks real nice. I smoked a haze a couple weekends ago at a friend's and the aftertaste was so fruity, so mango I loved it. until I saw the BBQ then I was off forgetting about those subtle flavors as the music gets my attention =)

this may be helpful/interesting. yes, ppms are affected. the nutrition facts on the back of food products are based on either a 2,000, or a 2,500 calorie diet.

so, for wholesome sweeteners molasses, @ 730 mg per tbspn (22 g), bottle states 20% of daily values (dv), or .2*3500 (daily recommendation for potassium intake)=700 mg.

have not found if this is listed as elemental potassium, or k20, which would have to be converted to elemental p, or .83*730=605.9 mg per tbspn. so, w/ pure math, would have 605-730 ppm per liter;

or 605/3.785=159.84 ppm k, or,

730/3.785=192.86 ppm k.

the formulas for converting mg/l to ppms should be on the linked thread. the nute calculator is good, too, though still not sure how it comes up w/ different #'s than the greenhouse math formulas. has to do w/ the weight/volume of the liquids; or the grams per ml.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=134356&highlight=calculating+npk
calculating npk/nutrient profile (of molasses; still much work to be done...)

&

http://www.cabrillo.edu/~pshaw/Hort125%20Hydroponics/Hydro_calculating_nutrients_for_solutions.pdf

enjoy your garden!

 

[Hazy Lady]

Thanks everyone

Thanks everyone

@ Darookie, I (touch wood) never had PM but I did have 4 separate outbreaks of bud rot among my last crop, nothing major but it has got me concerned about foliar feeding, however, early on I do spray but never Boost!, I had no idea you could use it this way, I am going to have a look at this shortly but I agree it would be a cheaper way to go, and really effective sprayed.

@ sunday's child, haha, sorry sweetie, I used a little poetic license there, I couldn't think of two users fast enough and you had just posted so........

@ cornflake, Hi, Yes it does alter EC, or PPM's in your case, I am not sure of the various readings as they start the different feeds at lights-on tonight but I will post them and we can come back to it if you like

@ jackiee, Hiya, Thank-you, If it looks ok after a few day's I think you can say it is safe eh?, I did fry some plants using a no-name dry brick years ago and I worry a bit, hey! at least it is lighter than Canna coco being a little drier, that helps loads!!!!, Thanks to everyone for adding to this, I do appreciate it

 

[Hazy Lady]

Superb

Superb

*mistress*, I missed you then as I posted, Thank-you so much, this is very helpful and interesting, I am really grateful to you , and I was thinking using Molasses might simplify things

 

[cornflake]

thanks mistress, nice thread

 

[*mistress*]

It's an (carbohydrate)..., This information came from one of the technical Canna reps in the US, so as long as I did not screw up my explanation, I have no reason to doubt its validity.

molasses alone has lots of carbohydrates... +sugars to feed microbes.

as in sales rep? that makes questioning validity/need more a priority... ask for specific ingredients of ferts. see if they provide data then. 80% of occasions, when get to what stuff is actually comprised of, can duplicate w/ food grade/alternative items; they stop revealing specs then...

have yet to see any fertilizer companies convey info about simple cornmeal being 9-0-0. why would they? they want you to buy their 9-0-0 fert... or to recommend using regular molasses. they will always recommend their product that was 'derived from' molasses, or this/that, & they always say it was placed thru many, many processes...

sometimes common materials can act as substitute(s)...

they would never steer a gardener away from their products to a gallon molasses for ~10 coins, which does same thing as their xx coins product... or they would no longer be sales rep...

if works, good. their are alternatives to conventional nutes though; most fert sales rep will never say this - even if they know.

enjoy your garden!

 

[darookie2000]

molasses alone has lots of carbohydrates... +sugars to feed microbes.

as in sales rep? that makes questioning validity/need more a priority... ask for specific ingredients of ferts. see if they provide data then. 80% of occasions, when get to what stuff is actually comprised of, can duplicate w/ food grade/alternative items; they stop revealing specs then...

have yet to see any fertilizer companies convey info about simple cornmeal being 9-0-0. why would they? they want you to buy their 9-0-0 fert... or to recommend using regular molasses. they will always recommend their product that was 'derived from' molasses, or this/that, & they always say it was placed thru many, many processes...

sometimes common materials can act as substitute(s)...

they would never steer a gardener away from their products to a gallon molasses for ~10 coins, which does same thing as their xx coins product... or they would no longer be sales rep...

if works, good. their are alternatives to conventional nutes though; most fert sales rep will never say this - even if they know.

enjoy your garden!

He's not a sales rep, I chatted with him for about 3 hours at a vendor day at my local hydro shop, but he was not the sales guy, they sent another rep who was the sales rep. He's the guy who answers all the support questions on Canna USA's website, and I know it's a little suspicious considering the source, but he did admit to me that one of the weaknesses of their bio-terra plus mix is that they can't sterilize it on the way out of holland to the US, so they had been having a number of issues with bugs (I had been paying like $23 a bag for it at the time, and I have since changed mediums because it wasn't drying quickly enough for me to avoid the gnats), but that they were looking for better ways to more effectively control the quality. I did the standard litmus test that I do for reps at these things which is ask how they feel about other brands, and if they don't have anything good to say about specific brands that I have used (or heard very good things about from reliable sources), then I take what they say with a grain of salt.

He also told me that the only difference between Bio Boost and Boost is the addition of minerals, and talked me out of buying PK13/14 because I was too late in my grow to use it, so I'm not really that concerned with his credibility. Feel free to ask him questions on the Canna USA website if you want, I'm sure he won't mind.

John from Cutting Edge Solutions, who I think is the chief scientist/inventor/founder there, told me that for a mag additive all anyone really ever needs is epsom salts, but that he couldn't justify selling liquid epsom salts to people for a high price, so I think he went to research adding chelates to more effectively absorb mag. He's not a sales rep, but was honored when someone compared his results to Canna because his cost about half the price, and he admitted that Canna is a great line.

When the Advanced Nutrients rep told me that he wasn't impressed with Canna, for example, I totally discounted most of the information that he had given me earlier about the benefits of his products (although I did hear him recommend that a new grower not try connoisseur because of potential problems with it).

 

[analogue]

This is a great topic for research indeed. I'm curious to know which
oligosaccharide(s) is used in Boost and how it (technically) influences
metabolism, and specifically photosynthesis.

 

[*mistress*]

darookie2000...good to hear you got all you could out of the reps & were able to filter thru the lingo, to get knowledge + opinions + general concepts...

enjoy your garden!

 

[darookie2000]

darookie2000...good to hear you got all you could out of the reps & were able to filter thru the lingo, to get knowledge + opinions + general concepts...

enjoy your garden!

Thanks, I am! I think I may have misunderstood, it looks like PK 13/14 is supposed to be used for a week and boost is supposed to be used longer. I will have to double check, but it looks like others are using it throughout most of the flower cycle. I will try to check again. I have noticed significant blooming on my plants - two weeks in flower and they are in full bloom. I'm hoping to ride out the stretch as much as I can, lol, got a little too much veg time and I have two plants that take up half the tent.

 

[*mistress*]

Thanks, I am! I think I may have misunderstood, it looks like PK 13/14 is supposed to be used for a week and boost is supposed to be used longer. I will have to double check, but it looks like others are using it throughout most of the flower cycle. I will try to check again. I have noticed significant blooming on my plants - two weeks in flower and they are in full bloom. I'm hoping to ride out the stretch as much as I can, lol, got a little too much veg time and I have two plants that take up half the tent.

have never used canne nutes, but the pk product seems like kool bloom, @ 0-10-10... dont see why this cant be used thru out flowering. @ least from wk 4-8...

higher night temps can minimize stretch.

the molasses is not so much to boost the cal, mg & k, but to chelate the nutes present, feed the microbes and keep ph balanced...

although, if use enough molasses, have substituted traditional nutes for it alone. has a npk of ~1-0-5, but there is trace phosphorus in there, as well as many trace micronutrients.

t/table spoon is doable, @ every watering, w/out messing up mixes.

 

[Hazy Lady]

E.C Values, PK 13/14

E.C Values, PK 13/14

Thanks again all
*mistress*

have never used canne nutes, but the pk product seems like kool bloom, @ 0-10-10... dont see why this cant be used thru out flowering. @ least from wk 4-8...

I agree with you *m*, I don't see buds forming for only one or two weeks so I believe they need extra P and K throughout the bloom cycle. This is why I use PK13/14 from the start of week 2 @ 5ml per 10 Lts, repeat until week 8 but weeks 6 and 7, I up the amount to the 15mls Canna recommend.

I made a note of the E.C readings last night
My water from the tap is E.C, 0.63 (PH 7.5) yummmy!.

Control Nutrient (A+B, PK13/14, Liquid seaweed, Epsom) = E.C, 1.60

Canna Boost As above plus Boost @ 15mls* per 10Lts = E.C, 1.65

Molasses As above plus Molasses @ 1 Tablespoon per 10Lts = E.C, ( I have somehow misplaced the E.C for this ???, I will find it shortly and post it.) EDIT, The EC is 1.70

PH @ 5.8 in, 5.6 out.

* I started this intending to use 20 mls Boost simply because I used this amount, but I was reminded a tablespoon is 15ml (the molasses amount) so changed to 15mls to make it somewhat fairer mil for mil.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

this is a very interesting comparison

we used cannaboost for several months and in no way could we say the buds improved in any way from it.

its time to burst the buble im sure the molasses plans will do as WELL or BETTER. i use panela regularly and i really do like the results with it. panela is cane sugar crystalized, raw and un processed.

peace

 

[darookie2000]

this is a very interesting comparison

we used cannaboost for several months and in no way could we say the buds improved in any way from it.

its time to burst the buble im sure the molasses plans will do as WELL or BETTER. i use panela regularly and i really do like the results with it. panela is cane sugar crystalized, raw and un processed.

peace

With canna boost accelerating metabolism, it might help to feed more to see if that makes a difference. I had a K deficiency the day after I added boost, so it definitely does something. I am using both molasses and boost together, and noticing a much stronger smell than I had seen last round.

 

[Hazy Lady]

Is less more?

Is less more?

Thank's Bonecarver and darookie , Bonecarver, did you use the Boost on it's own? apart from your regular NPK's I mean.
We will be able to see if the Boost in combination with the Molasses gives better results on another couple of plants I have that receive both. I always thought it made sense that the Boost increases the metabolic rate and the Molasses fuels the process
As I said earlier I have been using both Boost and Molasses and getting great result's but the strains I grow now have never had any other diet so I have no idea if they could be better or worse. And reading things like this has me thinking less is more! In the 'Back from the cup' thread by OJD he says

"both the cups i just won were grown on a wilma sytem in coco pots recirculated with cana a-b and bcuzz bloom stimulator
i give them rhizotonic for the first week in the sytem thats it
nothing else,im one of those guys who dont want to be feeding all this crap to my plants unless its a massive diference
i try things but normaly revert back to the basics"

Food for thought!

Now just to go back a day or two, I said Zoo used Molasses and Boost and had not decided if one was better than the other. Brother Greystoke was kind enough to bring me up to date with Zoo's latest findings. He (Zoo) did land on one side but if no-one minds I won't post his results until I have finished this, besides my results may well vary, one way or the other we will have 2 sets to mull over. If anyone is losing sleep over Zoo's results PM me and I will spill the beanz

 

[*mistress*]

what exactly are these inputs supposed to produce?

&

how are the results to be measured across the many different gardens & their variations?

excluding y.eld, how can a gardener describe the terrior, texture, aromatics, and/or filling capacity of these inputs? or lack thereof?...

how do gardeners guage the efficacy of microbes, chelates, humates, etc, etc...? are these purely for aromatics, taste, aesthetics, etc?

maybe could create a scale to measure these various 'enhancers' 'tonics' 'food grade items' 'feed grade items' etc...

 

[bonecarver_OG]

i think the boost does NOTHING. zero, ziltch nada

- its all marketing hype
its as far as i can see the most scetchy product on the whole canna product line.

i think the boost product is most likelly a mollases product with green food colorant.

i think the idea with boost is the following; its very expensive, most people dont like feeling like idiots - so they make them self believe its actually doing something.

but its time to be honest - if anyone can in any way prove there is actually any efficiancy in the canna boost product. ill eat my keyboARD :d

but at the same ill swear by the efficiancy of molasses and panella. where off panela is far more concentrated than ordinary molasses.

"I always thought it made sense that the Boost increases the metabolic rate and the Molasses fuels the process"

hehe i wish plants were that simple BUT it is not so. this statement is very simplyfied and almost missleading.

the only thing that scientifically is proven is that NITROGEN is the only thing speeding up plant metabolism and AS ALL OF US KNOW nitrogen is a nono for resin production, and works against potency.

most of the complex sugars in molasses can not get absorbed by plants, but instead feed the microbial life in the medium, that in turn breaks it down and makes other components accessible to the plant roots.

we used a BIG amount of boost (at full dose) for a 4 month period with our well tested moms and i cant say in any way that it improved anything, rather the oposite. this is a shame since i do swear by all the other canna products, since we have been using them from the start.

there is other useless canna-products also - for example "canna flush"... who in the world would think its better to actually ad more products instead of using plain water for flushing...

so i hope its understod this post is not for slagging off anyones boost use etc - its rather just us sharing our experience.

with almost 60 euro a bottle, the canna boost is by far one of the most expensive products in the grow shop.

using 40 ml /10 liters and the bottle is gone in a week..

i rather recomend anyone to put in one more light for that money... i think its most likelly equalent of a 1000W ligth a month in costs, and definetly light intensity will allways improve the results. better than any prooduct ever will.

my 2 cent

 

[jackiee]

nice one bonecarver,im using canna boost because it was a gift, ill have to try to buy some panela or molasses as soon as possible as i only got a small bottle of boost.dont know where ill buy them in england though but ill start looking.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

molasses - in the supermarket i bet you will find blackstrap molasses. should be several brands to choose from peace i bet any supermarket like safeways, waitrose or what ever will have molasses

panela can most likelly be found in import-shops for imigrants since its a commonly used sweetener in south-american countries.

 

[*mistress*]

nice one bonecarver,im using canna boost because it was a gift, ill have to try to buy some panela or molasses as soon as possible as i only got a small bottle of boost.dont know where ill buy them in england though but ill start looking.

http://www.farmway.co.uk/equine-2/e...27/natural-animal-molasses-supplement-197.htm

in merry olde england...

 

[*mistress*]

molasses - in the supermarket i bet you will find blackstrap molasses. should be several brands to choose from peace i bet any supermarket like safeways, waitrose or what ever will have molasses

panela can most likelly be found in import-shops for imigrants since its a commonly used sweetener in south-american countries.

may be helpful to look into vinasse; since you around spain. vinasse is the effluent (waste) after making wine, etc... is considered a waste product, but many use it to simply feed crops w/.

also called stillage, etc... or, what left after cooking the sugar out of the mash... there are many waste products from industry that would qualify as 'organic', or 'inorganic' fertilizers.
many industries have to pay waste couriers to pick up & dispose of such effluents.

just like restaurants have to pay people to come & get rid of waste cooking oil... some people get it & acquire this for free ffrom greasy-spoons & fuel their vehicles...

basically same principle as molasses. all the sugar is squeezed out to make liquor, and the remainer is a nutrient-rich dark brown liquid - full of vitamins & minerals, etc...

should be able to get vinasse free from local, or other vineyrds, breweries, etc... nutrient profile is similar to, if not exceeding molasses. there are many research papers relevant to wine makers using this once waste product to fertilize crops in plance of traditional npk...

some molasses from some companies can have brewers condensed solubles, distillers grains, etc...

http://www.agriworld.nl/public/file/pdf/20090707-18_fet_vinasse.pdf

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0104-66321997000100002&script=sci_arttext

http://soil.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/900

enjoy your garden!